We don't have the players who can do these, that's the catch. These are the strenghts prime Ronaldo, Bale Robben had.
José Mourinho | 2018/19 Performances
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Mata, 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 are similar formations that any team that plays it keeps switching between then during the game depending on the state. The shape of the team on the pitch isn't consistent. That's not chess. Players go up and down and players on the same line keep changing. On attacking it becomes 4-3-3 and on defending the 2 forwards drop to support the defense so it becomes 4-5-1. That's normal and happens regularly.
Both are still shite and unsuited for us. We don't have wingers that occupy width and cause danger from there. We have strikers and number 10s shoehorned there. Depending on your width in such case is foolish and asking for trouble.
Of course but if you're fecking up more important and basic things, formation will have little use. What's the point of playing the ideal formation if Lukaku has his usual elephant touch inside the box ? Or if the players stand and watch Pogba with zero movement ?
I don't care what he did before at other clubs. Plain and simple, what he's shown at United isn't good enough. Not good enough in results, not good enough in the transfer market, and certainly not good enough in performances.
Don't disagree, some of the players aren't that good and need to do better. You still need to play the way that will decrease their faults the best you can.
I mean someone like Lukaku is shite in holding up the ball and his movement is rubbish, so you can't depend on him dropping deep and helping in building up of the attack. You need someone, a number 10, to be close to him and make him just a poacher, and so on.
In general it comes down to our tactical setup and approach. Sometimes it looks like we don't really tell the attacking players what to do and expect them to just click and have movements by instinct. We seriously need an attacking coach.
Yeah this talk about formation is a complete red herring. We have a fundamental problem with the whole structure. Both in defence and attack. Wolves looked way more structured and, dare i say it, coached today. It's been a huge issue for us for some time, and considering he's been here for 3 seasons you would've thought he'd have cracked it by now.
I would agree with this. This is why I consider formation not the most urgent issue at all. We are just a clueless football team.
I don't think the formation makes him do that, Mourinho clearly wants him further forward. It's because he's starved of balls that he has to do that. A number 10 would help without a doubt but Lukaku being an erratic won't help us much.
Looks like we're gonna need DDG to be on beast mode all season long
I think he wants him to play the target man role considering him playing with his back to goal too often and playing long balls from time to time to him. Problem is, he's shite in both, thus kills our chance creating as he's the main target.
For the time he's here and till we hopefully upgrade on him with a striker that plays better with his leg, we'll need to do with what we have and try to reduce his faults as much as possible. Hopefully later a top striker becomes available soon.
Subs today were a worry. Not sure how they were supposed to complement the strategy we should deployed. Brought Martial on and then stuck Fellaini in his inside left channel for long balls. What was Mata supposed to add to this? Does anyone think Mata is more likely to deliver than Sanchez at this point?
You still missed the most important thing, which is speed of transition from 451 to 433, its slow ponderous and labored. Are we actually effective with the attacking 433? No. The wide players need to be incredibly direct and penetrating to run from deep that and beat the full backs to form a effective 433, we are so slow in that, all the directness from our football is gone as a result needing to link up with the other players.
Our deep defensive line and midfield which struggles to control the play as does nkt help much either which puts added defensive responsibilities on wide players to defend and create man overloads in centre.
You're playing strikers and number 10s as your wide forwards, what are you expecting from their transition ? This formation depends so much on the wide players and we're shoehorning players out of their position there. It's the reason it's not working, so he needs to find someway else to play.
I have no doubt whatsoever that some do.
So let's not just single out the wide players because the manager shoehorns them into something they are not capable off and makes them look bad when same players have looked better under different managers.
Umm, didn't that what I'm exactly saying from the start, to switch to a more narrow formation and stop playing with width as it's not suiting our players ?
I don't understand your problem.
Exactly. Formation will work wonders if our players can come up with basic execution correctly on a regular basis.
Prior to today we won three away games and looked decent, despite not playing against top level opponents. However, in those games, there was still no team cohesion. Our players often still seem to do anything they want. The team has no structure, both in attack and defence.
It's execution is very difficult, unless you have elite players playing on top of their game with elite midfielders who can play make better than our midfielders can do. Nothing is going to change unless there is any intent to change from the manager.
I don't think they need to be elite. Wolves is the best example of that. Their players applied basic stuff all game long consistently.
