If its the same knee too, thats worrying. Hope he makes a speedy recovery as ACL are the worst.
Joe Gomez
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Someone else will be able to pull up all the stats but you’re right our front three and VVD up till this season over the last couple years preceding that have largely remained fit. Not arguing that, but we’ve had numerous injuries in other parts of the pitch. Fabinho Matip Keita Ox Henderson Gomez Allison Shaqiri have all missed significant chunks and other players have also missed the odd game or two. But those were all injuries that impact squad depth and workload and put other players in the red zone too.
Not that any of that matters now mind, but losing your best player for 1/2 a season like city did or like we’re doing with VVD for 2/3 of a season is a rarity rather than the norm. The reason we’re screwed now is we’ve had a couple long term ones and the other ones are coming all at once.
Trents injured too for 4-6 weeks
Anyways we’re majorly fecked. The narrative that we never had injuries was never true but we never had them in clusters all at once like this.
What is your back 4 looking like mate?
At the minute it’s probably going to be,
Milner Fabinho Matip Robertson
But relying on all four of those to stay fit and play most games is another huge ask and almost guaranteed to be impossible. Neco and Rhys Williams will probably see a fair few minutes and we may have to change our playing style a bit and drop deeper.
To be fair, two ACL's in the same position is rare. Also, what is the latest with VVD? When it happened there were rumours it could be a bad ACL injury. Has it been confirmed it is one that will only take 6-7 months to come back from?
It’s terribly unlucky if it is and I think he’s also had a broken leg too, it’s unfortunate on a personal level for the lad as unlike last time he had a major one there was still opportunities for him to come back in to the side as we were no great shakes defensively then. Now there’s every chance by the time he can kick a ball and be match fit he’ll find it difficult to get back in. It sounds ludicrous now but football moves quickly. Massive shame as whilst he has a few deficiencies he’s got the makings of a top centre half.
Surgery is said to have gone well with VVD, will he play again this season I have no clue, I expect he’ll want to make the euros and the best case scenario for a player recovering from an ACL is 6 months rather than 12. All depends on the player and recovery. One thing that’s imperative when he does return is he’ll definitely not or shouldn’t be rather playing every game. The risk of re injury is high and it needs to be managed as one way or another the knee is never the same again.
Hope it’s not too bad for the lad.
That said I think he’s been poor so far this season, not sure who they have available for selection to replace him though.
I feel VVD makes him look a lot better than he is.
That said I think he’s been poor so far this season, not sure who they have available for selection to replace him though.
I feel VVD makes him look a lot better than he is.
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There are teams who have more intenseive styles.
It’s funny how so many haven’t seen the change in how Liverpool play last 2 years. They have tweaked things considerably. Yes, they still work hard and still press, and of course they will be intense - as many teams are. But it’s diciplined, they actually have spells in games with their foot off the gass. Jürgen Klopp had to adapt to the league, as there is more teams in PL so more games, less time between games, more double weeks of games. And he did adapt, brilliantly as the trophies and results show.
Also, counter pressing actually can make football less intense, cos you don’t spend as much time running around after the ball as you win it back quicker. And central defenders are the least affected by the intensity and counter press. The injuries they have suffered there to Gomez and Van Dijk are not because of intesity, although Fabinho’s is probably as a result of the crazy schedule,, most teams will suffer a lot of muscle injuries due to that as the season goes on.
For the first game back it will be:
Milner, Matip, Fabinho, Robertson
Then, Matip will Matip and we will discover Fab hasn't recovered fully after all. So the next 7 PL games until January window will be:
Milner, Rhys Williams, Nat Phillips, Robertson
Strangely, I'm not too distressed for some reason. As long as Alisson stays injury free and Thiago actually plays for us.
I wonder whether they will take a punt on a free agent. I see Garay is still available so if i were Liverpool it'd enquire about the possibility of signing him on a short term fix.
Whilst it is obviously an issue the way you guys play as a unit and all the pressing should help no matter who plays in defence.
