Ivan Toney Pt.2

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,042
O Neill should have asked Whitwell about any serious interest in him in that podcast interview the other day
 

United888

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 4, 2023
Messages
207
Toney is quality player but we have Hojlund, we are not in desperate to spend big on this guy. We can always wait until 2025 to get him for free or let other club overspend on a striker who's going to be 28 this year.
 

daba

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
793
Toney is quality player but we have Hojlund, we are not in desperate to spend big on this guy. We can always wait until 2025 to get him for free or let other club overspend on a striker who's going to be 28 this year.
That other club a.k.a Arsenal
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,042
Toney is quality player but we have Hojlund, we are not in desperate to spend big on this guy. We can always wait until 2025 to get him for free or let other club overspend on a striker who's going to be 28 this year.
Yeah can't see where Utd would play him with Rasmus leading the line,let's face it Erik has no intention of going old school and playing two up top.
 

United888

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 4, 2023
Messages
207
Yeah can't see where Utd would play him with Rasmus leading the line,let's face it Erik has no intention of going old school and playing two up top.
To be fair he did it once vs Brighton in 4312 this season but we didn't have the right profile midfielder to play this system and we were bullied. Need Seedorf and Gattuso type of CM that has great stamina and capable to help the midfield and full back.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,042
To be fair he did it once vs Brighton in 4312 this season but we didn't have the right profile midfielder to play this system and we were bullied. Need Seedorf and Gattuso type of CM that has great stamina and capable to help the midfield and full back.
Interesting, so who could we get that is capable of being that type of CM not that I think Erik would entertain playing that formation again
 

didz

Full Member
Joined
May 17, 2014
Messages
1,131
To be fair he did it once vs Brighton in 4312 this season but we didn't have the right profile midfielder to play this system and we were bullied. Need Seedorf and Gattuso type of CM that has great stamina and capable to help the midfield and full back.
Also did it a few times with Ajax in Europe. That game against Dortmund seems to stand out.

He only ever really uses it in very specific situations though, notably when other teams build up deep in their own half and through the middle. In that Brighton game, it was working until their centre backs fanned out so they could just play around the diamond.
 

foolsgold

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
1,644
Location
Aotearoa
We need a striker but I don't think we have the money for Toney at 40m - 50m unless we can sell first. Next transfer window is going to be funded by departures.

Honestly though, toney just doesn't look like a Manchester United striker for me. I get Lukaku vibes, he may score a decent number of individual goals, but he'll make our overall attack worse.
 

Green55

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 4, 2023
Messages
23
Toney is quality player but we have Hojlund, we are not in desperate to spend big on this guy. We can always wait until 2025 to get him for free or let other club overspend on a striker who's going to be 28 this year.
I think he'd do well at Utd. He has a confidence about him, similar to what you could see with James Maddison at Leicester, that I think you need to succeed at a top club. He has a good all round game and has always stepped up at every level.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,365
O Neill should have asked Whitwell about any serious interest in him in that podcast interview the other day
I came across to O'Neill podcast interview and jeez he's a good interviewer. The worst by far are the Stretford Paddock guys who spend like 90% of the interview speaking about puns, the weather in Manchester, how to cook roast potatoes and trying to push the impression that Howson is a mix between Sir Alex and John Rambo. Goldbridge pretty much outed his source at the club recently which I thought was a bit stupid for a 15 minute interview of generic nonsense. O'Neill on the other hand is right to the point, no ego, no BS and he asks what the fans want to know. I'd love to see the royal rumble of interviews tbh ie O'Neill and the slippery snake Ben Jacobs. It would be interesting to see how a straight talker like O'Neill would react to someone who simply overwhelm you with words without ever give you any real information.
 

DanClancy

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,355
Toney is quality player but we have Hojlund, we are not in desperate to spend big on this guy. We can always wait until 2025 to get him for free or let other club overspend on a striker who's going to be 28 this year.
Chelsea, Arsenal and possibly Spurs will be in for him so he's not going to be cheap unless he digs his heels in and only wants to go too a certain team which won't be United as we've Hojlund whilst he's guaranteed first choice at Arsenal & Chelsea.
 

