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Jeremie Frimpong

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DJ_21

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You know we can sign more than one player in a window right?
Never…. Didn’t know that. You’re missing my point. We always go for the less prioritised players and then when it comes to the player we actually want or need our way of not paying the money is saying we’ve not much budget left.
 

TwoSheds

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I wasn't saying that he can't be a good defender due to being small, but we already have Lisandro Martinez in our defence and he will be a mainstay. When it comes to defending set pieces and crosses you need a bit of height in the team and we're sometimes lacking in that department already.

If we had a robust defence around him I wouldn't be so reticent, but I'm just imagining now how fragile we'd look at the back if we ever had to start Frimpong, Martinez and Malacia together in the same back four. It's such an easy thing for opposition teams to target in the Premier League.
Is 5'7 small for a fullback though? Ashley Cole was what maybe an inch taller? Evra 2"? If you're tough and position yourself well, and even better if you have a great leap like Evra, then I don't think it's a problem. When it comes to set pieces you'd be looking at your DM and perhaps strikers to do their bit. Van Persie and Berbatov for example were exceptional when it came to defending corners.
 

CM

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Is 5'7 small for a fullback though? Ashley Cole was what maybe an inch taller? Evra 2"? If you're tough and position yourself well, and even better if you have a great leap like Evra, then I don't think it's a problem. When it comes to set pieces you'd be looking at your DM and perhaps strikers to do their bit. Van Persie and Berbatov for example were exceptional when it came to defending corners.
As I said before though, it's the fact that Frimpong looks slight as well as small. Cole and Evra were also playing in teams where they had two very imposing central defenders playing alongside them. As much as I'm a huge fan of Martinez and he tries to make up for it in other ways, he isn't that. I think that means we need at least one full back who is a bit taller to compensate.
 

TwoSheds

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As I said before though, it's the fact that Frimpong looks slight as well as small. Cole and Evra were also playing in teams where they had two very imposing central defenders playing alongside them. As much as I'm a huge fan of Martinez and he tries to make up for it in other ways, he isn't that. I think that means we need at least one full back who is a bit taller to compensate.
Well Fergie was always a horses for courses type of manager. Suppose you've got Dalot still as cover for left and right then it gives you options, and ideally you'd have a physical CM option too in the mould of McTominay that you could turn to if you're against a bunch of cloggers like Bournemouth or whoever.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Although we do need a RB this shouldn’t be our priority. I’ll be annoyed if we start spending money on other players that aren’t a ST. We need a ST first. We always get other players and then when it comes to getting a ST we won’t pay because the excuse will be we don’t have enough budget left.
Give this team prime van Persie & the second you have to rest any of our Midfielders or Wingers they’ll get no service.

The fact is we need upgrades all over the pitch, spend £100mil+ on any striker you like, the second we make a sub he’s starving.

This notion a striker suddenly remedied the fact we can’t keep the ball & struggle to keep a clean sheet without our first choice defence is laughable.

We all just need to hope the club gets sold & improvements are made all over the squad.
 

Zehner

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Your love for Sancho is almost frightening. The guy hasnt done anything for the past 2 years and you want to swap our (arguably) best player this season for him.
I would absolutely love Frimpong to stay but he is as good as gone and his replacements are more or less signed as it seems. At best he'll play for us for another year. Assuming we will get ~€50m for Frimpong, it is essentially "would you take Sancho for €50m on a four year contract?" and that's a no brainer for me, especially since Diaby will be leaving pretty soon as well.

Anyway, it was obviously a joke. There's no chance Sancho would go to us as we couldn't pay him and there will be enough clubs lining up for his signature should United be willing to sell him. And rightfully so, with a restart somewhere else he could become his old self and that's probably worth thrice those 50m.

I wasn't saying that he can't be a good defender due to being small, but we already have Lisandro Martinez in our defence and he will be a mainstay. When it comes to defending set pieces and crosses you need a bit of height in the team and we're sometimes lacking in that department already.

If we had a robust defence around him I wouldn't be so reticent, but I'm just imagining now how fragile we'd look at the back if we ever had to start Frimpong, Martinez and Malacia together in the same back four. It's such an easy thing for opposition teams to target in the Premier League.
That makes sense. He can jump like a frog but he's still not the best header, neither in precision nor in assertiveness.

