Italian Serie A 2017/18

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

Full-backs/wing-backs have been really average for a while.

Abate and De Sciglio haven't fulfilled their early promise and Darmian and Zappacosta aren't great. The best options are probably Florenzi, who will probably be needed in central midfield because of how poor the options are there and Criscito, who has barely played for Italy while he's been at Zenit, although that might change now he's back in Italy.

The fact that the most reliable option at full-back/wing-back in recent years has probably been a utility man like Giaccherini says it all.

So true. Once we had the likes of Maldini, Di Chiara, Zambrotta and Benarrivo, all amazing players.

 

[giorno]

We actually have a number of interesting young players there, too bad they keep suffering big knee injuries

Conti, Spinazzola, Calabria and Florenzi on paper is a very good group

 

[Bepi]

Ok then, let’s play Mancini’s 4-3-3 for the start of his Euro 2018-2020 campaign, based on his history as a speculative but attacking-minded coach who favours big games experience and raw talent over mediocrity or consistency:

GK - Perin: if he plays 20-25 games for Juve, he will start ahead of Donnarumma (immature) and Sirigu (indifferent)

RB - Florenzi: energetic and experienced, ahead of Zappacosta (raw) and Calabria (immature)

CB - Bonucci: captain and first on the ball like a quarterback, ahead of Rugani (immature) and Caldara (inexperienced)

CB - Romagnoli: Bonucci’s club partner on the rise, ahead of Chiellini (past it) and Ogbonna (indifferent)

LB - Criscito: long international experience, ahead of Darmian (downed) and De Sciglio (indifferent)

RM - Barella: young Gattuso now at Cagliari, ahead of Cristante (raw) and Gagliardini (indifferent)

CM - Verratti: inconsistent but experienced, ahead of Jorginho (reliable) and Baselli (inexperienced)

LM - Bonaventura: here as an atypical quality midfielder, ahead of Pellegrini (slow) and Parolo (past it)

RW - Bernardeschi: quality winger also an AM, ahead of Berardi (inexperienced) and Candreva (past it)

ST - Balotelli: long international experience, ahead of Belotti (inexperienced) and Zaza (indifferent)

LW - Chiesa: hungry young gun at Fiorentina, ahead of Insigne (indifferent) and El Shaarawy (inconsistent)

 

[giorno]

You forgot Immobile but damn that is depressing to look at

 

[Ecstatic]

You forgot Immobile but damn that is depressing to look at

The most depressing thing is to look back 30 years ago.

WC 98 squad

1 GK Francesco Toldo 2 December 1971 (aged 26) 6 Fiorentina
12 GK Gianluca Pagliuca 18 December 1966 (aged 31) 34 Inter Milan
22 GK Gianluigi Buffon 28 January 1978 (aged 20) 2 Parma

2 DF Giuseppe Bergomi 22 December 1963 (aged 34) 78 Inter Milan
3 DF Paolo Maldini (Captain) 26 June 1968 (aged 29) 88 Milan
4 DF Fabio Cannavaro 13 September 1973 (aged 24) 14 Parma
5 DF Alessandro Costacurta 24 April 1966 (aged 32) 54 Milan
6 DF Alessandro Nesta 19 March 1976 (aged 22) 12 Lazio
7 DF Gianluca Pessotto 11 August 1970 (aged 27) 4 Juventus
8 DF Moreno Torricelli 23 January 1970 (aged 28) 6 Juventus

9 MF Demetrio Albertini 23 August 1971 (aged 26) 57 Milan
11 MF Dino Baggio 24 July 1971 (aged 26) 46 Parma
13 MF Sandro Cois 9 June 1972 (aged 26) 1 Fiorentina
14 MF Luigi Di Biagio 3 June 1971 (aged 27) 13 Roma
15 MF Angelo Di Livio 26 July 1966 (aged 31) 21 Juventus
16 MF Roberto Di Matteo 29 May 1970 (aged 28) 32 Chelsea
17 MF Francesco Moriero 31 March 1969 (aged 29) 3 Inter Milan

