Jose is making a squad of warriors!

[Adebesi]

I don't think there has ever been a right or wrong way. Different managers have different approaches that can work equally well.

Sir Alex: Mostly kept behind closed doors, knew who to put an arm around and who to give a rollocking and would maintain balance this way.

Mourinho: Has no time for what he views as weak mentality in his squads, he challenges them publicly to test them and drives out the players he believes can't motivate themselves or won't run through walls for him.

And so it returns again to the question of Mourinho's longevity. In my mind at least. This is where I worry.

If he can make his way work over the long term Ill live with it, my issues with it are far more practical, if that is the right word, than ideological. I do find it a bit distasteful as I said but I wont dwell on it if we are winning and the squad remains motivated and happy season after season. My worry is this is why people feel he has this 3-4 year shelf life, which I do not fully subscribe to, but do not completely dismiss out of hand either. And the more we see of this side of him, the more it plays on the back of my mind.

 

[Theonas]

I think the term is being taken a bit too literally here by some. It's a mind set. Zlatan has it. Herrera, Baily, Valencia, Carrick, and others. Not saying these fellows aren't legitimately hurt, but a 'footballer' does you no good if he spends more time in the recovery pool than on the pitch. It's the same in all sports, business, what have you.

I was indeed a bit disingenuous. I am just tired of this attitude about focusing on things like "fight" and "passion" and what have you. We see it with England as well after every failure "ah the players are not passionate". As I said in another post, there is a big difference between having fight and grit as an element of your game that you can call upon when needed, and having it to be THE main element of your game. The former is necessary for any success, the latter varies in degrees between different successful clubs throughout and in my view, can never carry consistent success. I feel when people focus on that, it is not necessarily wrong, I am not really sure how might of a fight or passion do our players have, it's such a vague concept that people simply assume in hindsight. It is however distracting from the most essential element to be consistently good, which is being good at football.

I do question Jose making a public issue of it as well. I don't think I'd do that, but he's won a few more trophies and titles than I have.

I don't like that argument at all because it assumes there is one trait or approach that leads to success. Success has been reached by tough disciplinarians, mild mannered personalities, tactic obsessed, man management geniuses, and the list goes on. There is no one way or type of personality to achieve success. You need a bit of everything, the degrees to which decides what type of success you are going to have.

 

[cjg-888]

Spoiler: Warriors

 

[Randall Flagg]

why cant he make things work behind closes doors anyway? I just cannot see the point in some of his comments.

Creates needless headlines and gossip

Turns fans against the players, which helps nobody really

Doesn’t say much for JM if he cannot motivate his players without resorting to this

 

[TheBiggest]

What we have is a manager who is IN CHARGE.

My biggest fear over the past few seasons (with managers in and out) was that it would become part of the culture of the club.

It's part of the fabric at clubs like Real Madrid and Chelsea, where managers come and go every 24-months. This gives the players much more control over the dressing-room and is a massive problem.

We have hired the right man at the right time; he totally owns that dressing-room. We won't become like Chelsea where players hound managers out and we won't become like Real where players hound managers out. Mouirnho got hounded out of both clubs, but he's not the only one - I can think of many managers, great ones such as Ancelotti (again, BOTH clubs) Scolari, Hiddink, Villas Boas, Grant, Benitez (BOTH clubs) Pellegrini, Ramos...all hounded out by player power. Players become more powerful when they know owners will sack managers...

Thank feck we are not turning into a club like that.

If Mourinho (and he got us at just the right time before we were turning into one of those clubs) gets us going in the right direction, and I'm pretty certain he will, I feel he'll be here for a looooong time.

There's a myth about Mouirnho that he leaves every club after 3 years...that's baloney. He has left smaller clubs for bigger challenges and been sacked by these horrible clubs with player power....at United, he will stay as long as he's wanted. If he's winning, he can stay as long as he wants.

Things are looking good for us! And it's down to Mourinho. He has totally flipped the mentality of the dressing-room.

