Maybe the EPL was outdated back then, too?You’ll get more luck acting like a complete self-righteous pr** elsewhere than a United forumSir Alex Ferguson, to you, won the PL in his last season. Outdated
Like it or not, Ferguson was not as good tactically and not as obsessed with details as the new generation of top managers. Guardiola's Barca dominated United almost at will and so would the current top teams such as City, Liverpool or recently Arsenal. I mean, isn't recommending David Moyes as his successor enough evidence that he misjudged how the EPL would develop? As said, that takes nothing away from Ferguson's legacy or accomplishments - he stood as among his contemporaries and it is an amazing achievement that he remained at the top for so long. But it is not disrespectful to acknowledge that the football he played wouldn't be successful anymore. Eventually, Guardiola and Klopp will be experience the same. Everything comes to an end. Two of the positive examples you named have played less than 350 minutes for you this season and we're in April. I mean, it's great that Mainoo and Garnacho are playing well for you but if you think that makes United a great environment for young players, what should I say to you? The record I posted and cases like Sancho in particular will have every young player you're interested in think twice before joining you.
Then why were you so disappointed in him?
It's the combination of CL finalist in 2011 and champion two of the last three seasons. Football must have been relieved when that outdated manager retired.You’ll get more luck acting like a complete self-righteous pr** elsewhere than a United forum
It's actually ridiculous how people are so clueless about SAF.
That poster is pretty terrible in general considering their dogmatic views on football, but this attempt at wummery on a topic he clearly doesn't know about is quite amusing. Over his last 4 seasons Fergie won 2 leagues, went to 2 CL finals (losing against a team absolutely everyone lost to and is widely considered as the best/one of the best teams in history), got knocked out in his last season mainly due to a very dubious call in a tie we were dominating. He regularly changed his assistants to keep things fresh, and adapted over 35+ years in management to win absolutely everything and everywhere he was a manager. He would have adapted to this current era of football with no issues as he was a genius of a leader - people act as if the last 10 years of football were a reinvention of the sport, when it's basically cyclical with different trends coming back, enhanced by advances in sports science and technology.
As you said he is a wum. Sometimes I get it because the caf is always talking shit about the Bundesliga but questioning SAF's abilities during his last years when he arguably had the weakest set of players at his disposal and still performed at an elite level.
Didn’t watch enough of him before the move, evidently. Or I underestimated how the move would affect him. I thought a guy who was putting up domestic double digit goals and assists was a sure thing, even with your league tax. Such is life.
Maybe these posters started to understand football only from last 8-10 years and have no clue about SAF.
Let's hope some clubs are as blind and hopeful as some of our fans and put in a bid in summer
I know what his MO is. He disguises a lot of crap behind long winded posts with little actual substance.
Or maybe you just don't notice his good plays. You cited a bunch of stats but Sancho also had most passes into the penalty area of all Dortmund players (6, second place: 3), he had most progressive carries and the highest progressive carrying distance among Dortmund's offensive players, 88% pass completion and so forth. Too bad he didn't beat his full back a couple of times to then play a passionate cross into no man's land.
That sounds much better to me
Okay, you actually are clueless. Reciting click-bait media headlines as fact doesn’t make it so. The sheer disrepectMaybe the EPL was outdated back then, too?
Two of the positive examples you named have played less than 350 minutes for you this season and we're in April. I mean, it's great that Mainoo and Garnacho are playing well for you but if you think that makes United a great environment for young players, what should I say to you? The record I posted and cases like Sancho in particular will have every young player you're interested in think twice before joining you.
But to be honest, I don't really care that much. My point was rather that the assessment of player performances is pretty off in here. I've seen countless times that a player had a good game, recycling possession well, etc., and was later on criticized for being a "nothing player" because he didn't play spectacularly enough, especially when his team lost. But that's how football is played these days. People get frustrated with Sancho because they want him to take on the fullback all the time but don't realize that the "always passing back" he does helps the team more than forcing his way into blind alleys. The days of Giggs, Nani and co. are gone, wingers play differently these days.
Additionally, from 06/07 through to his retirement, Fergie won all but two league titles. One he lost by a point, the other on goal difference. He also reached three of four CL finals between 2008 and 2011, winning one of them.
Yes, all this crap about "EPL fans don't know anything, they love only crosses" nonsense, guess which teams are in top 5 for total crosses in PL in last 5 seasons? Yes, the genius Klopp and Pep.
Aren't crosses low and on the ground crosses the most efficient source of goals? I seem to remember something like that because a few years ago City had an incredible amount of goals from crosses and I think Opta had an analysis about it.
Yes, few think it's a quickest way to lose possession but yeah, low crosses and cut backs are very hard to defend.