He had extreme numbers for Dortmund and borderline world class, if not world class. I could see him bonding with Wirtz forming a great partnership. His confidence is ruined and playing in Premier League he's clearly struggling. I think going back to Bundesliga would be good for him.
Wirtz and Sancho linking up would be a sight to behold :drool:
 

Bojan Djordjic

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Give this team prime van Persie & the second you have to rest any of our Midfielders or Wingers they’ll get no service.

The fact is we need upgrades all over the pitch, spend £100mil+ on any striker you like, the second we make a sub he’s starving.

This notion a striker suddenly remedied the fact we can’t keep the ball & struggle to keep a clean sheet without our first choice defence is laughable.

We all just need to hope the club gets sold & improvements are made all over the squad.
One of our problems is that we can't put matches to bed early because we don't have a good striker. We would be able to rotate players a lot better. I remember how Cavani improved us in his first season and he could only play half the minutes he was with us for.
 

DJ_21

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Give this team prime van Persie & the second you have to rest any of our Midfielders or Wingers they’ll get no service.

The fact is we need upgrades all over the pitch, spend £100mil+ on any striker you like, the second we make a sub he’s starving.

This notion a striker suddenly remedied the fact we can’t keep the ball & struggle to keep a clean sheet without our first choice defence is laughable.

We all just need to hope the club gets sold & improvements are made all over the squad.
Do we not have Antony, sancho, eriksen and Bruno for creativity? The evidence has been there this season… we create tons and tons of chances we just don’t put them away… so yes a world class striker and finisher would help us massively and also improve our game altogether. I get what you’re saying, we all know that we need improvements everywhere and good squad depth but that won’t all happen in one window. We need to do it bit by bit unless like you said we get bought out. A ST is essential to challenging for trophy’s.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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One of our problems is that we can't put matches to bed early because we don't have a good striker. We would be able to rotate players a lot better. I remember how Cavani improved us in his first season and he could only play half the minutes he was with us for.
Bolded is exactly what I was saying in my post. A £100mil striker solves one of many issues.

We indeed create well enough with our first 11 that a striker would improve us, I’m saying that once you change that 11 & the guy up front isn’t getting good enough service anyway.

Also, we should vastly improve at the RB position for tge 1st 11 a way.
Do we not have Antony, sancho, eriksen and Bruno for creativity? The evidence has been there this season… we create tons and tons of chances we just don’t put them away… so yes a world class striker and finisher would help us massively and also improve our game altogether. I get what you’re saying, we all know that we need improvements everywhere and good squad depth but that won’t all happen in one window. We need to do it bit by bit unless like you said we get bought out. A ST is essential to challenging for trophy’s.
As above.

As for we need to improve ‘bit by bit’ you’re arguing we should spend the majority of our budget on one position where as I’m saying that’s not the only way, you know doing things bit by bit. . .

If signing Frimpong comes at the expense of signing a striker then we may as well fold as a institution, the mismanagement of the club has forced people down this all or nothing alley which it really shouldn’t be. We should be able to have both.

If we only signed a striker we wouldn’t challenge for trophies immediately because once a suspension or injury hits those creative players you listed dwindle. I’m not saying we shouldn’t sign a striker just that an RB of this character would improve us too.
 

DJ_21

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Bolded is exactly what I was saying in my post. A £100mil striker solves one of many issues.

We indeed create well enough with our first 11 that a striker would improve us, I’m saying that once you change that 11 & the guy up front isn’t getting good enough service anyway.

Also, we should vastly improve at the RB position for tge 1st 11 a way.

As above.

As for we need to improve ‘bit by bit’ you’re arguing we should spend the majority of our budget on one position where as I’m saying that’s not the only way, you know doing things bit by bit. . .

If signing Frimpong comes at the expense of signing a striker then we may as well fold as a institution, the mismanagement of the club has forced people down this all or nothing alley which it really shouldn’t be. We should be able to have both.

If we only signed a striker we wouldn’t challenge for trophies immediately because once a suspension or injury hits those creative players you listed dwindle. I’m not saying we shouldn’t sign a striker just that an RB of this character would improve us too.
100% I agree. Depends how much he’s gonna cost though, if the rumours of 50m are true then I can’t see us signing him and a striker. I think a striker will cost us at least 70m or more this summer. It also depends on how much money we make from sales. We had a really good window last summer. signed a CB, RW, DM and a LB to compete with Shaw. A RW and DM was absolutely crucial to buy this season as was a CB. Going into next season I’d say a ST, GK, another CB and CM are more crucial than a FB.
 

