Everyone was desperate for him. There is a good lesson in there. Don’t trust hipsters.
Jorginho | Arsenal player
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Some Chelsea fan on ShedEnd:
The whole Chelsea midfield isn't working as it should, virtually zero creativity in it, very unbalanced towards defence.
Jorginho is hitting about half the keys passes he has done on average over the rest of his career and has zero assists this season. Kante has been moved further forward and is learning the position, 1 assist per 1000 minutes in the league so far this season. Kovacic and Barkley have contributed a bit more with 5 assists in 1900 odd minutes.
If we want to play keep ball we need creativity from midfield. Ultimately I can see either us changing to a non possession based 4 3 3 counter attacking system with Kante DM, Kante being benched and us playing Barkley, Kovacic and Jorginho together or some combination of the two systems depending on the opposition and minutes being shared around.
Also need to sort the forward positions out and we should never see Hazard as false 9 again, to give midfielders more passing options.
Jorginho is hitting about half the keys passes he has done on average over the rest of his career and has zero assists this season. Kante has been moved further forward and is learning the position, 1 assist per 1000 minutes in the league so far this season. Kovacic and Barkley have contributed a bit more with 5 assists in 1900 odd minutes.
If we want to play keep ball we need creativity from midfield. Ultimately I can see either us changing to a non possession based 4 3 3 counter attacking system with Kante DM, Kante being benched and us playing Barkley, Kovacic and Jorginho together or some combination of the two systems depending on the opposition and minutes being shared around.
Also need to sort the forward positions out and we should never see Hazard as false 9 again, to give midfielders more passing options.
I don't think he is the problem. Put a Pogba or KDB ahead of him and he will thrive.
Or put him in our line up instead of Matic, wouldn't look bad.
Or put him in our line up instead of Matic, wouldn't look bad.
He would look bad. He is poor defensively.
Alternatively, everyone that didn't want him is now jumping at the chance to say they're right. I'd guess there's a lesson in there too.
I think he looked pretty good this season, on the whole. A limited player that needs the right conditions to succeed, but a very effective one in those. There's a good reason Guardiola is annoyed he didn't get him, I suspect.
There were rumours he also was interested on Fred. And we don't know if 1 of the 2 wouldn't be good for City. There is a lot of bad reaction to Jorginho because the majority thinks he came here as someone to replace Kanté. They just have different roles. The issue is collective, not only 1 individual player to blame.
I don't think that's a fair characterisation of the general view. He didn't replace Kante but he did displace him. If he didn't get Jorginho or someone similar it's plausible Sarri might have had to stretch himself and figure out a different way of playing football, which may have included Kante at the base of a more counter attacking team. In which case it's plausible Kante could've continued being a world class player, which is something Jorginho has never shown.
You might disagree but it isn't right to say it's because people just don't understand the situation. It's not that complicated.
I think he's a pointless player. Yes he can keep the ball and recycle possession again and again, but the likes of Jordan Henderson and Leon Britton can do that equally okay and i wouldn't want them in my team
He would have played Cesc there until Chelsea bought him a different DLP.
Good but painfully slow.
Of course, there's a reason why Britton didn't do that for a team that finished in the top 3 for 3 consecutive years. There's style and then there's substance. You might not like the style but dismissing the substance seems silly.
Proof that you always must wait to judge players. After few games he was labelled as a buy of the season.
And after a few more people are saying he is shit and pointless.
I am not necessarly saying only here. Its general. Media, social media you name it.
Well if he would do that he would go against everything he has done since at least his Empoli or Napoli seasons. When they hired him they should know how his teams played.
Well everyone can disagree about everything, I didn't said no one understands literally, but its not that hard to read or listen a lot of people thinking they have the same role on the team. Not making any baseless statement, its quite obvious.
Difficult when you are the only player in the midfield able to pass with some efficency. Kante is not a passer, and Kovacic is not the best at passing either.
When he played for Sarri at Napoli he had Hamsik and Allan around him. Both players able to pass, making it more difficult for the opposition to "mark/press" him out of the game as the other players would get more room.
When he played for Sarri at Napoli he had Hamsik and Allan around him. Both players able to pass, making it more difficult for the opposition to "mark/press" him out of the game as the other players would get more room.
I think it's a very dismissive and superior view to take, personally. The views you're reading
are primarily being put forward in a bastardised form, both because it's on social media and because who has the time to write thoughtful, well-rounded views on some irrelevant player. Their views are likely to be more sophisticated than you've interpreted - I find that to be true of any online commentary as a general rule.