What exactly was disprespectful? That I said a 70+ year old manager after having been in the game for almost 40 years wasn't exactly a pioneer of the game anymore at the time of his retirement? Come onOkay, you actually are clueless. Reciting click-bait media headlines as fact doesn’t make it so. The sheer disrepect
You guys are very sensitive when it comes to Ferguson. It wasn't even criticism since it is just completely natural. You still don't get the point. It is not about crosses or not, they can be a valuable way of breaking down defenses. It is about ball progression, ball retention, etc., all that type of stuff that helps your team but is completely underrated in here as evidenced by the assessment of Sancho's performances. Look how his performance against Atletico gets criticized in here although it was a pretty decent one with lots of important plays, among them some that set up very good goal scoring opportunities. If people don't see this type of stuff they either chose to ignore it (meaning they're agenda driven) or they don't understand how important those plays are. Both not very flattering.
I bloody hope so
What does this have to do with anything? You’re yelling at clouds, feeling precious because our fans don’t agree with you.
I mean it absolutely wasn't what you said. You said he was "a bit outdated" (he wasn't) and that his brand of football wasn't competitive at the highest level (it was).
Feeling a bit grim giving him reception to be honest. Nightmare blunt rotation if we can get Dumbstar and the Man Utd Man City/pep fan involved
I'm annoyed because people (cynically in some cases) criticize a player I rate for an actually good performance. And it is not the first time that happens so what's wrong with pointing that out? This forum is for discussions after all.
Erm, do you understand what the word competitive means?
Dumbstar is witty tbf, this guy is just bore.
Because it was a bit outdated. I don't even get what's so controversial about that. If you've seen both Guardiola and Ferguson teams, it is clear as day that the latter never displayed the same level of organization and systemization as Guardiola's did. They were more individualistic and less robotic. Most modern coaches are control freaks, dictating how players behave in almost all phases of play and limiting their freedoms drastically. Guardiola is certainly the most extreme example of this but almost all current top coaches from Klopp to Arteta are similar - the overarching system is most important and the players have to adapt to that. Ferguson wasn't like this. Not as idealistic and not as dogmatic.
You just compared Sancho to Bernado Silva one of the best players in the league and thought you really did something huh
Outdated isn't a thing in sport. And the idea that a currently competitive team is somehow outdated borders on idiocy. Especially when outside of some very specific aspects of sport nearly nothing is new in Football, since you used systematization and organization as examples you will to go back to the likes of Rappan or if you generous Sebes which puts us anywhere between a century and 70 years ago.
That's the most accurate description of United's current brand of football I've read in here
Maybe. But he was 70 years old at the time of his retirement, it was perfectly fine that he was a bit outdated after 30+ years at the top. Takes nothing away from his legacy that the brand of football he stood for wasn't competitive anymore at the highest level. Nowadays it is all about controlling games, dominating the ball and patiently creating goal scoring situations yet it seems the club and its fans don't want to see that.
I think you’ll find winning a title by 11 points is a sure fire sign you are not competitive.
Also one of the hardest working players in the league as well being an incredible technician. The arrogance in every post as if we're half-wits who just want kick and rush football from the 1980s, if we could only appreciate the subtle brilliance of a guy who did nothing in 2 and a half years at the club and who put in an admittedly decent but unremarkable performance last night.
You know what. Presenting your ridiculous opinion, which is factually wrong with such pomp and arrogance is astonishing, frankly. Other posters have already presented the fact as to why you are so very wrong in your pseudo-intellectual long winded post. Selv-congratulatory/masturbatory (pick whichever fits better) smugness while being wrong is a pretty disdainful look.What exactly was disprespectful? That I said a 70+ year old manager after having been in the game for almost 40 years wasn't exactly a pioneer of the game anymore at the time of his retirement? Come on
You still don't get the point. It is not about crosses or not, they can be a valuable way of breaking down defenses. It is about ball progression, ball retention, etc., all that type of stuff that helps your team but is completely underrated in here as evidenced by the assessment of Sancho's performances. Look how his performance against Atletico gets criticized in here although it was a pretty decent one with lots of important plays, among them some that set up very good goal scoring opportunities. If people don't see this type of stuff they either chose to ignore it (meaning they're agenda driven) or they don't understand how important those plays are. Both not very flattering.
Yeah, that was exactly what I wanted to imply, you got it.
Come on, you know that this is nonsense. Of course sport changes. Klopp's gegenpressing style is so demanding that maintaining it over an entire season would have been impossible in the 90s or even early 00s as the players weren't fit enough back then. And then there's also the economic side. Football has grown so much that clubs can afford much better academies, bigger coaching teams, more in-depth scouting and performance analytics and so forth. You could go on and on and on. The ideas may remain the same in principle but there are so many enablers and facilitators that such a big sport changes almost from season to season. For what it's worth, what Guardiola and Klopp are doing would not have been possible 10 or maybe even just 5 years prior to their breakthrough seasons.
Read the posts of your fellow top reds, I've been making these points when the notion we could ever win a league title was still completely ridiculous
Ten Hag basically asked him to bring his tools and Sancho said no.
Yeah he demanded an apology or similar. While I'm not saying Sancho was right, if he thought he was right then he didn't actually down tools or refuse to play. Ten Hag rightly or wrongly froze him out.
