I love it when someone injects some reality into these threads. Well said. LVG and Jose spents massive fortunes in their first 2 years and there is no reason to believe that Klopp wouldn't have done so as well had we hired him. Hell, maybe WE would have bought VVD instead of Slabhead.
James Robson: Even Liverpool boss Jurgen Klopp would be destined to fail at Man Utd
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Yep - no manager in the world could possibly do well here 
All his is true and fine but ultimately a manager has to be backed unconditionally. Imagine if City board after Pep's first season had told we wouln't allow you to spend another 200m on players and play with the players you have. What City did in 2017 summer can never be done by our board. Selling all the deadwood and buying players Pep wanted. Ofcourse he also didn't get all his wishes but he still got most of it. He bought Stones for 55m, it wasn't enough, city board gave him another 60 m signing in Laporte. And here we argued why should Jose be backed considering he already bought Baily. What kind of weird logic is that?
When I say back I mean unconditional backing and not where you say here is your 100m and go and spend. If you want to win something big you need to spend something big and back the managers in major decision. The fact that our board is so inept makes our managers be it Jose or Ole or Van gaal to back the mediocre players aka Jones, Young, Fellaini, Rojo, Lingard. Imagine Liverpool board not backing Klopp to sell Benteke, Balotelli and others. If I am not wrong only Henderson and Miller remain from the Liverpool side prior to 15-16 season. That's what you call rebuild. What we have done is stupidity.
haha, it's just the most fecked up logic ever.
Liverpool were every bit the shambles we are now when Klopp took over. It's a stupid article. He completely transformed them.
I imagine this thread will be full of two opinions, those who don't think Ole is good enough (me) and therefore disagree. Those who are vehemently Ole in and therefore agree.
I imagine this thread will be full of two opinions, those who don't think Ole is good enough (me) and therefore disagree. Those who are vehemently Ole in and therefore agree.
I hate articles like this, because it takes so much of the credit away from Klopp's genius.
Fenway took over in 2010 ffs.
But that's not a thing, all managers are backed with caveats. It's also nonsensical to claim that the board made anyone back mediocre players, not when these managers oversaw big clear outs, some of their own signings being included. There is no reason to claim that the board made the manager keep the players that you named.
My thoughts exactly.
At current state, even Fergie would struggle and joins the list of managers who struggled after Fergie.
Does anyway have a list of the dross Fenway bought before Klopp came in and suddenly started turning every new signings into a superstar, coincidentally just as he had done at Dortmund?
This is so ridiculous.
But what would a manager do if the board don't make more signings. Have you seen the state of our squad, it is thin as bare bones. Tell me why are we not making any signings when we badly need some new bodies. Do you think Ole would play Lingard and even AP if we had better players brought. People used to make fun of Jose by saying he loves Fellaini, maybe he did love but then maybe he had no other option so had to just stick with him. We are relying on youth players ffs and our manager wants players on loan. We are just big club by our history and name but since sir alex retired we have acted like novices.
It's hardly ridiculous considering how our rivals board have backed their managers to do their stuff. Of course you won't get all the signings but we are at that point where we need some major reinforcement and yes having a net spend of 70m is not that. Either back the manager or just sack him. This whole logic of backing the board is weird.
And how exactly they did that? Can you enlighten me please because to me, Liverpool's board is hardly any better than ours and Klopp constantly misses out on targets or need to wait multiple transfer windows to get the players he wants, very similar to us.
And you tell me how exactly have this board done a good job since 2013 apart from making stupid decisions after stupid, whether that be appointing wrong managers or offering contracts to mediocre players on stupid wages.
Caroll, Henderson(dross before Klopp), Charlie Adam, Downing, Enrique, Allen, Borini, Mignolet, Aspas, Alberto, Moreno, Lambert, Origi, Balotelli, Markovic, Lovren(dross before Klopp), Lallana(dross before klopp), Grujic(hyped up and disappeared), Benteke and Clyne. After that Klopp arrives and it becomes depressing.
