No one expects any club to crank out worldie youth products every other year though, you disingenuously saying Rafinha is Barcelona's last best youth product doesn't take from the fact that they have a much better track record than ours regarding in-house development in the modern era. Plus, Barcelona and Bayern do still manage to remain competitive despite managerial changes, and you'll hardly ever hear "he needs his own full team before we can judge" type of ridiculous arguments from their fanbases that you often see in this thread to excuse/defend Mourinho. There's also a consistency in terms of approach to play and recruitment, and those are some of the points i was making to your "What's the solution? Lets chuck millions on a manager every year and if he doesnt get it right, we will try another one?" question (you can't just cherry pick sentences to reply to while ignoring how they were contextualized).
They can because their league is very less competitive compared to the PL. Bayern are in a single team league with more resources and the first pick of any of player in the league and yet for all the chopping and changing of the managers, including Guardiola they have won the CL once in the last ten years, same as us. Barcelona and Real have had two of the greatest players of this generation who have been carrying the team and yet either of the teams will have supposedly had a bad season if Real win/lose the CL.
People always refer to City winning nothing last season, and us winning the carabao cup and europa as if its some sort of ginormous triumph, personally, I find it comical considering the improvement they have made and where they are now. Also, though understandably, maybe justifiably even, I feel expectations for us have changed so quickly and to me that's somewhat sad. I'd trade you City's past two seasons for ours in a heartbeat.Like I said, it’s not like we are out here ugly winning and lifting important trophies. We are a b tier cup competition team, that looks eons away from being able to compete for the most coveted trophies
And I would trade the last 10 years of ours to theirs. I am sorry, but calling the trophies such as FA cups as not coveted shows how much we have been spoilt as a fanbase. Liverpool fans would bite your hands off if they could have won a few in the last few years. Yes, they seem to have a better season now and comparing it to ours just based on this year is very narrow-minded and short termed view, atleast in my opinion.
Klopp and Mourinho have been at their current clubs for a similar amount of time, Mourinho with considerably more resources and arguably a better set of players, on paper at least, has, imo, shown less improvement in terms of coherent and purposeful play as a team. Furthermore, while several players at Liverpool have improved under Klopp, ours have regressed under Mourinho. Despite him not lifting trophies, Liverpool didn't just keep Klopp around in a vacuum or out of the goodness of their heart, the progress has been substantial even under non optimal circumstances like losing arguably their best player. I find that hypothetical question weird because its posits Klopp not winning anything as an eternal recurring event. But yes, I'd rather us be playing current Liverpool football than current Manchester football, and in the same vein, I'd rather we were in the CL final instead of in the FA cup final, even if it meant us switching places with them on the table. The gap between us isn't exactly grand canyon like on the table, and that's mostly due to them having an inconsistent start to the season. Based on current evidence, I feel if Klopp had the resources available to Mourinho at United, he'd be doing a better job than Mourinho is.
But the expectations from both the fanbase were entirely different. We are expected to win "atleast the league" every year, whereas, Klopp keeping them in the top 4 alone would be seen as progress for them.
Again most of what you say, it's just your own view, and I don't agree with it and the only metric which can be used to see who has had better is only in terms of either league position or the trophies, which you just ignore as "second tier".
As you mentioned, they have been both at the clubs in similar timeframe and yet one has managed to win the trophies which the other bottled, so it is a fair question to ask, whether you would rather win trophies, albeit "second tier", or just see some good football and win like a trophy every 10 years. You prefer the latter and there is nothing wrong with it.
I never once mentioned "United tradition" or anything of the like, you're projecting other people's arguments onto me and I'd ask you to remain objective if possible, please. I think United should strive to be a club that competes at and for the highest/most coveted trophies while playing a brand of attacking football. Those are my personal beliefs, and I'd hazard a guess that is/was part of our appeal and one of the core elements that formed the platform for both our sporting and commercial success.
I never claimed you did. And as I mentioned earlier, the kind of expectations you have have been observed only like under two managers in our entire history. Good luck with finding the next one.
Being overtly reliant on a/the manager is not the most efficient way to go about things these days, not for long-term and continuous success imo. I feel our structure has to change so as to allow us to be able to course correct asap all the while mitigating the negative effects of a potential managerial change.
I agree we cannot rely on managers to bring in long term success, but I don't believe any of the teams in the PL is going to do that anyway.
I don't think its as easy as you make it sound. As I said previously we are still reflecting on the Fergie era. To me, the most important thing is to keep the winning mentality going. We could either try to overhaul and put together a master plan of structural change, but during that process, we may slip behind the rest like Liverpool did in the 90's, or just win stuff, albeit being "second tier" and keep moving forward. People just mention Liverpool and city's season as some sort of success/benchmark but just fail to realize how many managers/crappy seasons they had to go through before they stumbled on it. Its, as they say, be careful what you wish for.
