Jadon Sancho Borussia Dortmund loan watch (Has ended ten Hag)

[Zehner]

Davies is extremely easy to get past:

He was in the 80% range before he played against Sancho Jokes aside, it goes without saying that Sancho was underwhelming in the EPL, especially in terms of dribbling, but EPL full backs are not the superhuman athletes many describe them as either. And even if they were, Sancho was never a physical dribbler, he gets past opponents with body feints and close control, not explosiveness or strength. So the reasoning that he can only do it outside of England is illogical to me.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Hopefully we can get something decent for him this summer.

 

[Ish]

He has a shit attitude on and off the pitch. Regardless of how he plays in Dortmund or his relationship with ETH, the sooner he fecks off the better. No manager will ever be able to rely on him.

This.

And please no quotes from Zehner, that guy is delusional and a pain in the ass for all of us, no matter where we come from.

 

[giorno]

it goes without saying that Sancho was underwhelming in the EPL, especially in terms of dribbling, but EPL full backs are not the superhuman athletes many describe them as either.

They are, on average, compared to the rest, but the bigger factor are the refs

And even if they were, Sancho was never a physical dribbler, he gets past opponents with body feints and close control, not explosiveness or strength. So the reasoning that he can only do it outside of England is illogical to me.

He still relies on speed and explosiveness quite a bit. The biggest difference is outside the PL defenders have to play off him while he tries to wrong foot them. In the PL, he drops a shoulder feint and the defender just body checks him off the ball

 

[Red in STL]

They are, on average, compared to the rest, but the bigger factor are the refs

He still relies on speed and explosiveness quite a bit. The biggest difference is outside the PL defenders have to play off him while he tries to wrong foot them. In the PL, he drops a shoulder feint and the defender just body checks him off the ball

Not 2 words I'd use to describe Sanchos' abilities

 

[giorno]

Not 2 words I'd use to describe Sanchos' abilities

Yep, that's the issue

 

[jasT1981]

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MUFC's financial fair play position has received a boost this week after Borussia Dortmund's qualification for the Champions League semi-finals triggered another payment as part of Jadon Sancho's loan deal. Dortmund paid an up-front fee of €3.5million to take Sancho on loan in January, with a further €4m in potential add-ons. A United source said a "significant" bonus has since been activated after their unlikely journey to the semi-finals of the Champions League

 

[Zehner]

They are, on average, compared to the rest, but the bigger factor are the refs

He still relies on speed and explosiveness quite a bit. The biggest difference is outside the PL defenders have to play off him while he tries to wrong foot them. In the PL, he drops a shoulder feint and the defender just body checks him off the ball

I think that's oversimplifying it a bit. 1 on 1 defending is all about slowing the opponent down as it is incredibly easy to beat a defender who challenges you first. So you close the space as much as possible without offering him to go past you on either side easily and wait for pressing triggers (e. g. a bad touch). That's when players like Vinicius are pretty much "uncatchable" because he can outran everybody (except for Kyle Walker). Sancho instead dribbles at the defenders more cautiously, makes a few body feints, forcing them to reposition and waits for them to misplace a foot while doing so. That also gives team mates time to make runs inbehind or come towards him so even if you cover all spaces he could dribble into, he can still exploit a small passing lane with a quick flick pass.

Watch the scene at 0:40:

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Sancho changed directions a couple of times without any risk of losing the ball, Molina adjusted but a very tight lane for a one two opened up and he overplayed four (!) Atletico players. At 1:05 he has the ball in a deep position and isn't attacked so he plays a line breaking pass for the goal, again overplaying four Atletico defender. However, it also shows how reliant he is on being surrounded with movement and players who he can link up with in tight areas. In contrast, a player like Rashford can work in isolation since he can always rely on his pace and core stability.

 

[giorno]

The big difference between the PL and other competitions is in the PL, defenders can defend on the man, whereas everywhere else they have to defend on the ball

Sancho had exactly one "real" successful dribble in that video, where he beat a defender and took him out of the play, and it was because the defender mistimed the challenge. In PL most of the time the defender would wait for Sancho to make a move than body him up

The point about Sancho needing runners around him is true and it's always been the case. I think he's not particuparly suited to the PL, but he's certainly entirely unsuited to Manchester United. Before even getting into the lack of professionalism

 

[Zehner]

The big differencd between the PL and other competitions is in the PL, defenders can defend on the man, whereas everywhere else they have to defend on the ball

No PL defender defends on the man against City, though. They chase shadows for 90 minutes instead. The physicality of the EPL is by choice not by the rules, IMO. If your movement is good enough, you don't need athleticism. Or at least not to the same extent.