Krny

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Noticed ETH seems to have our fullbacks come central a lot recently and where I think Shaw can do that and excell no bother, Bissaka and Dalot aren’t as good on the ball. Both have done alright doing it but they just don’t have that composure under preasure or ability to find a pass like Shaw would.

So given ETH seems to be favouring this, how is Frimpong if he is asked to come inside to midfield with Cas and pop passes about or is he just a speed merchant that has no buisness in central areas?
He has no business in central areas. Unless he's bombed into the box and is playing a cut back.
 

OrcaFat

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While that may sound attractive, in practice, a second-choice player serves primarily for rotation and injury remplacement, and hopefully competition for the position. Cause as you can see now in United's midfield, it doesn't work if your backup players are nothing like the first choice in their positions. (In terms of style. That they're less good is normal of course.) Plus, in practice, teams very rarely have a Plan B that's significantly different from their Plan A; that's a forum pipedream. So for planning purposes, it would make most sense if the first- and second-choice players are very similar in style.
I’m not sure about that. If you never want to vary your tactics then two identical players would be ideal but in practice teams very rarely play the same tactics every match whilst ignoring the qualities of the opposition - that would be a pipe dream, imo.
 

Cheimoon

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I’m not sure about that. If you never want to vary your tactics then two identical players would be ideal but in practice teams very rarely play the same tactics every match whilst ignoring the qualities of the opposition - that would be a pipe dream, imo.
No two players are identical anyway. But mostly, what teams are actually so flexible tactically that they play fundamentally different tactics in different games? And which of those are top teams? Any examples from the EPL or other recent top teams where you have seen this? Maybe in central midfield or through playing strikers in different positions, but in a fullback position...?

Cause in United's case specifically, Ten Hag will aim to play dominant, front-foot football, he won't play hiding games anymore once he's got his own squad together.
 

OrcaFat

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No two players are identical anyway. But mostly, what teams are actually so flexible tactically that they play fundamentally different tactics in different games? And which of those are top teams? Any examples from the EPL or other recent top teams where you have seen this? Maybe in central midfield or through playing strikers in different positions, but in a fullback position...?

Cause in United's case specifically, Ten Hag will aim to play dominant, front-foot football, he won't play hiding games anymore once he's got his own squad together.
It’s a fair argument but, I think, rather idealistic. EtH is a pragmatist and first and foremost he wants to win - that means now, not when he’s got his perfect squad together.

It’s not about fundamentally different tactics, it’s about nuance, balance, small adjustments to improve the chance of victory. Playing a more defensive full back, from time to time, against a dangerous winger, is exactly the type of thing EtH would do. He’s played Fred as, more or less, a no10 before, purely as a tactical decision to suit the game. I think he would want a squad with options that allow him to alter the balance as circumstance demands. But, as you say, no two players are identical anyway.
 

Cheimoon

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It’s a fair argument but, I think, rather idealistic. EtH is a pragmatist and first and foremost he wants to win - that means now, not when he’s got his perfect squad together.

It’s not about fundamentally different tactics, it’s about nuance, balance, small adjustments to improve the chance of victory. Playing a more defensive full back, from time to time, against a dangerous winger, is exactly the type of thing EtH would do. He’s played Fred as, more or less, a no10 before, purely as a tactical decision to suit the game. I think he would want a squad with options that allow him to alter the balance as circumstance demands. But, as you say, no two players are identical anyway.
He will of course play now whatever players he has now, and use them for tactical tricks if he can; but transfers are supposed to contribute towards assembling the perfect squad for the future, not prolonging an unideal status quo. For those decisions, assuming you usually have only up to two senior players per position in a squad, I think you should prioritize having a similar option for rotation, backup, and competition, rather than a different option for the rare occasion where you set up significantly differently to adapt to another team (and for a top team like United that wants to play dominantly, those occasions will indeed be rare) - because you will have to play that different player also when the first choice is injured or suspended and you're playing opposition that you wouldn't want to adapt to in that way.

I think you can see the mess that creates right this season, when United have had to play people like Maguire and McTominay, who certainly have their uses and qualities, but not really of the kind that Ten Hag needs for his preferred style. That's why I think having similar back-up trumps buying an option for tactical variety - although it would be great if you could get that kind of player if he can function as a kind of joker that can play across multiple positions (if those exist).
 

