Brown, Oshea, Evans and Fletcher didn't contribute to our success over the last decade?Chelsea have had no more good youth players than Ferguson let go during his time (e.g. Rossi, Pique).
It's such a bullshit argument and has no basis in the reality of top clubs. Even fecking Liverpool stick to tried and tested players 99% of the time (and we've all heard for years how 'great' their youth players have been).
Bar the class of 92', Ferguson brought through feck all quality and in many ways it hindered United in his later years having to play shite like Tom Cleverly instead of buying some genuine talent.
Please not Giggs.Mourinho loves to be loved. If he came to United, he'd promote youth a lot more than he has done anywhere else. He'd do it just for the adulation.
My worry would be his 3 year best before date. Has he learned from his past mistakes or is he doomed to repeat them?
I'd rather have Giggs, but if Mourinho can avoid rubbing people up the wrong way, I wouldn't mind him coming in. My fear is that he might leave us in a terrible state afterwards like he did with Inter. His short term thinking got them a treble, but his sudden departure left them with a squad that went into sharp decline as soon as he left. If that cycle gets repeated, we'd have 3 years of success, followed by another 3 or 4 years of rebuilding. I don't personally want that. It's why a steady presence is always my preference.
I would hope he could change some of those negatives here but I agree that it's not a thrilling prospect in terms of the concerns. The thing is our current manager only ticks one box on Carraghers list and that's playing kids, his football is dreadful and he's not winning, in fact his record over the last 15 years is nothing special when it comes to trophies.It's one thing to want Mourinho but it's another to pretend the negatives he always brings will suddenly disappear once he arrives here.
Lets be clear: Mourinho will behave terribly, Mourinho will play conservative football, Mourinho will park the bus against better teams, Mourinho will largely forget our youth system.
If you're happy to trade that stuff off for a good chance of winning things then fair enough, Mourinho is the guy you want. Hardly surprising that other people are reluctant to bring him into the club though.
If anything Carragher is underplaying the downside to a Mourinho appointment.
Yeah. We need someone who can win the Dutch league with a team like AZ Alkmaar, right?Please not Giggs.
Yeah. We need someone who can win the Dutch league with a team like AZ Alkmaar, right?
Giggs knows all of LvG's tricks now. He'll keep the best of what he's learned (defensive organisation) but add his own ideas as well. He's too young to be stubborn about it, which seems to be the reason van Gaal lost the dressing room.
Yes "if" giggs can do it, and that is a big if.It's interesting that the two best managers in the game right now are Mourinho and Guardiola... both of whom credit their management styles to LvG. It's even more interesting that all of them seem to implode within three years of taking over at a club. If Giggs can sprinkle a bit of Fergie fairy dust over the club to stop that from happening, we'll be golden.
I know you're argument well by now and it's convincing. However, Jose hasn't convinced this season and Klopp lost my confidence last season. I think footy has changed since the last World Cup and it's all about player power. The top managers as was have not changed, whereas Ranieri has suddenly turned up. I think there is a significant change in progress and we need time to identify the best options to suit us. We can't go 3 managers expecting number 4 or 5 post-Fergie. The next manager has to be the right man.The problem is we will not have the pick of the top managers in the summer. van Gaal is too old in the tooth to change things around. He is not going to say he was wrong all this time and say he will have the team play attacking football and more importantly winning matches. He has simply not got it anymore.
Morinho is 52 and currently the best manager out there. I am willing to overlook his personality issues.
The Chelski board is about a one man oligarch. I really don't see a legacy for all his expenditure and prominent player purchases after he has gone. They have institutionalised player power and it's become a disease this season. Their fans deserve better and English Football needs to restore some common sense before it becomes a joke.I'm 100% sure that something happened behind the scene, the problems were visible for a long time and it was way before the Evagate, also at the exception of Gus Hiddink and Benitez all the managers had problems at Chelsea, there is something wrong within the board and the locker room.
No. The Chelsea board is a group of people and majority vote wins.I know you're argument well by now and it's convincing. However, Jose hasn't convinced this season and Klopp lost my confidence last season. I think footy has changed since the last World Cup and it's all about player power. The top managers as was have not changed, whereas Ranieri has suddenly turned up. I think there is a significant change in progress and we need time to identify the best options to suit us. We can't go 3 managers expecting number 4 or 5 post-Fergie. The next manager has to be the right man.