 

[giorno]

No PL defender defends on the man against City, though.

They do. It just doesn't work because City's players don't let them

If your movement is good enough, you don't need athleticism. Or at least not to the same extent.

Depends, but the best PL sides certainly play a bunch of hyper athletic freaks

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

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[Red4Ever]

Well yeah they both could have did more to sort it out instead of what did happen.

true

 

[Vault Dweller]

Ten Hag basically asked him to bring his tools and Sancho said no.

very good.

 

[LilienFan]

The big difference between the PL and other competitions is in the PL, defenders can defend on the man, whereas everywhere else they have to defend on the ball

Sancho had exactly one "real" successful dribble in that video, where he beat a defender and took him out of the play, and it was because the defender mistimed the challenge. In PL most of the time the defender would wait for Sancho to make a move than body him up

The point about Sancho needing runners around him is true and it's always been the case. I think he's not particuparly suited to the PL, but he's certainly entirely unsuited to Manchester United. Before even getting into the lack of professionalism

Exactly. Sancho does not have the acceleration or close control to dribble past smart defenders from a standstill.

Sancho is a player that would be much better suited to a ball dominant combination side. Who is playing 1-2 combinations with him at United, when 1) ETH does not play that over-lapping style and 2) nobody on United has the pass control 3) the knowledge and willingness to make the runs.

So what Sancho really boils down to for United (besides the other stuff) is the question which kind of football does the new coach want to play?

He´s not a better counterattacking player than Rashford or Garnacho, but he´s a lot better at combination play than any other winger at United. In an alternate Unitedverse it might be him and Elanga on the wings linking up with the fullbacks and midfielders.

That again all boils down to the core problem at United: philosophy and why it´s so important to define your identity as a club first. Alonso could not have done what he did, if there was not already a clear set-up in place. Then Leverkusen picked a coach in Alonso that suited their philosophy and Alonso picked them, cause he recognized that the club suited his ideas, had enough existing talent and sufficient funds to strengthen the squad.

Another of United´s core problem is to recognize their current place in the pecking order. The elite players/coaches simply do not go to United. You have to accept that fact. They get the same money elsewhere with much better working conditions. You can either continue to overpay washed-up players looking for a final payday that the other top clubs don´t want anymore or you do it the right (but hard and long) way. United have to rebuild their reputation like a Liverpool under Klopp or Arsenal under Arteta, only then you have a shot at the Rices and Kanes of the world.

 

[Smores]

Exactly. Sancho does not have the acceleration or close control to dribble past smart defenders from a standstill.

Sancho is a player that would be much better suited to a ball dominant combination side. Who is playing 1-2 combinations with him at United, when 1) ETH does not play that over-lapping style and 2) nobody on United has the pass control 3) the knowledge and willingness to make the runs.

So what Sancho really boils down to for United (besides the other stuff) is the question which kind of football does the new coach want to play?

He´s not a better counterattacking player than Rashford or Garnacho, but he´s a lot better at combination play than any other winger at United. In an alternate Unitedverse it might be him and Elanga on the wings linking up with the fullbacks and midfielders.

That again all boils down to the core problem at United: philosophy and why it´s so important to define your identity as a club first. Alonso could not have done what he did, if there was not already a clear set-up in place. Then Leverkusen picked a coach in Alonso that suited their philosophy and Alonso picked them, cause he recognized that the club suited his ideas, had enough existing talent and sufficient funds to strengthen the squad.

Another of United´s core problem is to recognize their current place in the pecking order. The elite players/coaches simply do not go to United. You have to accept that fact. They get the same money elsewhere with much better working conditions. You can either continue to overpay washed-up players looking for a final payday that the other top clubs don´t want anymore or you do it the right (but hard and long) way. United have to rebuild their reputation like a Liverpool under Klopp or Arsenal under Arteta, only then you have a shot at the Rices and Kanes of the world.

I mean it's the exact same issue with every player we've signed from Dortmund. You cant sign players suited to a completely different system and just expect them to work.

As fans we keep expecting that United will transform into a more team based side with the components you mention but it hasn't happened.

Sancho being a tit is a separate discussion but I think the dislike has now meant he's just disregarded as shite rather than a poor fit.

