January Transfer Window

jojojo

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Welcome to Manchester reception committee
The thing is our reticence to pay the agent fees and unreasonable transfer fees isn't due to some morality or sense of what should be but simply due to fact the bean counters will only allow (x) amount of money to be spent. This is all down to risk management of investment. We are a business whereas the likes of city/psg/chelsea are play things of owners who have unlimited funds.
The glazers will never allow us on the same financial footing as those clubs, we have to be smarter.
Equally the business model rides on the back of CL football and trophies. Lose those and your TV and prize money falls fast.

Liverpool cope? Yes, they do, but with about half our revenue. The sponsorships won't dry up overnight? Of course not, but new deals get lower bids (particularly relative to other top clubs) and old deals start to run out.

Work smarter? Of course we must. Simeone at Atletico, Klopp at Dortmund have found ways to create teams (if not squads) that are competitive with much wealthier rivals. They're fighting an uphill battle against having their best assets stripped, but they're doing it with the ability to get the best out of whatever players they've got, as well as a strong playing philosophy.
 

LonelyFire

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Equally the business model rides on the back of CL football and trophies. Lose those and your TV and prize money falls fast.

Liverpool cope? Yes, they do, but with about half our revenue. The sponsorships won't dry up overnight? Of course not, but new deals get lower bids (particularly relative to other top clubs) and old deals start to run out.

Work smarter? Of course we must. Simeone at Atletico, Klopp at Dortmund have found ways to create teams (if not squads) that are competitive with much wealthier rivals. They're fighting an uphill battle against having their best assets stripped, but they're doing it with the ability to get the best out of whatever players they've got, as well as a strong playing philosophy.
Those teams have an identity - the play a style which means the sum of the parts is greater than the individuals. We are fundamentally the opposite. For years, our whole game plan has been to have special talent in the "right" area of the pitchn to decide games. i.e. up front. Get the ball to them enough and they will do something.

This is what Moyes has found out this season - not in his wildest dreams would he have expected it to be this much of a rebuild.
 

Rozay

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If we want to be a global footballing powerhouse, we need to act like one. It's a nasty business, filled with nasty characters generally manipulating very poorly educated boys in one of the most lucrative careers in the world. United have been fortunate in that they had a generation of players that were both a bit blue-collar, hard working types but also phenomenal talents that were willing to play for the shirt. I'm not convinced we can expect that anymore. It'd be nice, but I think it's a fantasy.

Look at City at the moment. I'm not exaggerating when I say their home form is simply the most dominant, exciting, attacking football I've ever witnessed in England. But not a single one of those players ever thought they'd play a single moment for Manchester City when they were growing up. There are no youth players there, no sense of history or 'playing for the sky blue shirt'. It's simple - City have spent and they now have far and away the best set of players in the league. It's as distasteful as a gold-plated Ferrari and probably appeals to the same clientele, but that is the market in which we now operate.

There are countless examples throughout history of once dominant companies desperately clinging to their old business models, while the world moves on without them. That's where we are today. We can either use our enormous revenues to play at the true top table of global football, or we can join the also-rans. Who do we want our peers to be? If it's Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal, Milan and so forth then so be it. But if we honestly believe we're in the same category as Real, Barcelona and Bayern then we need to start acting like it, because it's very easy to get left behind pining for the good years.

So I say suck it up. Pay the scum agents their fees. Piss on their cash if it makes you feel better, they'll take it any way they can. Because we desperately need some marquee signings, as much for our reputation as anything else.
To be honest, I struggle to see us re - establishing ourselves as better than City any time soon. If Fergie were here, my view would differ, but the new force in town are just too powerful on and off the pitch. As in they look like a team I could see going unbeaten next season, and their financial strength is too much.

I'm not saying we won't win the League again, but I doubt it will be as it used to. Not unless we are bought out. Bow City are starting to look like they are getting to grips with the CL too they will only go from strength to strength.
 

Sarni

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To be honest, I struggle to see us re - establishing ourselves as better than City any time soon. If Fergie were here, my view would differ, but the new force in town are just too powerful on and off the pitch. As in they look like a team I could see going unbeaten next season, and their financial strength is too much.

I'm not saying we won't win the League again, but I doubt it will be as it used to. Not unless we are bought out. Bow City are starting to look like they are getting to grips with the CL too they will only go from strength to strength.
Yeah. They have a very good (perhaps even great) manager with a plan in place, plenty of money to spend, an already good team with solid foundation that will provide a great platform for the future. Chelsea could push them as they also have financial potential as well as a good manager and a fairly good team (albeit lacking in a few departments and with less quality). Arsenal and Liverpool have impressed this season but they don't have the potential to match City over a longer distance.