OrcaFat

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He will of course play now whatever players he has now, and use them for tactical tricks if he can; but transfers are supposed to contribute towards assembling the perfect squad for the future, not prolonging an unideal status quo. For those decisions, assuming you usually have only up to two senior players per position in a squad, I think you should prioritize having a similar option for rotation, backup, and competition, rather than a different option for the rare occasion where you set up significantly differently to adapt to another team (and for a top team like United that wants to play dominantly, those occasions will indeed be rare) - because you will have to play that different player also when the first choice is injured or suspended and you're playing opposition that you wouldn't want to adapt to in that way.

I think you can see the mess that creates right this season, when United have had to play people like Maguire and McTominay, who certainly have their uses and qualities, but not really of the kind that Ten Hag needs for his preferred style. That's why I think having similar back-up trumps buying an option for tactical variety - although it would be great if you could get that kind of player if he can function as a kind of joker that can play across multiple positions (if those exist).
It’s a valid preference of course but I don’t think it will be rare that tactics are tweaked. Also our messy situation now is not really that the squad players have a particular style that doesn’t fit the ideal, it is the lack of quality that’s the problem.

I would agree that if you have a well established set of tactics that are working against all the teams then like for like back-ups make it easier. But I think we’re such a long way away from there that good quality is top priority and some variation of attributes is going to be worth something as well.

We may be coming at this from a different angle. I’m thinking that if we buy Frimpong or Vanderson or let’s just say an attacking RB who is bought to be first choice, there’s an argument for holding onto AWB because he has different attributes which might be preferred in some games. For as long as we’re rotating, there will be horses for courses, at least until we achieve world domination.
 

croadyman

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It’s a valid preference of course but I don’t think it will be rare that tactics are tweaked. Also our messy situation now is not really that the squad players have a particular style that doesn’t fit the ideal, it is the lack of quality that’s the problem.

I would agree that if you have a well established set of tactics that are working against all the teams then like for like back-ups make it easier. But I think we’re such a long way away from there that good quality is top priority and some variation of attributes is going to be worth something as well.

We may be coming at this from a different angle. I’m thinking that if we buy Frimpong or Vanderson or let’s just say an attacking RB who is bought to be first choice, there’s an argument for holding onto AWB because he has different attributes which might be preferred in some games. For as long as we’re rotating, there will be horses for courses, at least until we achieve world domination.
Yeah I would hold on to AWB if we bring in either of those two or Timber of course
 

DWelbz19

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Unless we manage to basically get him for the same sort of price we’d manage to get for Dalot or Wan Bissaka, I think we have far bigger priority positions… Especially if the limited budget due to FFP is correct.
 

bucky

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Apparently we're quite deep in negotiations for Frimpong. And that's information that is coming direct from Sport Bild.




Sport Bild:"The Dutchman is one of the best right-backs in the league and would fit perfectly into Real's attacking game with his speed (over 36 km/h). In addition, Frimpong (contract until 2025) is also dangerous offensively with eight goals and six assists in the league."

Problem: "Frimpong's path is also more drawn to England than to Spain. According to SPORT-BILD information, the player is relatively far with Manchester United."

https://m.sportbild.bild.de/bundesliga/vereine/bayer-leverkusen/real-madrid-es-geht-nicht-um-bellingham-real-will-zwei-bundesliga-stars-83796966.sportMobile.html###wt_ref=https://www.google.de/&wt_t=1683210585822###wt_ref=https://thehardtackle.com/&wt_t=1683235079876
Sportbild aren't reliable. Basically the Sun or Mail type of reporting.
 

bucky

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Okay, I'll delete, I didn't know which one of the Bild sources was reliable.
I mean, a broken clock is right twice a day. No need to delete, just saying. Bild are basically the Sun of Germany and mostly are just reliable for Bayern related stuff.
 

Adnan

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I mean, a broken clock is right twice a day. No need to delete, just saying. Bild are basically the Sun of Germany and mostly are just reliable for Bayern related stuff.
Tbh with you, I don't want to post crap sources, so I appreciate your feedback. There was a time I used to stay on top of these things but I'm no longer in the loop.
 

Cheimoon

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I mean, a broken clock is right twice a day. No need to delete, just saying. Bild are basically the Sun of Germany and mostly are just reliable for Bayern related stuff.
I thought Bild was quite good for football overall...? Are you located in Germany?
 