18 FW Roberto Baggio 18 February 1967 (aged 31) 48 Bologna
19 FW Filippo Inzaghi 9 August 1973 (aged 24) 4 Juventus
20 FW Enrico Chiesa 29 December 1970 (aged 27) 6 Parma
21 FW Christian Vieri 12 July 1973 (aged 24) 8 Atlético Madrid
10 FW Alessandro Del Piero 9 November 1974 (aged 23) 19 Juventus

And the following players were ignored:

- Montella: 20 goals in Serie A 97/98
- Mancini:12 assists in Serie A 97/98
- Totti: 10 assists in Serie A 97/98
- Marco Simone
- ...


I still don't understand why you stop to produce a high # of quality players nowadays... Unbelievable

 

[giorno]

I still don't understand why you stop to produce a high # of quality players nowadays... Unbelievable

We stopped playing football in the streets and started playing video games instead. Coaching at the youth level became more about the coaches than the kids. And new generations by and large lack the mentality to make it as pros. Maldini, Baggio, Totti, at 18 breaking into the first team had the hunger to work their asses off and the humility to think they'd done nothing yet. Most 18 yo nowadays when they break into the first team they feel and act like they made it

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

We stopped playing football in the streets and started playing video games instead. Coaching at the youth level became more about the coaches than the kids. And new generations by and large lack the mentality to make it as pros. Maldini, Baggio, Totti, at 18 breaking into the first team had the hunger to work their asses off and the humility to think they'd done nothing yet. Most 18 yo nowadays when they break into the first team they feel and act like they made it

We also develop more physical than technical players. We will never see the likes of Totti, Baggio and Del Piero again.

 

[giorno]

We also develop more physical than technical players. We will never see the likes of Totti, Baggio and Del Piero again.

It comes down to a combination of factors and it starts with Sacchi's revolution, but the biggest problem is youth coaches who want to look good to advance in their careers and are thus more interested in winning than developing players. Hence the bigger emphasis on physicality

The absurd part is that physicality was never one of our strong points and it isn't now. We're not like the germans or english. The result is we produce physical players that aren't actually capable of making a difference with it...

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

It comes down to a combination of factors and it starts with Sacchi's revolution, but the biggest problem is youth coaches who want to look good to advance in their careers and are thus more interested in winning than developing players. Hence the bigger emphasis on physicality

The absurd part is that physicality was never one of our strong points and it isn't now. We're not like the germans or english. The result is we produce physical players that aren't actually capable of making a difference with it...

So true. We are playing a game that is not ours. Look at how Sweden kept us at bay without any problem. The old national team with Baggio, Totti and Del Piero would have won at least 5-0.

 

[Ecstatic]

We stopped playing football in the streets and started playing video games instead. Coaching at the youth level became more about the coaches than the kids. And new generations by and large lack the mentality to make it as pros. Maldini, Baggio, Totti, at 18 breaking into the first team had the hunger to work their asses off and the humility to think they'd done nothing yet. Most 18 yo nowadays when they break into the first team they feel and act like they made it

France also has this mentality issue with some players:

- Ben Arfa 'I have the level of Messi and want to win the Ballon d'Or'
- A player like Kurzawa was really promising but he hasn't the appetite to learn, improve his skills and suffer. So, he won't play the World Cup
- Rabiot 'I don't want to play as a #6 to help my team' and doesn't like to do the dirty job off the ball. At the age of 17, he was above almost everybody but won't play the World Cup despite being more talented on paper than N'zonzi

These players will have a decent career but could have been - in theory - amongst the best of their generation.

Natural talent of Rabiot + mentality of Matuidi = Marco Tardelli
Natural talent of Matuidi + mentality of Rabiot = Mohamed 'Medo' Kamara

The case of Giroud is very interesting: a 2nd division player at the age of 24, a player limited in terms of technical skills and pace...but the 4th best scorer in the history of the NT. The right mentality.

 

[FootballHQ]

Insigne and Jorginho surely have to be starters?