 

[Jaxdan]

I was indeed a bit disingenuous. I am just tired of this attitude about focusing on things like "fight" and "passion" and what have you. We see it with England as well after every failure "ah the players are not passionate". As I said in another post, there is a big difference between having fight and grit as an element of your game that you can call upon when needed, and having it to be THE main element of your game. The former is necessary for any success, the latter varies in degrees between different successful clubs throughout and in my view, can never carry consistent success. I feel when people focus on that, it is not necessarily wrong, I am not really sure how might of a fight or passion do our players have, it's such a vague concept that people simply assume in hindsight. It is however distracting from the most essential element to be consistently good, which is being good at football.

I don't like that argument at all because it assumes there is one trait or approach that leads to success. Success has been reached by tough disciplinarians, mild mannered personalities, tactic obsessed, man management geniuses, and the list goes on. There is no one way or type of personality to achieve success. You need a bit of everything, the degrees to which decides what type of success you are going to have.

I really don't disagree with any of your points. It's all good. It's just that I'm sure there is much more going on behind the scenes and in private than any of us know. I agree though, I'd much prefer it not to be aired out through the media. They make up enough crap on their own, without being fed more from our head man.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I am tired of soft players.
We had players complaining about seeing videos of their mistakes under Van Gaal. Ffs!
Over the past three years,we've had a team that will look for any excuse to lose games.
It's remarkable. I never wanted Mourinho here. But now, I couldn't be happier we brought him.
The mentality of the club had been destroyed.

Great post. I am so damn tired of soft players. United need the winning mentality back.

 

[Jaxdan]

Spoiler: Warriors

I forgot Robert Plant was in that movie.

 

[prtk0811]

Reminds me so much of this movie scene on real life coach.

 

[Silverman]

Obviously, it was meant as in a warrior mentality. Doubt Jose will be lining up with Charlie Adam and Lee Cattermole in the centre of our midfield next season.

 

[clarkydaz]

wont play with a broken toe? That's a paddlin'

 

[Thepinhead]

I don't get why it is such a big problem that Mourinho calls the players out. It's not like he is leaking anything to the press anonymously. He is answering the journos questions honestly and speaks his mind.

Like what was he supposed to say when they asked him over and over again why shaw didn't start and why mkhitaryan wasn't in the squad. Should he lie? Or should say no comments? Like that wouldn't get the journos going writing all kinds og conspiracies. This way people know why they aren't playing and it is only fair that a manager in todays football defends himself because you know how quickly players stab you in the back once the media goes against the manager

 

[Oscie]

Yes they are brave little soldiers.

 

[MadMike]

I don't get why it is such a big problem that Mourinho calls the players out. It's not like he is leaking anything to the press anonymously. He is answering the journos questions honestly and speaks his mind.

Like what was he supposed to say when they asked him over and over again why shaw didn't start and why mkhitaryan wasn't in the squad. Should he lie? Or should say no comments? Like that wouldn't get the journos going writing all kinds og conspiracies. This way people know why they aren't playing and it is only fair that a manager in todays football defends himself because you know how quickly players stab you in the back once the media goes against the manager

Don't be silly. Here:

Reporter: "Why isn't Shaw playing?"
JM: "We're just playing with Darmian at the moment, he deserves his chance. That's all"

...end of story. You can handle a question very simply without criticising the player, without lying and without inviting too many questions. Jose is not stupid. If he criticises players it's intentional, not because the press somehow cornered him and he had to answer by divulging every detail.

 

[ivaldo]

why cant he make things work behind closes doors anyway? I just cannot see the point in some of his comments.

Creates needless headlines and gossip

Turns fans against the players, which helps nobody really

Doesn’t say much for JM if he cannot motivate his players without resorting to this

It shows he doesn't pander to the players reputation and demands. Which is exactly what we have seen over the last 3 seasons.

Mourinho reinstating a mentality from the Ferguson era. So do you say the same about Ferguson motivational ability too? He's resorted to public criticism on several occasions.

We've seen a marked improvement in other players who have been publicly criticized, including support from a player who has been subject to it. It clearly has its merits.

 

[Attila]

Maybe. Im repeating myself now but my feeling is if he has spoken to them in private and its had no effect, Id sooner he just froze them out and sold them. Id sooner he gave chances to fringe players than used the media to achieve a result that a quiet word couldnt achieve.

I know there are different players who respond to things differently. But for me that's a carrot vs. stick question, not a public lashing vs a private lashing question.