We're in a bit of a turmoil now and it could take a while to recover. Hopefully we'll pull ourselves together sooner rather than later but we're bound to lose a few crucial players in the next 2-3 years (Vidic, Rooney, van Persie) and we don't have replacements in place.
 

Kag

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If we want to be a global footballing powerhouse, we need to act like one. It's a nasty business, filled with nasty characters generally manipulating very poorly educated boys in one of the most lucrative careers in the world. United have been fortunate in that they had a generation of players that were both a bit blue-collar, hard working types but also phenomenal talents that were willing to play for the shirt. I'm not convinced we can expect that anymore. It'd be nice, but I think it's a fantasy.

Look at City at the moment. I'm not exaggerating when I say their home form is simply the most dominant, exciting, attacking football I've ever witnessed in England. But not a single one of those players ever thought they'd play a single moment for Manchester City when they were growing up. There are no youth players there, no sense of history or 'playing for the sky blue shirt'. It's simple - City have spent and they now have far and away the best set of players in the league. It's as distasteful as a gold-plated Ferrari and probably appeals to the same clientele, but that is the market in which we now operate.

There are countless examples throughout history of once dominant companies desperately clinging to their old business models, while the world moves on without them. That's where we are today. We can either use our enormous revenues to play at the true top table of global football, or we can join the also-rans. Who do we want our peers to be? If it's Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal, Milan and so forth then so be it. But if we honestly believe we're in the same category as Real, Barcelona and Bayern then we need to start acting like it, because it's very easy to get left behind pining for the good years.

So I say suck it up. Pay the scum agents their fees. Piss on their cash if it makes you feel better, they'll take it any way they can. Because we desperately need some marquee signings, as much for our reputation as anything else.
Great post.
 

Sarni

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The thing is our reticence to pay the agent fees and unreasonable transfer fees isn't due to some morality or sense of what should be but simply due to fact the bean counters will only allow (x) amount of money to be spent. This is all down to risk management of investment. We are a business whereas the likes of city/psg/chelsea are play things of owners who have unlimited funds.
The glazers will never allow us on the same financial footing as those clubs, we have to be smarter.

I think people are mostly putting it down to morality to have a sense of superiority. We might not win trophies, we might not have the best players but we won't budge to the agents requests and we won't pay young players what they want because we're the great Manchester United and we're above it all. I don't like this approach one bit.
 

MJLD

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Bit off-topic but I found this article from 2007 while I was reading about Anderson leaving us. Some interesting names in here about who we could have signed in 07 (were we ever in for Defoe like this suggests?) - Ferguson plots next move
 

KiD MoYeS

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Badly need a midfielder and a left back in January.
Sell a midfielder in January instead.
I'm coming round to Moyes' ways.
 

Varun

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Badly need a midfielder and a left back in January.
Sell a midfielder in January instead.
I'm coming round to Moyes' ways.

:lol:

Criticism for the sake of it.

Ando was deadwood, what the caf has been shouting for to get cleared so we can clear up squad space and funds for new players. Now that Moyes has done so, people still find a way to criticize him for it.
 

Sarni

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:lol:

Criticism for the sake of it.

Ando was deadwood, what the caf has been shouting for to get cleared so we can clear up squad space and funds for new players. Now that Moyes has done so, people still find a way to criticize him for it.

True, we're not that short in numbers in midfield, just short of quality.

Jones, Carrick, Giggs, Fletcher, Fellaini, Cleverley for two spots, it's enough in terms of the volume but not enough in terms of quality.
 

Nate Dogg

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True, we're not that short in numbers in midfield, just short of quality.

Jones, Carrick, Giggs, Fletcher, Fellaini, Cleverley for two spots, it's enough in terms of the volume but not enough in terms of quality.

Agree with the above.
 

SilentWitness

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We have a list of 10 or 15 names according to Martinez of potential signings and he intends to purchase an attacking player before the window closes. If by some unknown reason that is Jones out of the list i dread to think who the others were. :lol:
 

LonelyFire

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No.Because there is nothing new to tell.
Probably find he was asked - will be embargoed.

People shouldnt be holding their breath. I dont expect us to sign anyone.

Moyes can tell himself that the rebuilding will be done in the summer but he will the find the pool of people he can get will be very different to what he is currently expecting. The players he wants are not coming without CL Football - unless we spend City style money (which we wont). Its only then will the club realise the impact of last summer's debacle.
 