I do like the look of Curtone from what I saw last season. Would be surprised if Chiesa jr is a starter ahead of him.

 

[damageinc.]

Insigne and Jorginho surely have to be starters?

I do like the look of Curtone from what I saw last season. Would be surprised if Chiesa jr is a starter ahead of him.

I don't get what's the connection between Cutrone and Chiesa? 2 different players with different roles. Chiesa is easily the most interesting young italian talent in Serie A.

 

[FootballHQ]

I don't get what's the connection between Cutrone and Chiesa? 2 different players with different roles. Chiesa is easily the most interesting young italian talent in Serie A.

I was thinking more Cutrone is main striker and Insigne floats off him in number 10 position.

 

[B&Wandmore]

Maybe they want 1 keeper for the league and 1 for the Champions League like Barca under Luis Enrique.

I really hope not, it would be a major cockup..... Szczesny was taken on the premise that he was n.1 and I am sure he would not be happy if he did not play either the league or CL. I just hope Perin comes knowing he will be n.2 and then in the future who knows but keepers need a hierarchy otherwise bad things will happen

 

[B&Wandmore]

Full-backs/wing-backs have been really average for a while.

Abate and De Sciglio haven't fulfilled their early promise and Darmian and Zappacosta aren't great. The best options are probably Florenzi, who will probably be needed in central midfield because of how poor the options are there and Criscito, who has barely played for Italy while he's been at Zenit, although that might change now he's back in Italy.

The fact that the most reliable option at full-back/wing-back in recent years has probably been a utility man like Giaccherini says it all.

Florenzi as a fullback is far from being the best option, both Darmian and De Sciglio are better than him. Roma is ruining Florenzi career by using him in that position where is less than average and would not play in any top team

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

I really hope not, it would be a major cockup..... Szczesny was taken on the premise that he was n.1 and I am sure he would not be happy if he did not play either the league or CL. I just hope Perin comes knowing he will be n.2 and then in the future who knows but keepers need a hierarchy otherwise bad things will happen

Yeah, don't like having 2 different goalies for 2 different competitions. The defence needs to get used to one.

 

[B&Wandmore]

We stopped playing football in the streets and started playing video games instead. Coaching at the youth level became more about the coaches than the kids. And new generations by and large lack the mentality to make it as pros. Maldini, Baggio, Totti, at 18 breaking into the first team had the hunger to work their asses off and the humility to think they'd done nothing yet. Most 18 yo nowadays when they break into the first team they feel and act like they made it

I am quite sure they have videogames in France, Spain, Germany and Argentina too....
But it is true that once kids would learn to play in the streets or in the church courts without going to soccer schools until much later and that allowed them to learn how to treat the ball while football schools in Italy tend to focus way too much on tactical duties since they are very young.
That though does not explain everything. Another major problem in my opinion is the number of non selectable immigrants we have in our lower division teams and youth teams. Sometimes you see serie B or primavera teams with hardly any Italians and since the naturalization is much harder in Italy than in France or Germany that translates into a much smaller pool of potential players available for the national teams.

 

[damageinc.]

Radja Nainggolan to Inter is almost done: 24 million + Santon + Zaniolo (both valued around 16 million).

 

[RedSky]

feck knows how they're going to line up next season with the amount of changes they're making. They seem to be linked with a dozen players a week.

 

[giorno]

Radja Nainggolan to Inter is almost done: 24 million + Santon + Zaniolo (both valued around 16 million).

FECKING GET IN!!!

Now to get rid of D'Ambrosio and bring in a couple good fullbacks

 

[Aboutreika18]

FECKING GET IN!!!

Now to get rid of D'Ambrosio and bring in a couple good fullbacks

Really can't understand how mediocre Santon's turned out. He shut Ronaldo out of the game when we played Inter at the San Siro in 2008/09 and looked like a real talent.

 

[damageinc.]

FECKING GET IN!!!

Now to get rid of D'Ambrosio and bring in a couple good fullbacks

LOL I see what you did there….

Santon

Nainggolan is the kind of player that we are missing since Stankovic.