The Chelski board is about a one man oligarch. I really don't see a legacy for all his expenditure and prominent player purchases after he has gone. They have institutionalised player power and it's become a disease this season. Their fans deserve better and English Football needs to restore some common sense before it becomes a joke.
It is not a marriage lad. We are paying millions and we want to get laid. With Moyes and LVG, not even a cup... but they did pocket their millions, alright.Short sighted
Carragher is right
Marry in haste and repent at leisure
The old rule was always 'never trust a Scouse' hence why Hansen got ridiculed with his silly comments back in the day. The last Scouse who actually said anything honest about us was Shankly when he said how nice it was looking down on United. As a tribe they have no say thanks to Fergie - they don't have a perch to stand on!I bet there were plenty of scousers saying United were right to sack the Doc too...
Carragher was one of the biggest backers of Moyes at United, that tells you all you need to know. If you critique Jose's football how can you back Moyes'? Makes no sense if the motive is anything other than hurting United.
Jose is a winner, who has done it in England. The last thing 'Carra' is going to want is Mou at United. Forget what Carragher says. Jose is a must get now.
Aye, I think Mourinho might end up being the least worst option. Shame as I'd have taken any of Pep, Klopp or Ancelotti ahead of him without any hesitation.I would hope he could change some of those negatives here but I agree that it's not a thrilling prospect in terms of the concerns. The thing is our current manager only ticks one box on Carraghers list and that's playing kids, his football is dreadful and he's not winning, in fact his record over the last 15 years is nothing special when it comes to trophies.
I have been vehemently against getting Jose in but the cold reality is that we have missed 2 of the 3 remaining candidates for sure and will likely miss out on Pep as well and our currenr manager is sucking the life out of the team with each passing game, so where do we go? Giggs? Martinez? Pochettino? Some random choice from Europe? It's pretty bleak in terms of suitable options.
Phil.I know you're argument well by now and it's convincing. However, Jose hasn't convinced this season and Klopp lost my confidence last season. I think footy has changed since the last World Cup and it's all about player power. The top managers as was have not changed, whereas Ranieri has suddenly turned up. I think there is a significant change in progress and we need time to identify the best options to suit us. We can't go 3 managers expecting number 4 or 5 post-Fergie. The next manager has to be the right man.
Definitely, those 3 were comfortably ahead of him, truth is he's a somewhat unexpected option due to the bizarre collapse at Chelsea, could turn out to be a perfect storm for him and us or we could both continue plummeting together.Aye, I think Mourinho might end up being the least worst option. Shame as I'd have taken any of Pep, Klopp or Ancelotti ahead of him without any hesitation.
The only other option I could think of is Simeone but he's hardly a perfect fit either. Beyond that and we're deep into B or C list managers...
the Doc leaving had nothing to do with football.I bet there were plenty of scousers saying United were right to sack the Doc too...
Carragher was one of the biggest backers of Moyes at United, that tells you all you need to know. If you critique Jose's football how can you back Moyes'? Makes no sense if the motive is anything other than hurting United.
Jose is a winner, who has done it in England. The last thing 'Carra' is going to want is Mou at United. Forget what Carragher says. Jose is a must get now.
I agree about Chelsea being a problem club. However, there were a few articles last year about the administration having a policy which deliberately curbed the power of a manager - in short, to stop anyone becoming 'bigger than the club' in future. And even now, the public message from the Chelsea establishment is "It's not the players' fault". Abramovich has never been slow to scold the players about their assumption of power, so why is it different this time? Because it all points to problems caused by Mourinho's methods...I'm 100% sure that something happened behind the scene, the problems were visible for a long time and it was way before the Evagate, also at the exception of Gus Hiddink and Benitez all the managers had problems at Chelsea, there is something wrong within the board and the locker room.
I like Simeone too. But Mourinho's football is more aggressive. His football reminds me more of what the German national team play. like a machine. They get the job done. Not what we may be used to watching United...well under Fergie anyways.Definitely, those 3 were comfortably ahead of him, truth is he's a somewhat unexpected option due to the bizarre collapse at Chelsea, could turn out to be a perfect storm for him and us or we could both continue plummeting together.
I love Simeone's fire and the way his players play for him, but if the board are worried about style of football and antics then he carries the same concerns as Jose.