City only could back Pep, because they planned for him in advance. They knew he is a top manager worth backing, they invested in him, they only could back him. Liverpool did the same once they realised they struck gold with Klopp. Ed isnt backing our managers because he knows they arent worth backing and will sack them at one point. He backs them for a season and then stops, because of all the every day results. Do you really think Ed sits there and thinks Ole is the guy, lets back him the next three years? No, deep down he knows he will sack him at one point this or next season and wont back him to the extent Ole would like. Ed is of course clueless himself, because he cant hire the managers we would need. If he sacks Ole, he will botch the next appointment. He couldn't sell the United project to Pep or Klopp if he tried 100 times. There is no enthusiasm, direction and knowledge, everybody can see that. We are randomly run and hope we find the next Fergie, but are blind and can't see a very good manager if he was already inside the club.
And on your point of deadwood players, Klopp knew which players he needed to get rid of and which ones he absolutely wanted to buy. Hindsight.
At our club, you dont know if Ed or Ole want to keep certain players. What if Ole is the guy who wanted to keep Jones as well as other players around, and not necessarily Ed. I dont think it is as black and white as some people think, i assume Ole has a lot to say who stays and who doesnt, every manager at United gets a lot responsibility. Lingard doesnt play because Ed told him to. Ole himself is a ditherer, the job is simply too big for him. He probably is anxious and fears to make wrong moves, leading to nothing. I remember when he said this season is when he will decide who to stay and who will go (something along those lines), when everyone thought that was last season.
Agreed. Hopefully the fans at OT make themselves heard load and clear vs Burnley as they did vs Norwich. With the Neville article today we may finally start to get somewhere
But that doesn't apply to United, we spent a fortune and increased our recurring spendings to a point where we now need to balance the book. We are in this situation because we backed Mourinho and LVG more than common sense required.
I actually agree with him.
I know we're in a bad place, some of the comments in here are borderline insane though. By the way, Klopp is a fantastic coach and all that but he's hardly single handedly responsible for Liverpool's success. Stop making it sound like he is, people need to get fecking rational.
I never said Ole should not be blamed and yes it not black and white but the point is our board has taken some ridiculously bad decision after bad decision and yet remain in their position. What makes you think t he likes of Pep or Klopp would have been able achieve what they are achieving with their club with this board. Yes we would have been better than 5th, maybe 2nd or 3rd but is what we want to celebrate.
Get fecking rational yourself. Wanna know why Dortmund haven't made a CL final or won a Bundesliga since Klopp left?
There’s plenty of deserving criticism thrown the way of Woodward and the rest of the board but they don’t hand players new contracts unless the manager says he wants them in the squad.
The decision to award Phil Jones a new contract is a much down to Ole as the money men who signed off on it, if not more.
We've backed all of our managers, even going all out for Sanchez in January with insane wages to appease our managers.
Klopp would've hated that kind of backing I'm sure. Bailly, Miki, Zlatan, Pogba, Matic, Lindelöf, Sanchez, Fred.. anything the manger wanted and more. And then we said stop, I think because it was getting a bit ridiculous and we wanted something more long term from our manager and team, we wanted the manager to think more Klopp-esque if you like.
Why are we so threadbare now? I'd argue because Ole's vision is to remove the "bad eggs" from the club asap and doesn't care about short term damage, and that even now, he'll only target players that he sees as long-term United players and often they are stupidly overpriced Longstaff or Fernandes so a nightmare to bring in.
I'd personally advise Ole to concentrate much more on the here and now.
Yes they backed Jose and we finished 2nd and then the board dithered by not sacking him and neither backing him the next summer and we wasted full season. Every tom and harry could tell Jose was acting weird for the whole summer and not backing him would mean major unrest and yet this inept board decided to do nothing.
City backed pep in his first season and city finished 3rd and then they backed him more to help him achieve what he wanted. We have spent millions but without planning. From a possession based manager to a manager who hated having possession to a manager who is opposite to Jose. All the managers deserve their blame but Jose, van gaal and Moyes all are long gone and yet we somehow keep on blaming them and here we have Woodward and Judge sitting doing nothing and haggling for 10m and wasting each transfer windows. Now the focus is on Ole. Don't you see the trend. Ole gone then next manager comes and does well for 6 months and we all become happy then we start looking clueless and blame the next manager.
