We on the other hand enjoy extra security when we are caged in a corner of the terminal 2 hours prior to boarding, and that after going through another body search.Profiling...
I remember when this 1st came about in the context of terrorism, there was so much debate, but as with everything else, humans are creatures of habit. We have simply gotten used to it, accepted it, and learnt to cope
Yes because I'm totally unaware it's happening elsewhere
true, but organized religion does claim a massive majority of it.
Check out the wars and atrocities of the last century. You'll be proven wrong buddy.
Why just the last century? Obviously with the advent of nationalism the world has changed, but it's not a secret that religion has been the driving force behind some of the worst wars and atrocities in history.
The only countries where Muslim on Muslim deaths are attributed is Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. They all have a common thread.
If you look at the direct cause only, that's probably (certainly) true. But suffice it to say that the Mid-East is one great mess largely because of the power struggles of the "Great Powers", particularly since the 18th/19th century. Oh, that's not to say that there wasn't struggle and strife there before (Mongols, Mameluks, Greeks, Muslims, Turks, Romans, etc, have all had a jolly old time), but this almost institutionalized state of chaos is largely a remnant of the Imperialism.
I can't remember putting the word "retarded" in there, but perhaps you can edit the post to correct this, as you already seem to have done in your own head, and I'll post the revised version.
Ok.
Do the Crusades count? The Thirty Years' War? The Taiping Rebellion, perhaps? The French Wars of.. what was it.. oh yes, religion. Oh, they definitely also had other aspects than the religious one, but there's no doubt that they were largely religious in nature.
check out human history turbaned one, instead of picking and choosing slivers of eras.
Here's what I don't understand, though. If you assert that some wars are started by nationalism and bigotry, but not religion, you're then suggesting that people aren't so involved with religion as these things, that it in effect doesn't matter as much as them. At the same time I've been in arguments on this very site where some people were furious that I dared suggest that religion wasn't inherently more important than any other issue people care about.
I agree. It's basically what I said in the post you quoted.
Yeah, I suppose it was. You've always struck me as one of the more thoughtful and moderate theists on here. Sometimes I have the bad habit of mentally grouping all of you together, perhaps attributing you arguments you never really had.
I understandYeah, I suppose it was. You've always struck me as one of the more thoughtful and moderate theists on here. Sometimes I have the bad habit of mentally grouping all of you together, perhaps attributing you arguments you never really had.
It's not easy being a godless and cynical bastard
I think you chose to ignore Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Algeria. Syria and Jordan also have troublesome recent past when it comes to mass murders. Other, non-Arab examples are also available, but there's no need to go further back to make a strong argument.
I think it's about time we all stopped patronizing the Muslims by arguing that if they still had this tyrant in charge all this mess perhaps would not have happened. That's perhaps factually true for Iraq, but now that they are given a platform on which to build a free society they keep themselves busy slaughtering each other. In addtition, despite the ill-effects of imperialism the nations involved in the ME and Asian areas under imperial influnce have had time to move on- some have whereas others haven't.
Are you in agreement there that if it wasn't for religion some of the worst atrocities would have been a lot harder to carry out?
Well that's certainly true (at least to a great extent) in the case of the Yugoslav civil war. I'd argue that during the creation of Croatian fascism in the 1930s the decisive impulse came from the Catholic church. In fact there was no other means of distinguishing between Serbs and Croats apart from their religious affiliation.
Most of them? Certainly. Most of them had nothing at all to do with religion. The World Wars, various stuff happening in China, most of the big European struggles between 1400 and 1800, etc. My point was just that some of them were largely religious, and quite a few others were made worse by the polarizing nature of religions.
Agreed.
Well, he's not Orthodox is he?
Nice one. Well I hope my visit to the holy land works miracles and cures me from that terrible diseaseToo bad, from a religious point of view...
That's exactly where god does her best to keep everybody happy.Nice one. Well I hope my visit to the holy land works miracles and cures me from that terrible disease
Religion in it's purest form and understood correctly would never allow such atrocities.
But when is it ever understood correctly?
Oh I agree entirely.
Unfortunately the scripts can be interpreted in any way you want them to. That's why clerics can justify both political compromise and genocide based on the same scripts.
True
But Mike, look how Constantine exploited that new, hot thing Christianity for his political purposes in basically replacing Roman polytheism with a monotheistic state religion. Historically speaking Christianity could have also very easily just died out during the first and second century.
The countries with the largest Muslims population Indonesia, Malaysia, China, parts of Russia, parts of Africa, have no records of any Muslim conquests. If for example if violent expansion of religion was the basis of conquests then India, where the Moghuls ruled for around 700 years does not explain Muslims being a significant minority.
Of course violent conquest isn't the only means of religions spreading, the other major one is spread along trade routes. The slow conversion of Indonesia to Islam is a good example of this, where local traders and royalty begun to adopt the religion in attempts to allow favourable relations with trading partners.
I agree Mike.