 

[NewGlory]

- spends nights playing video games, oversleeps and is late to training
- couldnt be bothered to play for the team and sat on his ass for months instead of apologizing
- isn't anything close to the salary being paid. Not sure is even good enough for EPL

why the feck would I want such player back? I pray somebody wants to buy him so we can get rid of him. Maybe the decent loan makes it possible

 

[RORY65]

I mean it's the exact same issue with every player we've signed from Dortmund. You cant sign players suited to a completely different system and just expect them to work.

As fans we keep expecting that United will transform into a more team based side with the components you mention but it hasn't happened.

Sancho being a tit is a separate discussion but I think the dislike has now meant he's just disregarded as shite rather than a poor fit.

Him not giving a shit about his performances or his level of effort but being so determined about his right not to try has really put me off him, I don't want the guy back after what happened at the start of the season and based on what he's shown over his time at United.

However what you say has some validity, I'm not surprised that he looks a bit better in a better team playing a more coherent style of football against generally weaker opposition. He's a decent player but he has physical limitations that he's not technically good enough to overcome to be a really impactful player, particularly not in a United team who can only play in transitions and who aren't anywhere near the best teams in terms of playing the game in the opposing half and using patterns of play to open up defensive teams.

I think he's basically a poor man's Jack Grealish, a player who hasn't been very productive at all for City this year but who would struggle even more with the chaos at United.

 

[DJ_21]

Helping Dortmund get top 4 here

 

[Pintu]

The perfect shot…

 

[NieThePiet]

Incredible goal.

 

[stefan92]

Helping Dortmund get top 4 here

Well... that has to wait

Great goal nonetheless

 

[afrocentricity]

Someone clip it

 

[the_cliff]

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[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Just in time to tempt Dortmund into believing he can recapture his old form if they buy him on a permanent deal for 35m.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Better than Salah at the moment.... probably less baggage too

 

[Pintu]

Just in time to tempt Dortmund into believing he can recapture his old form if they buy him on a permanent deal for 35m.

I think his incoming brace against Paris and then the winning goal against Madrid/Bayern in the final will get us a bigger offer.

 

[Lay]

Great finish

 

[ForeverRed1]

Hopefully we can capture a good fee for him in the summer.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Helping Dortmund get top 4 here

That went well.

 

[DevilRed]

60m then

 

[afrocentricity]

60m then

Couldn't complain with that....

 

[DJ_21]

That went well.

It did indeed. Knew I’d jinx it

 

[Robbie Boy]

It did indeed. Knew I’d jinx it

Hopefully added a few mil to his pricetag though.

 

[Hammondo]

I think that's oversimplifying it a bit. 1 on 1 defending is all about slowing the opponent down as it is incredibly easy to beat a defender who challenges you first. So you close the space as much as possible without offering him to go past you on either side easily and wait for pressing triggers (e. g. a bad touch). That's when players like Vinicius are pretty much "uncatchable" because he can outran everybody (except for Kyle Walker). Sancho instead dribbles at the defenders more cautiously, makes a few body feints, forcing them to reposition and waits for them to misplace a foot while doing so. That also gives team mates time to make runs inbehind or come towards him so even if you cover all spaces he could dribble into, he can still exploit a small passing lane with a quick flick pass.

Watch the scene at 0:40:

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Sancho changed directions a couple of times without any risk of losing the ball, Molina adjusted but a very tight lane for a one two opened up and he overplayed four (!) Atletico players. At 1:05 he has the ball in a deep position and isn't attacked so he plays a line breaking pass for the goal, again overplaying four Atletico defender. However, it also shows how reliant he is on being surrounded with movement and players who he can link up with in tight areas. In contrast, a player like Rashford can work in isolation since he can always rely on his pace and core stability.

Looks like he played really well, he's such a good linkup player. Looks a lot like a City type player.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Worth keeping him next season? Just enable Parental Mode on his Xbox so he can't play anything after 10pm. Ten Hag will need a new job so he can be the guy who has to prod Sancho with a stick every morning to wake him up.

 

[JogaBonitoRooney]

Helping Dortmund get top 4 here

They'll likely get 5th and qualify for CL anyway.

 

[horsechoker]

Helping Dortmund get top 4 here

They got bummed 4-1

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Hopefully we can capture a good fee for him in the summer.

His performance will earn him another loan next season.

 

[DevilRed]

Worth keeping him next season? Just enable Parental Mode on his Xbox so he can't play anything after 10pm. Ten Hag will need a new job so he can be the guy who has to prod Sancho with a stick every morning to wake him up.

Hire a nanny/butler to watch over him.