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croadyman

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Unless we manage to basically get him for the same sort of price we’d manage to get for Dalot or Wan Bissaka, I think we have far bigger priority positions… Especially if the limited budget due to FFP is correct.
Where would you put it on priority list
 

bucky

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Tbh with you, I don't want to post crap sources, so I appreciate your feedback. There was a time I used to stay on top of these things but I'm no longer in the loop.
Yeah, that's understandable.

I thought Bild was quite good fir football overall...? Are you located in Germany?
Yes, I am German.
 

Gupz

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Koeman is a twat. He is not in the squad because he can't speak Dutch.
 

NLunited

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We need to add goals and assists to our squad next season. Frimpong will do that.
 

Dazzmondo

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I like Frimpong. Think he'd improve us a lot. AWB has got a lot of plaudits but I still think he holds us back massively in attack. We create nothing on our right side except occasionally when Bruno moves out there. As long as we know we'll need someone like Case to look after that space when Frimpong vacates it, I think we'd look much more balanced. €50m is what I've heard which seems reasonable. He's a better player relative to his position than Antony was when we paid almost double that.
 

Abraxas

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I like Frimpong. Think he'd improve us a lot. AWB has got a lot of plaudits but I still think he holds us back massively in attack. We create nothing on our right side except occasionally when Bruno moves out there. As long as we know we'll need someone like Case to look after that space when Frimpong vacates it, I think we'd look much more balanced. €50m is what I've heard which seems reasonable. He's a better player relative to his position than Antony was when we paid almost double that.
Is Antony really a benchmark? He's an attacker for a start, they have higher valuations in general, and it is also widely acknowledged that we significantly overpaid to get ETH's target. So if we're comparing everything to that it's always going to look reasonable.

50 million euros for a Bundesliga right back is quite lot. Hard to spin it otherwise. Seems like a lot of our budget.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Is Antony really a benchmark? He's an attacker for a start, they have higher valuations in general, and it is also widely acknowledged that we significantly overpaid to get ETH's target. So if we're comparing everything to that it's always going to look reasonable.

50 million euros for a Bundesliga right back is quite lot. Hard to spin it otherwise. Seems like a lot of our budget.
Regardless the fees, so far our right back haven’t offer enough in comparison to what Shaw has offered on the left. I think a one footed winger like Antony and Amad will benefit so much from having quick, a progressive full back, and with end product to offer. Because it will make our right flanks unpredictable. Opposition teams will find it difficult to choose either to stop Antony/Amad to go inside or stop the right back to go outside. This also will help Amad to be integrated to the team easier without so much burden on his shoulder to do everything on the right flank.
 

Gupz

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Did he live in Manchester the majority of his life? How can he not speak his native tongue.
His parents are Ghanaian, he moved to England on age of 7. So he grew up barely speaking Dutch and never played for a Dutch team.
Official reason Koeman gives is that Frimpong is not a defending wingback, which is utter bullsh*t since the alternatives are worse or out of form.
 
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Abraxas

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Regardless the fees, so far our right back haven’t offer enough in comparison to what Shaw has offered on the left. I think a one footed winger like Antony and Amad will benefit so much from having quick, a progressive full back, and with end product to offer. Because it will make our right flanks unpredictable. Opposition teams will find it difficult to choose either to stop Antony/Amad to go inside or stop the right back to go outside. This also will help Amad to be integrated to the team easier without so much burden on his shoulder to do everything on the right flank.
I agree, I'm just not quite sure where all the money is coming from if our starting play is 50 million euros on a right back from Germany that isn't yet one of the best players around. Striker, midfield, keeper? It leaves a lot to do. Our sales better be on point I guess. Or we pick up a free transfer somewhere.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I agree, I'm just not quite sure where all the money is coming from if our starting play is 50 million euros on a right back from Germany that isn't yet one of the best players around. Striker, midfield, keeper? It leaves a lot to do. Our sales better be on point I guess. Or we pick up a free transfer somewhere.
We can sign Rabiot for free and hope it helps us to sign a keeper, striker, and new RB.

GK
RB
- Varane - Martinez - Shaw
Casemiro - Eriksen/Rabiot
Antony - Bruno - Rashford
ST
 

NLunited

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I agree, I'm just not quite sure where all the money is coming from if our starting play is 50 million euros on a right back from Germany that isn't yet one of the best players around. Striker, midfield, keeper? It leaves a lot to do. Our sales better be on point I guess. Or we pick up a free transfer somewhere.
He is in the team of the season, that does make him one of the best in the Bundesliga.
 
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