He's already learned under LvG and Fergie.Yes "if" giggs can do it, and that is a big if.
Id rather bring in Jose for a few years and let giggs learn under him.
I believe LVG to be as good as gone and the club made a mistake not hiring Jose after Moyes and I hope the club doesn't make a mistake like that again.
If the board had concerns about Van Gaal earlier on, there were 2 excellent managers, who do not come with baggage, that were available. They are going to Chelsea and Bayern Munich. Everything that caftards seem to hate about Van Gaal, is the also applicable to Jose. I just do not get the love in for the guy. He is good at taking an established team to the next level, he is obviously not good at handling teams in a poor state, as no previous in building teams, he is also not the person who will bring entertaining football to United. Almost out of the frying pan into the fire.He's correct about Mourinho, but the truth is that we are desperate, and I don't see that as a bad thing.
Yep. And although it's to be expected the lack of a shit people give about it as well has surprised me.We would kiss goodbye to giving chances to youth if mourinho comes.
The problem with fans beeing desperate is that they will accept anything. But after a bit of progress and a few results, the desperation goes and the demands come, and they will not accept anything but the best and want the manager sacked. If the club comes in this cycle of desperation and demanding and keeps sacking managers, 7th will turn out to be a very good reflection of the state the club was in.He's correct about Mourinho, but the truth is that we are desperate, and I don't see that as a bad thing.
And a lot they hated about Van Gaal, is also applicable to Pep, and even more.If the board had concerns about Van Gaal earlier on, there were 2 excellent managers, who do not come with baggage, that were available. They are going to Chelsea and Bayern Munich. Everything that caftards seem to hate about Van Gaal, is the also applicable to Jose.
And, he's probably over and done with. The magic has gone. This was a man who brought players a feeling of invincability, just trust him and he'll make you a winner. This, together with his mind games and putting pressure on referees and things like that, were a essential for his succes.I just do not get the love in for the guy. He is good at taking an established team to the next level, he is obviously not good at handling teams in a poor state, as no previous in building teams, he is also not the person who will bring entertaining football to United. Almost out of the frying pan into the fire.
I agree, but the issue is bigger than Van Gaal or not Van Gaal. The issue is that the club and therefore the fans, who are a big influence, should recognize the state the club was in and is in, and it's much worse than buying a couple of the best players the fans could think of and challinging for the CL again while taking the title for granted.I think it would be piss poor to get rid of LVG, sure the football is not entertaining yet, but are they really going to sack a manager who has yet to be proven incapable of meeting the goals he was set.
That may be preferable to throwing unprepared and unready youngsters in at the deep end. Does anyone think any of our 'youth' will go on to achieve greatness here except for Januzaj and Wilson?We would kiss goodbye to giving chances to youth if mourinho comes.
Why? have you seen this place over the summer? muppet overload, spend, spend, spend, youngsters be damned.Yep. And although it's to be expected the lack of a shit people give about it as well has surprised me.
Greatness? Or being a part of a succesfull squad? Wes Brown won a champions league medal and played the most minutes that season compared to everyone else but is he considered to have reached a level of greatness? Not for me. Players like McNair, Varela and Borthwick-Jackson might never become world class players but being thrown at the deep end isn't always a bad thing i don't think.That may be preferable to throwing unprepared and unready youngsters in at the deep end. Does anyone think any of our 'youth' will go on to achieve greatness here except for Januzaj and Wilson?
Actually the former two are championship levelGreatness? Or being a part of a succesfull squad? Wes Brown won a champions league medal and played the most minutes that season compared to everyone else but is he considered to have reached a level of greatness? Not for me. Players like McNair, Varela and Borthwick-Jackson might never become world class players but being thrown at the deep end isn't always a bad thing i don't think.
Wes Brown played 362 games over 14 years for us, winning 7 leagues and 2 European Cups. His achievements were great. He achieved greatness.Greatness? Or being a part of a succesfull squad? Wes Brown won a champions league medal and played the most minutes that season compared to everyone else but is he considered to have reached a level of greatness? Not for me. Players like McNair, Varela and Borthwick-Jackson might never become world class players but being thrown at the deep end isn't always a bad thing i don't think.
And we can kiss goodbye to winning a title anytime soon if Mourinho does not come.We would kiss goodbye to giving chances to youth if mourinho comes.
Im assuming you mean at this moment in time.Actually the former two are championship level