He's not really in a position to freeze them out with all the injuries and games piling up

 

[MadMike]

It shows he doesn't pander to the players reputation and demands. Which is exactly what we have seen over the last 3 seasons.

Mourinho reinstating a mentality from the Ferguson era. So do you say the same about Ferguson motivational ability too? He's resorted to public criticism on several occasions.

We've seen a marked improvement in other players who have been publicly criticized, including support from a player who has been subject to it. It clearly has its merits.

Mourinho has criticised more players in his 8 months at United than Fergie did in his last 8 years though.

Also fans usually consider "player criticism" something Fergie wrote in his autobiography several years later, often after the player had left the club. Which is entirely different to something to the press while it's happening and while the player is still part of your team.

 

[King.of.Red]

yup. this is the mentality that each player in an elite team like Man United must have. And it's great that there is no a lot of senior / big star players in our current squad like in Real Madrid or Jose wont be successful with this "improving mentality thing" method. hopefully next season Jose and our players manage to lift EPL trophy.

 

[Randall Flagg]

It shows he doesn't pander to the players reputation and demands. Which is exactly what we have seen over the last 3 seasons.

Mourinho reinstating a mentality from the Ferguson era. So do you say the same about Ferguson motivational ability too? He's resorted to public criticism on several occasions.

We've seen a marked improvement in other players who have been publicly criticized, including support from a player who has been subject to it. It clearly has its merits.

Ferguson did it a couple of times over a span of 25 years.

JM has done it numerous times with numerous players in the space of a few months.

I don’t see a marked improvement in Shaw or Martial compared to early this season. I thought Shaw started well and Martial was hit and miss. Martial is still hit and miss and Shaw looks decent again but not improved and obviously neither look as good as they did last season, likewise with Smalling.

 

[ravi2]

Great!!!!! Hope Tony Pulis or Sam Allardyce will be available to take over if Jose leaves.

 

[Varun]

Certain caftards have the unique ability to turn positives about the club they support into incredible negatives to take pot shots at our manager or players. Absolutely incredible. I doubt anyone here's a big enough feckwit to believe that mental toughness and footballing ability is somehow a tradeoff so it's really odd to put it mildly why some would twist this to take shots at Mourinho.

 

[Adebesi]

He's not really in a position to freeze them out with all the injuries and games piling up

We're talking about freezing out players who are not making themselves available in the midst of an injury crisis. Smalling and Jones. How is freezing them out changing the situation we are already in? What Im saying is, if Mourinho feels this way and is going out and saying this and that to the press, instead of that, talk to the players, say he needs them, if they dont respond, then they should be at the back of the queue, of course if they suddenly are available and we need them, we have no other options, play them, but they should be at the back of the line and then this summer sell them. That strikes me as a cleaner and less divisive way of handling it. By the time these two make themselves available we may have more options again, but if Mourinho feels they arent fighting for him, they shouldnt be getting back into the team unless we have no other options.

And obviously not for tonight, but in games like Swansea, bring in TFM or Tuanzebe if needed, these kids are desperate to impress and obviously have talent, I imagine theyll be more up for it than Smalling who might only be playing because of the pressure of reading he should be playing in The Daily Mail.

 

[shield]

Good to hear about the mentality. But this could come at a cost. Like, we might have to deal with losing players who he thinks does not fit this mentality criteria.

Like, we all love Martial, Shaw and Mkhi. But Mourinho seems to find something wrong with their mentality and so he does not trust them that much. So, as fans, we will have to get used to even big name players being benched or even sold. This might be a little difficult for us.

 

[Theonas]

Youre right, its an endless sea of grey.

I dont really disagree with much of what you are saying there. I think Mourinho is in a better position to judge than you seem to imply, you have two groups, the player and the doctor in one, Mourinho and us fans in the other. I would say Mourinho is closer to the player and the doctor, seeing as he has access to both, along with his own experience and regular observation of the player.