Woodzy

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Probably find he was asked - will be embargoed.

People shouldnt be holding their breath. I dont expect us to sign anyone.

Moyes can tell himself that the rebuilding will be done in the summer but he will the find the pool of people he can get will be very different to what he is currently expecting. The players he wants are not coming without CL Football - unless we spend City style money (which we wont). Its only then will the club realise the impact of last summer's debacle.
You'd like to think the guys getting paid a shit ton to run our club would know this. Hopefully they have it under control.
 

Sarni

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Probably find he was asked - will be embargoed.

People shouldnt be holding their breath. I dont expect us to sign anyone.

Moyes can tell himself that the rebuilding will be done in the summer but he will the find the pool of people he can get will be very different to what he is currently expecting. The players he wants are not coming without CL Football - unless we spend City style money (which we wont). Its only then will the club realise the impact of last summer's debacle.
There won't be much movement in the Summer as it's a World Cup Summer which means less time to deal with transfers and prepare bids (only slightly more than a month between the end of the tournament and start of the league) and possibly inflated prices. We might sign a player, maybe two, but there won't be any major signings I feel.

It's Summer 2015 when we'll get down to it properly IMO.
 

sullydnl

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There won't be much movement in the Summer as it's a World Cup Summer which means less time to deal with transfers and prepare bids (only slightly more than a month between the end of the tournament and start of the league) and possibly inflated prices. We might sign a player, maybe two, but there won't be any major signings I feel.

It's Summer 2015 when we'll get down to it properly IMO.
Except Moyes won't be here in Summer 2015 if things don't seriously improve. That either means rebuilding needs to be done or Moyes has to get more out of the talent that's already at his disposal. Indications so far are that he won't be able to do that, with even Moyes seeming to accept that things won't really get better until he has a stronger squad to work with. As such, Moyes and the club have no real choice but to try to push a lot of quality business through this summer. It's a bad position to be in but the truth is it's their own fault. They will have had three transfer windows to get the job done, if they can't manage some significant improvement they don't really deserve any sympathy or patience.
 

dev1l

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Italian media mediaset saying that we made a 24m euro offer for guarin and nagatomo
 

Drifter

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Probably find he was asked - will be embargoed.

People shouldnt be holding their breath. I dont expect us to sign anyone.

Moyes can tell himself that the rebuilding will be done in the summer but he will the find the pool of people he can get will be very different to what he is currently expecting. The players he wants are not coming without CL Football - unless we spend City style money (which we wont). Its only then will the club realise the impact of last summer's debacle.

Thought all along that the summer will be when business is done.Even if he wanted to there is not enough time in this window to bring players in and out.I may be wrong and behind the scene deals are being made,but i doubt it.
 

Will Absolute

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If we want to be a global footballing powerhouse, we need to act like one. It's a nasty business, filled with nasty characters generally manipulating very poorly educated boys in one of the most lucrative careers in the world. United have been fortunate in that they had a generation of players that were both a bit blue-collar, hard working types but also phenomenal talents that were willing to play for the shirt. I'm not convinced we can expect that anymore. It'd be nice, but I think it's a fantasy.

Look at City at the moment. I'm not exaggerating when I say their home form is simply the most dominant, exciting, attacking football I've ever witnessed in England. But not a single one of those players ever thought they'd play a single moment for Manchester City when they were growing up. There are no youth players there, no sense of history or 'playing for the sky blue shirt'. It's simple - City have spent and they now have far and away the best set of players in the league. It's as distasteful as a gold-plated Ferrari and probably appeals to the same clientele, but that is the market in which we now operate.

There are countless examples throughout history of once dominant companies desperately clinging to their old business models, while the world moves on without them. That's where we are today. We can either use our enormous revenues to play at the true top table of global football, or we can join the also-rans. Who do we want our peers to be? If it's Liverpool, Tottenham, Arsenal, Milan and so forth then so be it. But if we honestly believe we're in the same category as Real, Barcelona and Bayern then we need to start acting like it, because it's very easy to get left behind pining for the good years.

So I say suck it up. Pay the scum agents their fees. Piss on their cash if it makes you feel better, they'll take it any way they can. Because we desperately need some marquee signings, as much for our reputation as anything else.
Excellent post.

Old fashioned thinking will drop us to the second tier of the game. There's already a big quality gap between us and the best which has to be made up if we're going to win more Champions Leagues.

Giving an unproven manager years to remake the team in his own image, as many on the Cafe want, is deranged. No other top club would dream of doing so.
 