This is why when both Alisson and Van Dijk were injured that I felt Allison was the more important player because your second goalkeeper was making many more mistakes that couldnt be covered by the rest of the team.
Which CB are you linked with and think of getting? The ajax dude?
Only tearing your Achilles tendon is worse (Kobe's injury in 2013), but 2 ACLs are nothing to scoff at either. Wonder how it'll take away from his game, especially pace wise.
I feel sorry for him and obviously very bad news for England 
Well yes and no. I agree they have tweaked it slightly, but I would say if you're looking at a teams schedule and playing style over 3-5 years, Liverpool have probably had the most intense over the course of that time. Further, whilst I agree that they have become slightly more conservative and look to use the counter more these days, their style isn't a typical model. I say this, as their high line means they still continue to press a lot in the top end of the pitch. They do not exactly employ a Jose low block/quick counter approach.
Lastly, their squad has also lacked depth over this time. Essentially, VVD, the front three, Robinson, TAA and Henderson (to a lesser degree) have had to play most of the games in this span. Therefore, it is not just their style but the amount of minutes a core number of their key players have clocked up.
As for VVD and Gomez, those injuries are of course not to do with the above as one was through contact and the other was due to inherent weakness (which is unfortunate.) However, with the schedule the way it has been since May and their previous endeavors, what is happening to players such as Fabinho and TAA aren't a surprise.
Does anyone know why there being made to play friendlies at the moment with the way the schedule is in domestic football?
Money.
Because there are Euros to take place after the season and therefore national teams need to get some practice before it.
Whether the Euros should be taking place in the current schedule is a different argument. Obviously the given the money involved UEFA would not want to do that.
Sorry, I should have been more clear in my position on him previously. I genuinely thought he'd be one of England's best CBs for the next 5 years or so. Of course he's made it at Liverpool, I had extremely higher expectations for him . I don't think he's going to ever get the luck to be heralded as a great, he just has no luck with injuries.
it just seems a little silly and demanding on players doesn’t it? I mean I get they are top level athletes etc but we’re bound to see lots of top top players picking up injuries etc.
It really has to come down to money I guess.
Completely agree. Friendlies and Nations League should have been scrapped to spare the players - who gives a sh*t about these games anyway?
If they go ahead with the Euro's, then it would make sense to have 1-2 international breaks in the spring, so the teams have a chance to gel and work on tactics. These games in the fall are completely redundant and even a little reckless given the injuries we are now seeing.
What are national team managers supposed to do? They have jobs that are dependent on results next summer and in between. It be a huge disadvantage for them that they will only have a few weeks to prepare for a huge tournament. It is a real clusterfeck of a situation and the only people losing out are the players.
Doesn't help that the decisions for continuing with all these tournaments stands with different authorities, who obviously have their own interests in mind.
I would personally say the Nation's League should be ditched and you can have 2 friendlies every international break rather than 3 matches like we currently have. And then the EPL should have ditched the CC and allowed the 5 sub rule.
funny thing is, pretty much every football fan would agree with this. Yet they still go ahead
Aye, it's a collective problem. There's not been enough compromise by different bodies. Nobody is prepared to sacrifice any of their already reduced revenue streams in the interests of the greater good. The partnership working across the leagues and UEFA has been badly lacking.
I was expecting something like this to happen sooner or later. You guys play such an intensive game and with a relatively small squad. I think midfield and attack are okay this season, but failing to bring numbers into the defence has caused problems. I suspect you'll be busy in January. If you're players are lonely in the treatment room, we're selling Jones.
Its also the lasting effect it has long term. I did my ACL and tore my meniscus twice and I've just been told at 29, I have moderate to severe arthritis to the outside of my knee already and I'll need a partial or full joint replacement when I'm older.
Rivalry aside as he's a Liverpool player, I hope both he and van Dijk make full and speedy recoveries, a bad injury to have.