Woodward promised for a Director of Football, no signs of anyone yet. There has been no structural changes to the club yet. It's high time people start calling out our inept board more often than not.
Is this true though? Do we know this for a fact? Did Mourinho really want Marcos Rojo to get a new three year deal? Did he really want Martial getting a new deal? Did he really want Pogba to stay?
I'm not going to comment because I don't work for the club and I'm not in the negotiating room. However, I would be shocked if any manager has complete control over first team affairs. Nothing we have seen in recent years suggests that the playing staff, who stays and who goes, is all down to the first team coach. Some will say that's for good, cos Jose would've sold Martial and got Perisic. However, the fact remains, I am doubtful that this is all any coach's fault.
BS. Look at Liverpool's squad when he got the job and more importantly which players they replaced Suarez with after selling him to Barca and it's nearly equal to how much we fecked up Ronaldo's money. At this time no one was thinking Liverpool was having that great of a board either. Klopp was the sole reason they became what they became. People will say he spent loads but the fact is all his big money signings have been a massive hit. VVD and Alisson transformed their defense. Meanwhile we spent equal sum on the likes of Maguire, Lukaku and Pogba and they have all been very inconsistent in their performance, with one of them already leaving.
James Robson is an idiot. It was Jose's demand that he doesn't have a DOF over him. He forced Valdano out of Madrid and Emenalo out of Chelsea. His ego is too big to have a DOF take some of the praise for his success. Then when it all goes tits-up, he knows all he has to do is blame the club for not giving him a DOF.
I think Fergie and Mike Phelan are our joint Directors of Football now. I think they are working together behind the scenes to rebuild from scratch, while Ole's job is to develop the likes of Scott, Greenwood, Williams, Garner.
A full reboot from scratch takes time. There seems to be a feeling on here that a top DOF can not come from within. Van Der Saar is doing fine at Ajax.
Ralf Rangnick or Paul Mitchell would be awesome, but there's no reason why Mike Phelan couldn't perform the role.
I think Fergie and Mike Phelan are our joint Directors of Football now. I think they are working together behind the scenes to rebuild from scratch, while Ole's job is to develop the likes of Scott, Greenwood, Williams, Garner.
A full reboot from scratch takes time. There seems to be a feeling on here that a top DOF can not come from within. Van Der Saar is doing fine at Ajax.
Ralf Rangnick or Paul Mitchell would be awesome, but there's no reason why Mike Phelan couldn't perform the role.
Great reply mate, revolutionairy insight right there.
I completely agree with that and Ole has to take his share of blame. But the point remains what makes you think Woodward and Judge have done a good job. Ole only came here last December, Jose, Van gaal and Moyes are long gone but these two constant remain at their position. Maybe there is a reason Klopp didn;t like working of Woodward and co. and termed us Disneyland because honestly we do look like one.
And as for our wage structure, well it's not the manager who decide how much wages should one get. If spending money alone would have been the criteria then even Everton would have been in top 4. Fact that we still have a squad which have bang average players makes you wonder how much money we have wasted on wrong players and renewed players contract who should have been long gone.
United isn't an endless pit of money, in june 2018 our wage bill was at 332m, which is an increase of 116m in two years on top of the money spent on players registrations. Your idea of backing, not backing is at best childish, you don't seem to realize that we can't just spend as if we were printing money. City are owned by an oil state, they actually have billions to spare, we don't. We also didn't do nothing we signed Dalot and Fred on top of already investing big in Sanchez in January.
You are just arguing for the sake of arguing. If you think this board is doing a wonderful job then you clearly are delusional.
I never suggested that the board was doing a wonderful job, you just happens to talk absolute nonsense when it comes to backing/not backing a manager. And can't support your point which leads us to this post.
It's so easy for Klopp to come out with that now, and for people to use it as a stick to beat us with. Klopp though has never walked out mid contract in his life and never will. We contacted him mid-contract and tried to sell the club to get him to leave Dortmund.
Liverpool contacted an out of work Klopp, coming off his poorest season ever, at a time when no other top job was available.