Brightonian

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
14,056
Location
Juanderlust
Fine as cheapish solid back-up, who would accept time on the bench in order to be playing at a club of United's stature, to avoid the risk of overplaying Hojlund.

Absolutely not as an expensive striker whose pricetag would put pressure on a coach to play him too much.

He has two PL seasons ever under his belt. He's 28, so probably has two seasons of peak at the top level, especially under the scrutiny he'd get at United. A big fee would be terrible business sense.
 

daba

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
793
We need a striker but I don't think we have the money for Toney at 40m - 50m unless we can sell first. Next transfer window is going to be funded by departures.

Honestly though, toney just doesn't look like a Manchester United striker for me. I get Lukaku vibes, he may score a decent number of individual goals, but he'll make our overall attack worse.
Disagree, Lukaku is basically a big physical poacher. Toney has more to his overall game in terms of link up, flick ons etc.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,042
Chelsea, Arsenal and possibly Spurs will be in for him so he's not going to be cheap unless he digs his heels in and only wants to go too a certain team which won't be United as we've Hojlund whilst he's guaranteed first choice at Arsenal & Chelsea.
Yeah that's exactly why I don't think he would be pushing to join Utd as we already have a number 9
 
Last edited:

The Urban Goose

Full Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2019
Messages
1,332
Disagree, Lukaku is basically a big physical poacher. Toney has more to his overall game in terms of link up, flick ons etc.
Lukaku was the weakest "physical" player I've ever seen. More little girl than grown ass man.

Toney is a colossal cockwomble and after his betting shenanigans is not a player I could ever support, so he can do one too.
 

UnitedSofa

You'll Never Walk Away
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
6,611
Lukaku was the weakest "physical" player I've ever seen. More little girl than grown ass man.

Toney is a colossal cockwomble and after his betting shenanigans is not a player I could ever support, so he can do one too.
Ridiculous :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 

daba

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
793
Lukaku was the weakest "physical" player I've ever seen. More little girl than grown ass man.

Toney is a colossal cockwomble and after his betting shenanigans is not a player I could ever support, so he can do one too.
I’m not pro signing Toney tbf. Just arguing that Toney is a different player to Lukaku.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,042
I definitely think he has the confidence to play for us,however will go somewhere in London whether that be Arsenal/Chelsea/Spurs
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
34,042
Dunno. Hojlund seems to be banging them in now. I can’t see Toney going anywhere to be a rotation option.
Yeah exactly why I see him going somewhere he can be the main main leading the line
 

Maluco

Last Man Standing 3 champion 2019/20
Joined
Jan 4, 2014
Messages
5,623
Another 12 months and Hojlund will be a better option than him. It would be unwise to spend big money on a striker when we need another proper midfielder, a reliable and fit CB and another wide option.

A cheap, experienced backup is the way to go now. Maybe Callum Wilson if Newcastle end up selling him cheap.
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
30,938
Another 12 months and Hojlund will be a better option than him. It would be unwise to spend big money on a striker when we need another proper midfielder, a reliable and fit CB and another wide option.

A cheap, experienced backup is the way to go now. Maybe Callum Wilson if Newcastle end up selling him cheap.
Rather we try and sign Sesko or another young player like him and have 2 promising strikers.
 

daba

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
793
Rather we try and sign Sesko or another young player like him and have 2 promising strikers.
Just don’t think Sesko will want to be competing with Højlund, especially if Hojlund continues his form for the rest of the season. If Chelsea are after him then the prospect of competing Nicholas Jackson is probably a better option for him.

Someone like Guirassy would be perfect in my opinion, as at his stage of career I think he’d be content as a rotation option at a top top club. The other option is we pluck a new cheap Javier Hernandez type out of somewhere. I was hoping Marcus Leonardo would be that but he’s joined the Benfica pipeline sadly.
 

gajender

Full Member
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
3,710
Just don’t think Sesko will want to be competing with Højlund, especially if Hojlund continues his form for the rest of the season. If Chelsea are after him then the prospect of competing Nicholas Jackson is probably a better option for him.