I actually don't think Kante or Jorginho are the problem. The problem is that 3 of the 4 players ahead of them are completely useless.
They have a striker that can't score, RW that don't produce enough in terms of goals or creating chances and another midfielder who also doesn't offer enough in attack. If they had a creative midfielder, I'd say the midfield was fairly complete.
They have a striker that can't score, RW that don't produce enough in terms of goals or creating chances and another midfielder who also doesn't offer enough in attack. If they had a creative midfielder, I'd say the midfield was fairly complete.
Well it wasn't the original intention, but when someone is writing something online we sometimes miss the point. Or question of interpretation.
Of course, but that applies to everything these days.
I don't know why but I think we are saying different things to reach the same conclusion. But sometimes I am more schocked with professional analysis by the media than bastardized comments on the social media. Here we go again.
He does play like a remnant of the post Tiki-Taka era with his assortment of benign passes. However plenty of people called Chelsea to have issues with the lack of goal threat in their team, and the extreme reliance on Hazard. I think in the right set up he could useful but in team that needs more inspiration he can look a little pointless.
In my opinion if he were played in a 2 with Kanté being given a purely defensive role he would look very good. Imagine sticking a good #10 in front of them to contribute like James Rodriguez (who doesn't seem to be getting on with the current Bayern manager).
Problem is Sarri - the guy is an average manager and you can see it from his tactics.
The managers golden boy.
Just watch him closely. Can't dribble. Can't defend. Can't head. No power or pace. Cant defend. Over 2000 passes with not one assist.
Puts his hand up to receive the ball. Gets ball and passes it 5 yards sideways or backwards. Points to where next pass needs to go which is another 5 yards sideways or backwards. Puts hand up again to revieve ball and does exact same thing all over again. That is all he's got to offer. And you build a team around that in the EPL...I would LMFAO if that was being done at another club.
The guy is a chickenshit conman of a footballer!
Just watch him closely. Can't dribble. Can't defend. Can't head. No power or pace. Cant defend. Over 2000 passes with not one assist.
Puts his hand up to receive the ball. Gets ball and passes it 5 yards sideways or backwards. Points to where next pass needs to go which is another 5 yards sideways or backwards. Puts hand up again to revieve ball and does exact same thing all over again. That is all he's got to offer. And you build a team around that in the EPL...I would LMFAO if that was being done at another club.
The guy is a chickenshit conman of a footballer!
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I'm a fan of Jorginho but I don't think Rio is all that wrong. He's a very subtle player, he keeps things running but might not be cut out for the English game. And I'd agree that he needs to provide a little more offensively - never understood why he took FK's. He's horrible at that.
Yeah and we've seen it this season. When Fernandinho is unavailable they need someone to play there. As a backup he'd have done a job. Obviously not fit to lace his boots though, same as Fred who was also linked.
I don't think he improves Chelsea much and it's not because of how he's played but rather what it has done to Kante. Kante doesn't get to play his role anymore, he's not at the back closing the holes and pressuring counters but rather he's supposed to be further up the pitch and is supposed to deliver more in attack than he has because Sarri wants Jorginho deep to dictate play and he's not got room for two deep playing midfielder.
Ageeed. As a Chelsea fan he was an annoying player because perhaps upon first look he didn’t really display any elite attributes to his game so you wondered how he was so effective. But after further viewing, you realize he was so special at always playing positive, penetrating passes. Similar to De Bruyne but a lot of Carricks weren’t as forward and more subtle. He always seemed to help “initiate” tempo even if he didn’t “control” tempo like some of his contemporaries. (Xavi, Scholes, Pirlo, etc)
God damn, what a brutal post. You make him sound like a Sunday league footballer
I think overall he's been solid for Chelsea, gives them a base to build their attacks. Problem is neither Kante nor Kovacic who are ahead of him contribute anything creatively so he ends up with a situation of lot of simple pointless passes in between. Having said that all three big money £50m+ midfielders in Jorginho, Fred and Keita have failed to set the PL alight. Two of them look outright flops so far.
I think the worst thing about him is his positional sense defensively. He was at sea against arsenal IMO particularly in the first half
Don’t see a problem with him sitting there and getting on the ball if he could cover the defensive aspects - and I mean covering space and blocking avenues for passes not tacklingto be clear
The other problem I see is Luiz who is actually decent on the ball for a center back and frequently brings the ball up into his space essentially bypassing him. It’s a strange dynamic between them two that I noticed in the couple of games I have seen.
Don’t think he is absolutely shit but I could see how he would fare better in Italy rather than England.