Anyway D'Ambrosio can be a decent backup as right back and I think he will remain. There's still the need to replace Cancelo.

 

[giorno]

D'Ambrosio can't even control a ball. He shouldn't play for Inter, not even as backup

 

[B&Wandmore]

Radja Nainggolan to Inter is almost done: 24 million + Santon + Zaniolo (both valued around 16 million).

it seems a very bad deal for roma on the face of it, Santon is a joke and Zaniolo a good youngster but there is no way they are worth 16 million. I wonder why Roma decided to strengthen a direct opponent with a key player and also accepted a ridiculous evaluation for two players that will help Inter get out of its FPF problems, something does not add up or at Roma they drank too much.
Sorry to see that Inter is doing a very good transfer window with quite good players in the right place at good price, not their usual useless and inept management unfortunately.

 

[giorno]

Just wait for them to spunk 25 millions on Zappacosta

 

[Valerio]

Both are helping each other. Let me explain Roma needed a 30m of capital gains trough the selling of the players.
All that with the time limit of 30/06/2018. So they had to sell Nainggolan really fast and the player told them that since he was unwated by Roma he decided to go to Inter with Spalletti.
Roma hands were tied to accept anything. So Inter offered 24m cash and 2 players so this way even Inter could get a helping hand from Roma cause Inter needed 60m of capital gains (dunno the term in english but in Italian it's plusvalenze)
So yes Inter screwed Roma and there was nothing they could do.

 

[K2K]

Are Italians closely following this world cup or are they generally unbothered?

 

[giorno]

Are Italians closely following this world cup or are they generally unbothered?

Gialappa's band (the other italians will understand)

Otherwise i don't really care

 

[Valerio]

Not at all. Just the ones that actually likes to watch football in general. The World Cup without Italy wiped out the casuals.
Personally I'm watching most of the games. As I am in holiday I've missed only 2. One with Saudi Arabia cause I already knew what would happen...
And of course the best game so far Belgium 5-2 victory

 

[K2K]

Gialappa's band (the other italians will understand)

Otherwise i don't really care

You must be enjoying Germany's struggles .

 

[damageinc.]

Both are helping each other. Let me explain Roma needed a 30m of capital gains trough the selling of the players.
All that with the time limit of 30/06/2018. So they had to sell Nainggolan really fast and the player told them that since he was unwated by Roma he decided to go to Inter with Spalletti.
Roma hands were tied to accept anything. So Inter offered 24m cash and 2 players so this way even Inter could get a helping hand from Roma cause Inter needed 60m of capital gains (dunno the term in english but in Italian it's plusvalenze)
So yes Inter screwed Roma and there was nothing they could do.

I don't know where you get these info but everyone said 45m not 60m of "capital gains" (plusvalenze) for Inter for the ffp and this target is almost reached thanks for selling all the youngsters from the primavera + santon,kondogbia,etc.

 

[Valerio]

You'ew right my bad! Inter has to make 40m! I confused the fact that they made 67m or something around that of "capital gains".
That's why they can offer 24m cash to Roma. They needed 40m for Uefa FFP and they had the sum avaible for Nainggolan.
Anyway Inter made some amazing deals for his youth players. I mean not even starters from mid-rated teams are worth as much as Inter Primavera guys!
Everybody thought they had to sell someone to respect UEFA sanctions but they managed everything in a very clever way. Though you need someone helping you out.

 

[Markolan]

Are Italians closely following this world cup or are they generally unbothered?

This World Cup is a huge success in terms of audience imho.

For example, Most watched games:

- Brazil - Switzerland: 7.461.000 spectators, share 36%

- Argentina - Croatia: 7.288.000, share 34%

- Portugal - Spain: 7.027.000, share 33,33%

(Tunisia- England: 6.273.000, share 27,84%)

Compared to the UCL matches of the 2017-18 season (FTA):

The "most important" WC matches of the group stages have been more followed than Manchester City - Napoli or Real Madrid-Liverpool

 

[giorno]

Part of that is there's nothing else on tv these days, plus they're not competing directly against other games, but it's interesting. Looks like mediaset hit the jackpot this time(unlike their failed attempt with the CL)

 

[K2K]

This World Cup is a huge success in terms of audience imho.