I think he should be pushing the players pretty hard. Maybe he pushes them too hard, maybe he doesnt. Im happy with what he is doing overall, but less how he is doing it. Its the publicity thing that worries me, not the demands themselves. At the end of the day if the players arent up to it they should leave and play for a manager that will get more out of them. The way I see it, we made Mourinho the manager so we should let him do things his way. And I say again, I did find us too soft, too mentally fragile, in previous seasons. Part of it was about lacking leadership on the field, part of it was losing that never-say-die attitude we used to have. Mourinho looks like he is addressing that, I am pleased about it. Not that he is creating a team of Terrys, simply that he is making us more like what we were under SAF - a bloody tough team he would not be pushed around by anybody. I just wish he would take a different route to reach that destination. Though it may be that in a few seasons his methods will have been vindicated and Ill come to feel I was wrong about this. It wouldnt be the first time.

Fair enough. You have a point that Mourinho might be better positioned to make such judgements that I implied. The bolded part is what I don't understand though. I keep reading these arguments and I keep wondering the same thing, how can anyone see that? If a team repeatedly crumbles under pressure during a season or during specific parts of a game like Arsenal have been doing for a decade, I can see a pattern that suggest a mental weakness. But apart from them, I just don't understand where that argument comes from. To me it seems we are simply lacking in certain areas. Under LvG, we were too slow and ponderous in the final third which made opening up a defence almost impossible. We were barely ever under any pressure from the opponents, and we were rarely overwhelmed by the physicality or aggression of anyone. Under Mourinho, our problem is similar in the sense that we struggle in the final third but for different reasons. With LvG, we were trying very hard to construct passing patterns, whereas with Mourinho we are leaving it all the hands of players and their creativity. Two approaches, same end product. I just don't see crumbling under pressure to any degree that would make a clear detectable pattern. I see us huffing and puffing every game and always struggling when we are supposed to attack and take the game to the opposition for one reason or another.

 

[Thepinhead]

Don't be silly. Here:

Reporter: "Why isn't Shaw playing?"
JM: "We're just playing with Darmian at the moment, he deserves his chance. That's all"

...end of story. You can handle a question very simply without criticising the player, without lying and without inviting too many questions. Jose is not stupid. If he criticises players it's intentional, not because the press somehow cornered him and he had to answer by divulging every detail.

Maybe ye. Dunno I kinda like that everything is being shaken up and looked at in full daylight. Too much rotten stuff in the club that needs clearing out, and too many people not worth their salary. It's about time people are being held accountable for their actions. United have become such a big club now that it is easier to hide while taking home the bacon.

 

[Theonas]

Maybe ye. Dunno I kinda like that everything is being shaken up and looked at in full daylight. Too much rotten stuff in the club that needs clearing out, and too many people not worth their salary. It's about time people are being held accountable for their actions. United have become such a big club now that it is easier to hide while taking home the bacon.

Seriously, what does this post mean? Who do you mean by holding accountable? The staff or the people working at the club or specifically the players? If it's the former, it's not really the manager's job and more importantly, how on earth would you or anyone who is not working the club know? If it's the latter, do you think there are playing who are actively phoning it in at the club or do you think they are not good enough?

 

[Thepinhead]

Seriously, what does this post mean? Who do you mean by holding accountable? The staff or the people working at the club or specifically the players? If it's the former, it's not really the manager's job and more importantly, how on earth would you or anyone who is not working the club know? If it's the latter, do you think there are playing who are actively phoning it in at the club or do you think they are not good enough?

I think there are a lot of players over the last couple of years that haven't pulled their weight. Not just in this club but in many clubs. We pay some of the highest salaries in the World and you would expect the players to atleast give their all and sacrifice themselves a bit for the club and fans.

 

[GailSpaceWynand]

Mourinho is Slytherin through and through, surely.

He even tried gouging someone's eyes once iirc, in memory of the fallen basilisk.

 

[ivaldo]

Mourinho has criticised more players in his 8 months at United than Fergie did in his last 8 years though.

Also fans usually consider "player criticism" something Fergie wrote in his autobiography several years later, often after the player had left the club. Which is entirely different to something to the press while it's happening and while the player is still part of your team.

Remember it was the squad Ferguson built, from his own hand selected players. The need for criticism was rare. Jose has inherited a team of, to be blunt, losers. I'm sure everyone when pressed will admit there's been a serious lack of commitment and winning mentality over the last few years.

There's actually several instances of public criticism about specific players, you'll be suprised how often he did it, have a quick Google.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Good to hear about the mentality. But this could come at a cost. Like, we might have to deal with losing players who he thinks does not fit this mentality criteria.