Someone like Guirassy would be perfect in my opinion, as at his stage of career I think he’d be content as a rotation option at a top top club. The other option is we pluck a new cheap Javier Hernandez type out of somewhere. I was hoping Marcus Leonardo would be that but he’s joined the Benfica pipeline sadly.
How about bringing someone younger who is adept at playing all across the front line at good level might need some scouting but would be better option in long run .
 

CM10

Full Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
7,219
I don't agree with the sentiment that we shouldn't go for another striker of reputation on the basis we have Hojlund. City have Haaland and Alvarez. It should be normal to have multiple good players challenging for one position at a club vying for the big trophies.

Whether that striker is Ivan Toney is a different story. He's clearly a good player ready for the next step but I'm not sure I'd want us signing him unless the fee is highly subsidised. He'll be 28 with a year left on his contract by the time the next transfer window comes around, and he also seems like a bit of a nobhead.
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
52,122
Location
Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysa
Just don’t think Sesko will want to be competing with Højlund, especially if Hojlund continues his form for the rest of the season. If Chelsea are after him then the prospect of competing Nicholas Jackson is probably a better option for him.

Someone like Guirassy would be perfect in my opinion, as at his stage of career I think he’d be content as a rotation option at a top top club. The other option is we pluck a new cheap Javier Hernandez type out of somewhere. I was hoping Marcus Leonardo would be that but he’s joined the Benfica pipeline sadly.
The feyeenoord lad Santiago Giminez would fit that bill
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
52,122
Location
Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysa
Another 12 months and Hojlund will be a better option than him. It would be unwise to spend big money on a striker when we need another proper midfielder, a reliable and fit CB and another wide option.

A cheap, experienced backup is the way to go now. Maybe Callum Wilson if Newcastle end up selling him cheap.
You'd rather bag a Guirassy. Wilson for all his quality is extremely injury prone.
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
52,122
Location
Founder of IhateMakeleles.org and Gourcufffanboysa
I don't agree with the sentiment that we shouldn't go for another striker of reputation on the basis we have Hojlund. City have Haaland and Alvarez. It should be normal to have multiple good players challenging for one position at a club vying for the big trophies.

Whether that striker is Ivan Toney is a different story. He's clearly a good player ready for the next step but I'm not sure I'd want us signing him unless the fee is highly subsidised. He'll be 28 with a year left on his contract by the time the next transfer window comes around, and he also seems like a bit of a nobhead.
A Toney makes sense due to epl proven, having more experience than Hoijlund, is a big game type with a big persona, with something to prove. Only the price due to his age seems prohibitive.
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
30,938
I don't agree with the sentiment that we shouldn't go for another striker of reputation on the basis we have Hojlund. City have Haaland and Alvarez. It should be normal to have multiple good players challenging for one position at a club vying for the big trophies.

Whether that striker is Ivan Toney is a different story. He's clearly a good player ready for the next step but I'm not sure I'd want us signing him unless the fee is highly subsidised. He'll be 28 with a year left on his contract by the time the next transfer window comes around, and he also seems like a bit of a nobhead.
Sesko has a reputation
 

Bwuk

Full Member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
17,241
I don't agree with the sentiment that we shouldn't go for another striker of reputation on the basis we have Hojlund. City have Haaland and Alvarez. It should be normal to have multiple good players challenging for one position at a club vying for the big trophies.

Whether that striker is Ivan Toney is a different story. He's clearly a good player ready for the next step but I'm not sure I'd want us signing him unless the fee is highly subsidised. He'll be 28 with a year left on his contract by the time the next transfer window comes around, and he also seems like a bit of a nobhead.
Alvarez can play multiple positions though.

If Alvarez was benched because of Haaland every week, he'd of left by now.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
37,331
Alvarez can play multiple positions though.

If Alvarez was benched because of Haaland every week, he'd of left by now.
People won’t like to hear it but Rashford is our Alvarez. We might have wanted a striker on loan in January for a struggling Hojlund but we don’t need another striker if he’s playing like this every week
 

daba

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
793
How about bringing someone younger who is adept at playing all across the front line at good level might need some scouting but would be better option in long run .
Sorry yep I actually meant to add that in my post but forgot. I think that is why we are looking at someone like Zirkzee as an option as he can play multiple roles.