For example, Most watched games:

- Brazil - Switzerland: 7.461.000 spectators, share 36%

- Argentina - Croatia: 7.288.000, share 34%

- Portugal - Spain: 7.027.000, share 33,33%

(Tunisia- England: 6.273.000, share 27,84%)

Compared to the UCL matches of the 2017-18 season (FTA):

The "most important" WC matches of the group stages have been more followed than Manchester City - Napoli or Real Madrid-Liverpool

That's great to know.

Hopefully you are back at the next one with a strong side.

 

[B&Wandmore]

You must be enjoying Germany's struggles .

I actually enjoyed much better how they screwed Sweden at the last minute with one man less and after a clear penalty denied
Memories of their match fixing with Denmark are still alive

Anyway even though it is sad not to see Italy at the WC, I am still enjoying it, it is quite entertaining and there are a few teams I like and would love to go far or to win like England, Colombia and Croatia

 

[B&Wandmore]

You'ew right my bad! Inter has to make 40m! I confused the fact that they made 67m or something around that of "capital gains".
That's why they can offer 24m cash to Roma. They needed 40m for Uefa FFP and they had the sum avaible for Nainggolan.
Anyway Inter made some amazing deals for his youth players. I mean not even starters from mid-rated teams are worth as much as Inter Primavera guys!
Everybody thought they had to sell someone to respect UEFA sanctions but they managed everything in a very clever way. Though you need someone helping you out.

I am not sure that is true because Inter cannot buy before July and has to recover 50-60 millions from sales before the end of June and despite all the youth sales to mid table teams (which are in some cases extremely suspicious for their overblown evaluations and are most likely fake) they still need more to get there so they cannot book nainggolan before the end of June and if they cannot do it, I cannot see how Roma can book the sale.
Creative accounting is a very bad habit of Italian clubs so all is possible but here I think it would go beyond the limits of what is legally acceptable. Anyway mark my words sooner or later somebody will start looking into these shady deals and another mess will happen (not just for Inter of course).

Besides Roma does not need, differently from Inter to sell by June 30th (and in fact they won't) becauses differently from Inter they passed UEFA test and they do not need to comply with the settlement agreement constraints. So the deal seems to be completely unbalanced in Inter favour, so much so that I think there must be some sort of behind the scene agreement, whether that is a credit on some future deal or something else I do not know, but terms are so ridiculous that it is hard to believe it is just due to Roma incompetence or to the (true) fact that something must have happened between Roma's management and the player.

 

[giorno]

It's creative accounting. Roma were actively trying to sell Ninja so they had little bargaining power. Accepting the overvaluation of santon and zanioll works for them because it allows them to make a bigger profit on sale and also doesn't decrease the total value of player assets by as much

Also, i know it was sweet to watch sweden get benatia'd, but imagine germany going out in the group stage...

 

[Valerio]

A new shame from Juventus
Prices of season tickets from 2012 after they built the new stadium up to now.
** Sorry I can't post pics yet
Increase from highest to cheapest seat from 2017/2018 to now

+500€ Est 1 C
+320€ Est 1 L
+200€ Est 2 C
+230€ Est 2 L
+240€ Family
+270€ Ovest 1 L
+235€ Ovest 2 A
+215€ Ovest 2 L
+155€ N/S-E 2 L
+100€ Nord & South

 

[B&Wandmore]

It's creative accounting. Roma were actively trying to sell Ninja so they had little bargaining power. Accepting the overvaluation of santon and zanioll works for them because it allows them to make a bigger profit on sale and also doesn't decrease the total value of player assets by as much

Also, i know it was sweet to watch sweden get benatia'd, but imagine germany going out in the group stage...

Yes I understand that was the case, but I think it is bad in the long term for the financial stability of the clubs and in any caso Roma strengthened a direct competitor, not sure they thought it thru