Irwinwastheking

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Excellent post.

Old fashioned thinking will drop us to the second tier of the game. There's already a big quality gap between us and the best which has to be made up if we're going to win more Champions Leagues.

Giving an unproven manager years to remake the team in his own image, as many on the Cafe want, is deranged. No other top club would dream of doing so.

I don't think anyone is talking about giving Moyes years if we're not looking at strong signs of improvement.

As for spending the money then I would agree with you, but the club are still going to ensure they aren't being butt fecked.
 

Dumbstar

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Excellent post.

Old fashioned thinking will drop us to the second tier of the game. There's already a big quality gap between us and the best which has to be made up if we're going to win more Champions Leagues.

Giving an unproven manager years to remake the team in his own image, as many on the Cafe want, is deranged. No other top club would dream of doing so.
We did it with Souness after Dalglish. I don't see the problem with that.

:p
 

Alock1

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Excellent post.

Old fashioned thinking will drop us to the second tier of the game. There's already a big quality gap between us and the best which has to be made up if we're going to win more Champions Leagues.

Giving an unproven manager years to remake the team in his own image, as many on the Cafe want, is deranged. No other top club would dream of doing so.
Barca, Real Madrid, Bayern, Inter, Juventus, AC Milan, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc.etc.

You could make a case against a couple of previous/current managers at every big club in the world over the last 10 years, saying they've hired managers who have won nothing or have little experience. The only team who hasn't is probably Arsenal because they've only had Wenger.
 

Will Absolute

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Barca, Real Madrid, Bayern, Inter, Juventus, AC Milan, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc.etc.

You could make a case against a couple of previous/current managers at every big club in the world over the last 10 years, saying they've hired managers who have won nothing or have little experience. The only team who hasn't is probably Arsenal because they've only had Wenger.
There's no point getting into a long discussion of credentials, and, tbh, I don't know much about the managerial merry-go-round in Italy. In recent years, Barca, Real, Bayern, Chelsea, City and PSG have tended to appoint proven winners, or, in the case of Barca, promote from within. Any team can make a mistaken appointment, but my quarrel is with the idea that an apparent mistake should be persevered with as a matter of 'principle'. We need to think clearly about the best interests of the club, and remember this isn't the 1950's.
 

walsh

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Please just fecking sign someone. Surely nobody at the club thinks we're going to be able to challenge for the top 4 and in the CL with our current squad? Surely!? I understand the prime targets might not be available or their prices will be inflated but we can't just cut our nose off to spite our face. Alright, we'll gain a moral victory by not overpaying or signing only a secondary target but in reality that will get us absolutely nowhere.

There's no point getting into a long discussion of credentials, and, tbh, I don't know much about the managerial merry-go-round in Italy. In recent years, Barca, Real, Bayern, Chelsea, City and PSG have tended to appoint proven winners, or, in the case of Barca, promote from within. Any team can make a mistaken appointment, but my quarrel is with the idea that an apparent mistake should be persevered with as a matter of 'principle'. We need to think clearly about the best interests of the club, and remember this isn't the 1950's.
Nobody is saying an apparent mistake should be persevered with. They're saying that it's not clear yet whether appointing Moyes was a mistake at all. Only time will tell.
 

Adebesi

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Please just fecking sign someone. Surely nobody at the club thinks we're going to be able to challenge for the top 4 and in the CL with our current squad? Surely!? I understand the prime targets might not be available or their prices will be inflated but we can't just cut our nose off to spite our face. Alright, we'll gain a moral victory by not overpaying or signing only a secondary target but in reality that will get us absolutely nowhere.
Isnt that the sentiment that landed us with Felliaini? Who, again, I think will come reasonably good for us. But Id rather get nobody than overpay for someone who isnt actually better than what we have already. We need to add real quality to the squad or wait for the summer. And I dont think real quality is coming this month.
 

devilish

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Isnt that the sentiment that landed us with Felliaini? Who, again, I think will come reasonably good for us. But Id rather get nobody than overpay for someone who isnt actually better than what we have already. We need to add real quality to the squad or wait for the summer. And I dont think real quality is coming this month.

In Summer there's the WC so we wait. Then we wait again because its January again and then...
 

Adebesi

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Sanctity, like a cat, abhors filth.
Still, the point remains I dont see the point in paying £30m for a £20m player, now or in the summer, when we already have plenty of players at that level - even in midfield. The WC excuse wont wash anyway. If we flop in the summer transfer window Moyes and Woodward will have to take responsibility for that, circumstances might explain it but they wont excuse it.