I think he/she means the way Jose has us setup requires elite players. I think that what was meant anyway, hence the "nothing will change unless there is any intent to change from the manager"
Oh I see! Not sure I agree with it is worrying when said like that
Well, I do think they need to be elite to be that direct in the final third without little support and yet be deisive goal threats, if there is no speed and accuracy in the directness of play than the team either looses the ball in final third or the team needs to be more cohesive and bring the support and creative dribbling into effect while holding in to the possession andhave the ability to create in short spaces with quick one twos. In our instance we are too slow, then we try to be direct and in the end just loose possession without any support. We are fundamentally trying to do which our team does not have the capability off.
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Eh he has us in 6th. To be honest I expected us to be lower at this point.
Props for that... I guess? Still wonder how long we are going to tread water though
Props for that... I guess? Still wonder how long we are going to tread water though
The main issue is still attack (as it has been since he arrived here). He's bought Lukaku, he got Sanchez...it's still a big issue. To be honest, I'd tell him to go for this problem alone. There are teams with way worse players than us who can play better football in the final third.
With how the season is going early on - I really can't see us making the top 3 and to be honest, that's not good enough. Even scraping the top four is pretty shite for the money he's spent and the reputation both United and he himself has.
Think it's clearly his last season. Hope we get the right man in after.
With how the season is going early on - I really can't see us making the top 3 and to be honest, that's not good enough. Even scraping the top four is pretty shite for the money he's spent and the reputation both United and he himself has.
Think it's clearly his last season. Hope we get the right man in after.
How has Sarri implemented his philosophy & style of play so quickly? Yet Jose needs 500m & 3 years?
Even Emery has implemented his style
To an extent.
Even Emery has implemented his style
To an extent.
Jose Moyesinho will never win another major trophy for the rest of his career. Remember Moyes only bought Fellaini and Mata and look how much Jose has had to spend and we are still playing the same shite football as under Moyes. He's fecking past it and his arrogance is pathetic as everytime he gets frustrated he keeps pointing to what he has won in the past, the exact same reason he called Wenger a "specialist in failure" for. We are the richest club in the world and make teams like Brighton and Wolves look like Barcelona because we have europes most inept ownership accompanied with a manager who is living in the past while teams like fecking Chelsea Liverpool and City look miles ahead of us. I honestly don't know wtf happened to Mourinho but I think that Madrid stint fecked his head up. It's really hard to understand how such a successfull manager has become so absolutely shit.
I think Jose doesn't honestly know what to do with this team anymore, I feel he thinks he's doing his best but it doesn't seem to transmit to the players and because of that he's now lost but he can't admit that.
Jorginho and Kante together are a tasty midfield duo along with hazard up front, they both are proactive midfield controllers and control the play a lot better than Pogba and a 30 year old Matic can do which gives an edge to their midfield as per my view to play much more free flowing attacking football without the fear of being caught on the back in the counter. I think Chelsea will have a top season with that midfield.
He's a good coach.
Agreed, my point was more Sarri knows what profile of player fits his style and went and got it done. Jose had so many chances to do this and has failed.
If you had told any Utd fan during LVG time that in a couple season we’d have a midfield of Pogba & Matic they’d have gone crazy. It’s style not personal that’s wrong.
The solution to this problem probably involves coaching them better but that's not really his style so I don't see what we can expect him to do. Buy Hazard to replace Sanchez? (Hazard left and Sanchez right was my dream
)Jose's reputation is falling in the market very quickly with his approach to tactics with top players at other clubs made to look very Bad under him. He is failing to convince players we should be getting to join his project. Both Kante and Jorginho have Snubbed us, Mane did not come, Silva, Even willian.
Fellaini is decent for knock ons as Lukaku was quiet.
If he hadnt done that,people would be moaning he shut up shop to protect the 1-0 lead.
I think we'll struggle to get top 4 this season. I have a feeling his days are numbered. At best, until the end of the season. Its a shame, I like him.
He's not here to please the moaners though, he's here to win games, 1-0 or not, I don't give a shit myself. Today all the bad started with this idiotic change.
I know but was just saying.
Had we won today it wouldnt have been an issue.
It still is an issue that we just can't create more chances and score more goals and grind our way through out the season when other clubs just score them with ease.
100% this.
Can anyone produce a form guide for this calendar year?
I'd like to see our W, D, L and GD stat.
I'd like to see our W, D, L and GD stat.
It's better he steps down after this season however we perform and wherever we finish. We need a proper coach and he's not the one.
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