Who else can play across the front line would you say that we should be looking at?
 

daba

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
793
I don't agree with the sentiment that we shouldn't go for another striker of reputation on the basis we have Hojlund. City have Haaland and Alvarez. It should be normal to have multiple good players challenging for one position at a club vying for the big trophies.

Whether that striker is Ivan Toney is a different story. He's clearly a good player ready for the next step but I'm not sure I'd want us signing him unless the fee is highly subsidised. He'll be 28 with a year left on his contract by the time the next transfer window comes around, and he also seems like a bit of a nobhead.
You’re forgetting Alvarez signed up 6 months before Haaland joined. I expect he wasn’t ecstatic when that happened but luckily he has the flexibility to fill in other roles. And Pep has managed him well to give him minutes in multiple positions, even keeping Foden out of the team for large parts of last season.

Hojlund is effectively our Haaland in this sense so we now have the tough job of convincing someone to come in as his back-up/rotation option. Some will argue that we should have two people properly challenging and competing, which for the record I’m not against, I just think it’s a very hard sell to a Toney or Sesko who will have offers from other big clubs with easier routes to a starting position.
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
33,521
I don't agree with the sentiment that we shouldn't go for another striker of reputation on the basis we have Hojlund. City have Haaland and Alvarez. It should be normal to have multiple good players challenging for one position at a club vying for the big trophies.

Whether that striker is Ivan Toney is a different story. He's clearly a good player ready for the next step but I'm not sure I'd want us signing him unless the fee is highly subsidised. He'll be 28 with a year left on his contract by the time the next transfer window comes around, and he also seems like a bit of a nobhead.
I think the "problem" we have is Rasmus is now showing the form to be the starting no.9. You can't/don't blow a big budget on an Ivan Toney to be rotational, or 'competition' as others have put -- unless we have the budget for it.

I also don't really get the links with Zirkzee or someone like that. Not sure another young no.9 works for profiles, unless we can get one on the cheap.

I think we'll ultimately bargain bin shop a little bit with someone whose age is in that sort of 27-31 y.o bracket for someone who has a decent enough goalscoring record with a bit of pedigree. Type of player who has played a decent chunk of European football and/or plays in a lesser league but for a big team. Someone like Taremi, who we were linked to, who is now joining Inter on a free.
 

CM10

Full Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
7,219
Alvarez can play multiple positions though.

If Alvarez was benched because of Haaland every week, he'd of left by now.
You’re forgetting Alvarez signed up 6 months before Haaland joined. I expect he wasn’t ecstatic when that happened but luckily he has the flexibility to fill in other roles. And Pep has managed him well to give him minutes in multiple positions, even keeping Foden out of the team for large parts of last season.

Hojlund is effectively our Haaland in this sense so we now have the tough job of convincing someone to come in as his back-up/rotation option. Some will argue that we should have two people properly challenging and competing, which for the record I’m not against, I just think it’s a very hard sell to a Toney or Sesko who will have offers from other big clubs with easier routes to a starting position.
That's fair. Maybe I should've specified forward rather than striker in my initial post - Liverpool have a similar situation with Jota as a reliable squad player who can come in and out of the team as required.

Richarlison is starting to look like that player for Spurs now too. They spent a long time trying to go down the route of bringing in a back up player to be subservient to Kane when I think they would've been better off trying to get a multi-functional player who can operate across the forward line. That sort of player would be my preference if we can find one.
 

pogbasformerbarber

Full Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2022
Messages
435
Even when Hojlund wasn't scoring I greatly enjoyed watching him play. Unless we're looking at Toney as a solid back up I don't want to take any minutes away from our #11...
 

gajender

Full Member
Joined
May 7, 2016
Messages
3,710
Sorry yep I actually meant to add that in my post but forgot. I think that is why we are looking at someone like Zirkzee as an option as he can play multiple roles.

Who else can play across the front line would you say that we should be looking at?
Joao pedro would fit the bill but him being now at Brighton should rule him out due to finances ,as I said Scouts have their work cut out for this one I am afraid .