I'd love to see a record of how many times Klopp, Pep and the rest of the big clubs have used all 3 subs in a game this season, because Townsend citing one single match does nothing to support his point.
It's not a wholly unreasonable point but what he's overlooking is that managers are paranoid about players picking up an injury given the higher rates, leaving the team having to compete with 10 men. Certainly there are cases where a third sub could probably be made (Chelsea only using 2 against Sheffield United this past weekend comes to mind), but I can't blame managers for being more conservative.
I could be remembering this a bit wrong but I'm pretty sure Klopp has used the most subs of any manager this year - they've played 15 competitive games and he's used 43 of 45 subs is the figure I saw.
Aye. Again the problem is the top clubs have abused the spirit of the 5-subs-system, by often only making those changes when they are struggling to break down a lower-table side, rather than to manage the condition of their players. And the likes of Klopp need to take more ownership of the situation - does Trent need to play 7 times in 21 days with a pretty effective cover in Milner in prime shape on the bench? They've all got big squads and could do a far better job of using the wealth of resources at their disposal.
He's rarely wrong.
It's the same with us and Luke Shaw. His injury should surprise nobody when looking at his past and the number of games he played.
I think Klopp used all subs bar 2 games if i remember correctly.
How can they use their subs? They have to keep at least 1 for the inevitable injury late in their games.
Title of this thread should be amended
it is a mess. The problem is the rate it’s going, we’re going to miss out on some of the best players being present at the euros due to injuries! It’s not the international managers faults in any sense, it’s the powers that be but this isn’t a normal season so it shouldn’t be played as such. Health has to come over money for the players.
I agree with your suggestion. Probably the best scenario in these circumstances.
Also strongly agree regarding the 5 subs. The only people this benefits is the smaller clubs with smaller squads, not the top teams with players playing domestically, internationally and in European competitions aswell. Really unfair, considering it’s those teams and the players within them that make the premier league such a gold mine in the first place.
That's what I was looking for. Townsend citing one single match doesn't support his point in the way he thinks it does.
I agree with you both, for what it's worth. I understand why smaller clubs feel the way they do, but ultimately if the 5 subs will help big clubs manage their injuries better, it's even more important for clubs with smaller squads because losing a crucial player or two mean the difference between midtable/safety and relegation.
The unverified reports online were that it's a patellar tendon injury, which sounds like it can be as bad or worse than an acl.
Shit news for him and Liverpool. I'd be furious if I was Klopp. International football, with something as pointless as the International league during a pandemic season is just baffling.
The positive for Liverpool is that these injuries have happened before the January transfer window. They will no doubt get a couple in to cover and will still win the league.
Yeah that's an interesting point, but surely he's just referring to the game between Liverpool and City where they didn't utilise 3 subs? That was a game ahead of an international break.
I think you could make the reverse point that, come December when club games come thick and fast, lower league clubs will be at an advantage due to the fact they're not playing in Europe and most likely didn't have to see their players all go off on international duty.
Ultimately the proof will be in the number of injuries clubs have to contend with. There already seems to be loads more than normal for this point in the season, and fundamentally the rules should be there to protect players against this.
His argument is essentially the same that was made against raising 1 sub to 3, and a bench from 5 to 7. But all those decisions look good in hindsight. I think as long as you limit clubs to 3 sub-breaks in the game then you're still maintaining enough elements to stop clubs from completely using squad depth and size to their advantage.
We needed another centre back before these injuries to VVD and Gomez anyway. I think this will force us to buy a top class one in January as opposed to another back up and then going into next season VVD and our new one will be starting games with Matip and Gomez as back up.
Personally would love Upamecano or Koulibaly but whether we can get either of those in January remains to be seen.
Getting Garay in now until the end of the season would make sense and then sign another CB in January to shore up our back line.
Personally would love Upamecano or Koulibaly but whether we can get either of those in January remains to be seen.
Getting Garay in now until the end of the season would make sense and then sign another CB in January to shore up our back line.