Don’t see a problem with him sitting there and getting on the ball if he could cover the defensive aspects - and I mean covering space and blocking avenues for passes not tacklingto be clear
The other problem I see is Luiz who is actually decent on the ball for a center back and frequently brings the ball up into his space essentially bypassing him. It’s a strange dynamic between them two that I noticed in the couple of games I have seen.
Don’t think he is absolutely shit but I could see how he would fare better in Italy rather than England.
His absolute best attribute was positional. He could prevent attacks by closing space for passes which would slow down opposition attacks without making last ditch lunging tackles. Guy was top notch
I have not seen a minute of him play this season, though to get the best out of his passing range playing hazard as a false 9 and wide men who don't stretch defenses doesn't help. how do you expect him to be impactful when he has no runners to latch onto his passes in behind the opponents defense?
Is he struggling defensive wise?
Is he struggling defensive wise?
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Well he's not really excelling at long passes anyway from what I have seen this season.
Spot on. A bit like Rio at CB
May be because he has no runners running in behind defenses.
Chelsea have a number of problems and I don’t necessarily think Jorginho is the big one - he’s just a duck out of water under the current set up which has far too many square pegs in round holes.
He’s got no creative passers and dynamic goalgetters from midfield to combine with and the width in the side is not that effective at stretching the play not to mention no dynamic runners up front to stretch the play.
Jorginho needs runners and Chelsea are very lethargic and conservative positionally at the moment and it is making him go into his shell.
Someone like City or Liverpool would love someone like him and they would make it work IMO - I think he’s walked into a half baked set up at Chelsea and whilst he started well, people have clocked on to his influence and he has become far to easy to stop in his tracks and no one else in that midfield can step up to relieve the pressure off him.
Very easy to rip players apart and call them shit but as we saw with Pogba - subtle tweaks tactically, having the right players around you - can have a dramatic upturn with certain players and for me Jorginho showed enough at the start of the season to not write him off as a player - he just might be a bad fit here at Chelsea.
He’s got no creative passers and dynamic goalgetters from midfield to combine with and the width in the side is not that effective at stretching the play not to mention no dynamic runners up front to stretch the play.
Jorginho needs runners and Chelsea are very lethargic and conservative positionally at the moment and it is making him go into his shell.
Someone like City or Liverpool would love someone like him and they would make it work IMO - I think he’s walked into a half baked set up at Chelsea and whilst he started well, people have clocked on to his influence and he has become far to easy to stop in his tracks and no one else in that midfield can step up to relieve the pressure off him.
Very easy to rip players apart and call them shit but as we saw with Pogba - subtle tweaks tactically, having the right players around you - can have a dramatic upturn with certain players and for me Jorginho showed enough at the start of the season to not write him off as a player - he just might be a bad fit here at Chelsea.
Pretty much this.
I think he's a very good player, for what it's worth. Like the rest of the Chelsea team, he's struggling without the main man upfront. Kante's misfitting role doesn't help him, either.
Also, it's quite hypocritical to have praised teams for 'closing down Jorginho' earlier on in the season and now saying that he's not good anyway. He is their midfield metronome, and he would have been invaluable in our midfield in the last 6 years. He'll look far better next season, I suspect.
He would have thrived under those conditions with runners in behind and 2 top level playmakers in front while pressing from the front without the ball and quick transitions.
I was so relived they missed out on him as they would have refined their attack even more.
Anyone who thinks he is flopping clearly hasnt the slightest clue what Sarri football is about or what role he is playing. Chelsea's problems are all on the left side of midfield, on the flanks and upfront
He is good player, very system dependent player, not that there is anything wrong with that. One of the reason why I didn't want him as he would have been shit under Jose but would have loved him had we signed someone like Sarri, Tuchel as our manager.
When the team is not in good form, you will see lot of posts asking what is the point of this player, same way when you are winning you will see posts saying how he is controlling everything and everything flows through him. As usual truth lies in the middle. Hazard is and will always be the key difference maker for Chelsea team.
When the team is not in good form, you will see lot of posts asking what is the point of this player, same way when you are winning you will see posts saying how he is controlling everything and everything flows through him. As usual truth lies in the middle. Hazard is and will always be the key difference maker for Chelsea team.
The comparison of him with Carrick is weird. Carrick can defend and he’s not easily bullied. Jorginho is the opposite.
People can’t make this type of comparison just because they have one same strength but ignoring the other strength and the other weakness.
People can’t make this type of comparison just because they have one same strength but ignoring the other strength and the other weakness.