No idea what that means dude. Just read any random analysis of Liverpool's success, look at the people involved behind the scenes and google them, read about the way they set up the club and the decisions they made and tell me again Klopp is the sole reason they became what they became. In my opinon it's genuinely delusional to make such a claim.
https://www.thisisanfield.com/2020/01/liverpool-fc-a-blueprint-for-success/
One of the best decisions FSG have made at Liverpool was appointing Michael Edwards as sporting director. Make no mistake, it was a risky move, as Edwards had been promoted through the ranks and came with a background of analytics. He wasn’t a traditional ‘football man’ in the mould of a Johan Cruyff. But it is a risk that has paid off unbelievably well.
Since his appointment Edwards has gone on to become one of, if not the best sporting director in world football (based on the size of Liverpool and its competitors). In his early tenure as part of the infamous transfer committee Coutinho arrived at Liverpool for £8.5 million. The subsequent sale and reinvestment of the fee for the same player has been Edwards’ best work so far.
But just look at the players we have signed under Edwards, and the cost. It is incredible to think we have probably the best and most frightening front three in world football at a total cost of under £100 million. And they are all aged just 27 or 28, only just entering their peak years. And we can never, ever forget Andy Robertson.
Edwards is the man that works behind the scenes to recruit the players that fit into the vision and philosophy of playing style. He is the architect.
Again, Edwards doesn’t work alone, Dave Fallows and Barry Hunter report into him and are critical to the recruitment process. But the performance of our recruitment team has been world class since the arrival of Jurgen Klopp—and that team is led by Edwards.
Since his appointment Edwards has gone on to become one of, if not the best sporting director in world football (based on the size of Liverpool and its competitors). In his early tenure as part of the infamous transfer committee Coutinho arrived at Liverpool for £8.5 million. The subsequent sale and reinvestment of the fee for the same player has been Edwards’ best work so far.
But just look at the players we have signed under Edwards, and the cost. It is incredible to think we have probably the best and most frightening front three in world football at a total cost of under £100 million. And they are all aged just 27 or 28, only just entering their peak years. And we can never, ever forget Andy Robertson.
Edwards is the man that works behind the scenes to recruit the players that fit into the vision and philosophy of playing style. He is the architect.
Again, Edwards doesn’t work alone, Dave Fallows and Barry Hunter report into him and are critical to the recruitment process. But the performance of our recruitment team has been world class since the arrival of Jurgen Klopp—and that team is led by Edwards.
The fact that Ole want Jones to have that contract, but has now realised he is rubbish and a liability, does not bode well regarding judgement. Yet we are putting the whole of United's future in his hands.
It goes without saying that United are in a bit of a mess at the moment and the fault lies firmly at the feet of the board and the owners. Would Klopp have made United champions with this board? No. Would we better off than we are now? YES. Klopp made Dortmund champions on a shoestring and I do believe the quality of the man as a coach would have help him build a much better organised and competitive squad than the one we have now. This squad isn't totally Ole's fault. We all know it's been cobbled together by a revolving door attitude to managers who where never totally backed by Woodward and the board. Woodwards fixation with the odd big name buys not in reality to improve the team but to sell jerseys didn't work and his inability to either work on more than one deal at a time or to even get these deals over the line quickly is hurting the club. What is the answer? The best solution is for the Glaser's to sell but that won't happen soon if ever as long as the club keeps making money. Removing Woodward from all football matters and the appointment of a DOF to oversee transfers should help. But who? First choice is at Lille and was wanted by Jose but Woodward said no. Now Woodward want him he has said no and who could blame him. Why join a club who didn't want you when your friend was there and then want you after your friend was sacked. Plus with the state of this squad any DOF would be afraid they might not be given the funds and the time to put things straight.
Explain to me @Henrik Larsson again why Dortmund haven't won a Bundesliga or made a CL final since Klopp left, despite also having the best behind the scenes set-up in the World when Klopp was there.
Since Klopp left, Dortmund have strangely gotten worse in the CL each year, go figure. Quarters, quarters, last 16, last 16, last 16.
Coincidence? I don't think so.