Like, we all love Martial, Shaw and Mkhi. But Mourinho seems to find something wrong with their mentality and so he does not trust them that much. So, as fans, we will have to get used to even big name players being benched or even sold. This might be a little difficult for us.

Agree, I am glad to hear it, but we play the 'worry' today: De Bruyne

 

[ivaldo]

Ferguson did it a couple of times over a span of 25 years.

JM has done it numerous times with numerous players in the space of a few months.

I don’t see a marked improvement in Shaw or Martial compared to early this season. I thought Shaw started well and Martial was hit and miss. Martial is still hit and miss and Shaw looks decent again but not improved and obviously neither look as good as they did last season, likewise with Smalling.

You haven't seen an marked improvement in motivation? Martial ran more than he's run all season after that criticism and, quite fairly received public praise for his performance. Shaw has come out publicly to declare his intention to battle for his place and Mourinho has since praised him for his performance against Anderlecht and has stated he has won his trust. People seem to forget Jose is just as willing to give positive feedback in public as he is negative.

 

[Zlatattack]

A lot of top players regularly play with injuries. Terry recently said how his toe took 6 months to recover because he kept training with it. This is someone who was benched, he could have taken the time to let it recover, but he didn't want too. At the end of the day though, you can't put money ahead of your body. I won't hold a grudge against a player taking the full time the doctor says to recover.

I read an alarming article by one of favourite players, Gabriel Batistuta. He talked about how he played through injuries etc, long term after retirement it help him in crippling pain. He talked about how one day he wet the bed because he couldn't bare the pain of walking to the toilet in the morning. He asked his doctors to amputate his legs!

http://www.worldsoccer.com/news/gabriel-batistuta-asked-legs-amputated-356207

I appreciate this is an extreme case, but at the end of the day, football is a job. It's a dream job no doubt, but a job nonetheless. I wouldn't risk long term physical injury for work, we shouldn't expect it of our players, even though there is a culture of it in professional football.

For me Mourinho is wrong on this one.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

And the previous two years we had a manager with the reputation of a madman. It is not like Mourinho is taking over for some touchy, sensitive type manager.

 

[Sky1981]

Good for them

Crying to the press over some fecking chips under moyes this lot.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

You haven't seen an marked improvement in motivation? Martial ran more than he's run all season after that criticism and, quite fairly received public praise for his performance. Shaw has come out publicly to declare his intention to battle for his place and Mourinho has since praised him for his performance against Anderlecht and has stated he has won his trust. People seem to forget Jose is just as willing to give positive feedback in public as he is negative.

Great post. That was a totally different Martial than earlier in the year. Tracking back etc...It was great to see, and I was so happy for him to get that great goal.

 

[The Purist]

Great!!!!! Hope Tony Pulis or Sam Allardyce will be available to take over if Jose leaves.

 

[Theonas]

I think there are a lot of players over the last couple of years that haven't pulled their weight. Not just in this club but in many clubs. We pay some of the highest salaries in the World and you would expect the players to atleast give their all and sacrifice themselves a bit for the club and fans.

How can you know something like that? The level of commitment of the modern player is more than at any point in history in terms of their diets and training. Are you just saying they aren't pulling their weight because we have not doing well? Because that would imply you think the only difference between success and failure is for the players to do their best. I am sure you understand it's more complicated than that.

 

[redspoony]

I am tired of soft players.
We had players complaining about seeing videos of their mistakes under Van Gaal. Ffs!
Over the past three years,we've had a team that will look for any excuse to lose games.
It's remarkable. I never wanted Mourinho here. But now, I couldn't be happier we brought him.
The mentality of the club had been destroyed.

Agree completely.

I want us to be a snarling team again, while playing good football.

 

[dichinero]

I prefer a squad of tactically and technically adept players, giving their best while being happy to do so.

Asking for too much eh?

 

[Adebesi]

I keep reading these arguments and I keep wondering the same thing, how can anyone see that?

For me it's quite simple, it's our unbeaten streak. Yes we need to work on turning draws into wins. I've even found myself on that side in debates in other threads, saying maybe too much is being made of it. But the fact is we have become consistently hard to beat, and I think that demonstrates an improvement on our mental strength.