He knows more about football than anyone here and more than most people in football so of course he was right about a lot of things. The problem was not his decisions or evaluation of players per se. The problem is that his very essence as a manager is simply incompatible with any club that wants to play modern pro active football which is what we should aspire to. Add to that, he has an overly emotional and insecure personality that simply turns off everyone around him to the point of creating an environment that is toxic beyond repair wherever he goes. It is for these two reasons that he was and will never be a natural fit for us or any club that aims to be one of the absolute elites. That has nothing to do with ability to diagnose problems and understand football.
Jose Mourinho - Was He Right?
- Thread starter sugar_kane
- Start date
You're taking the whole thread wrong. It's not OGS vs Mourinho, it's the structure, culture, and the players.
"Overhyped... overpaid" It's. It OGS fault, but perhaps it's truth that managers now ain't given much of say at this club. See Martial new contract, and his performance after those weeks. With what Moyes, LVG Mourinho all said about negotiation of the renewal is not their duty, I doubt OGS had say about this.
Last edited:
People are still lamenting not signing Perisic 
He was right that our squad is absolute dross. He was right on Martial. He was right on Pogba (although he went about it the wrong way). He was right on the lack of commitment from the squad.
He was right, but he went about it the wrong way and deserved his sacking.
He was right, but he went about it the wrong way and deserved his sacking.
I presume you mean wasn't Jose. I think the main problem is we have a squad full of squad players. If we don't play Young or Lingard, who plays instead? Sanchez and Darmian or Rojo. Thing is, they're all rubbish, so it doesn't really make a difference if they play 45, 60 or 90. None of them are going to make a valuable contribution.
I'm not sure whether they're all slackers, have no confidence or are just rubbish. I err towards the latter two tbh. Yea some players can be slackers, Pobga and Martial for example but mostly we've got squad rotation players starting in every position. Couple that with the clear void of confidence in everyone but Fred and McT and you get the rubbish performances we serve up.
Last edited:
We need a leader, both in a manager (I think Ole can do it, just hope this dip in form hasnt rattled him.) and in a player. The team needs to work together and communicate more while also being closer together. It’s like they are instructed to spread so far apart to confuse the opposing team but it leads everyone isolated.
We need to move towards the ball more and open up for whoever has it. After the second goal it was almost as if no one wanted it. But even more than that the mentality of the team is better off that even if a game is out of reach to hold the unit tight and strong.
In other words, keep the team and mentality the same regardless of the score. Because then when we’re only one goal down or a game is slightly out of reach we stay consistent and therefore remain strong. And then when we’re up we keep scoring. Getting behind that mentality is key. I’ve been behind games by 4 and with positivity and playing off the over confidence of the other team we’ve come back. The team were so heart broken- and after the first game we proved we could do better.
The right captain of the team would have kept us in it to be honest. Didn’t see anything like that from Pogba or Young.
So in other words
Leadership
Compact play
Communication
We need to move towards the ball more and open up for whoever has it. After the second goal it was almost as if no one wanted it. But even more than that the mentality of the team is better off that even if a game is out of reach to hold the unit tight and strong.
In other words, keep the team and mentality the same regardless of the score. Because then when we’re only one goal down or a game is slightly out of reach we stay consistent and therefore remain strong. And then when we’re up we keep scoring. Getting behind that mentality is key. I’ve been behind games by 4 and with positivity and playing off the over confidence of the other team we’ve come back. The team were so heart broken- and after the first game we proved we could do better.
The right captain of the team would have kept us in it to be honest. Didn’t see anything like that from Pogba or Young.
So in other words
Leadership
Compact play
Communication
He was right but he not so much rocked the boat, but capsized it with his negativity.
yup, stupid typo.
Lingard isnt even good enough to be a squad player. What has young been offering of late than a young and hungry academy prospect couldnt give us? I dont believe its a confidence issue. I believe its shitty attitude in the dressing room. too many media darlings thinking they can do what they like and woody backing that up.
Thing is, Im not sure the managers have been making the transfers. At least theyve not been getting the final say. I though LVG was shit. I couldnt the seconds for him tto be sacked. But on reflection and seeing how these players are and how jose was, I cant say its anything other than player power ruling over the market brain of woody. Jose supposedly brought fred and myki, yet he didnt play them. Didnt really know what to do with them at all. So why buy them? Theres lots of things you can say about jose, but is crap at picking players one of them? Then theres all the years of rooney being first choice and captain. How does someone who has declined that much get so much power and wages? Only the market department can answer that one.
I can put my hand up now and say I judged LVG too harshly, and jose as well. The excuses that have come and gone, the players that turn it on when they want to have clear attitude problems, yet they still get picked first. How? How is lingard getting picked to start games? How is an injured lingard who couldnt last 10 minutes getting picked ahead of a fully fit sanchez? Theres no real logic to a lot of whats going on unless you take marketing, sponsorships, social media buzz, ect into account. And that, is no way to run a football club.
Was he right that we clearly have a mix of mental and cultural problems at the club? Absolutely.
Given that he was literally paid to rectify that, he also highlighted his own, miserable failings at the club when he pointed it out. In truth, the number of times he manage to highlight his own failings throughout his years at the club was quite astonishing.
Hopefully OGS can turn it around.
Given that he was literally paid to rectify that, he also highlighted his own, miserable failings at the club when he pointed it out. In truth, the number of times he manage to highlight his own failings throughout his years at the club was quite astonishing.
Hopefully OGS can turn it around.
The squad has been ravaged by injuries and suspensions at crucial moments though. Last night, literally 0 fullbacks were available due to suspensions. I think that's unfair to put on Ole. 4 defenders have been useless literally (Valencia, Rojo, Darmian, Young) and none of that is due to Ole again.
Ole just started around experimenting with different systems and then due to injuries had to revert to a common template. Subs and few decisions have been incorrect but then he's still learning with every match (see the one against PSG away). Post his permanent appointment, it's also been swings and roundabouts. Played well against Arsenal and Wolves and we lost. Didn't play well at all against Watford and West Ham and we won.
I really wouldn't hold the current situation against him given that he's literally brought us to the brink of Top 4 compared to where we were when Jose was sacked. Irrespective of the football, it has the fans going and has given few good moments in terrible season. Now need to bring everyone together to pull the great escape and the season can still be salvaged and then we will see how he goes about building the squad.
I get that, and despite being labelled as an Ole bully by many on here, it's worth noting that I didn't criticize him at all for going out against Barca...
I questioned the Dalot / Martial sub, and that's it, nothing else.
What I will judge him for are both the Wolves games, the 2nd Arse game, and the performances in general - which are just boring, tedious football.
I don't understand what people are seeing to justify him getting the role - he should be able, by now, to be showing some kind of direction if he's a special manager with these players.
If he's not a genuinely special manager, then he should be nowhere near the United job. It's that simple.
This is a huge club, and a huge job - and people have to work for years and years at the top end of football before getting a sniff of jobs like this - which OGS has failed to do.
Literally no other PL club wanted him, possibly Championship as well, just think about that...
I will not smile and nod apathetically at the shameful nepotism that this specific club has a real weakness for - especially not when it's sprung on us (and used as emotional manipulation) by the fecking Glazers.
Performances in general have been fine. Few odd ones (Wolves - FA Cup, WHU and Watford at home) and few good ones (Arsenal, Chelsea - FA Cup).
Chances have been given to the "Special Managers" - LvG and Jose. And we have seen how they went. You need to remember that this team is not his. Literally half of the players won't be here after the summer. The first XI will be reshaped again. I mean, he hasn't even had time to mould the squad according to his preference given we have been playing non-stop twice each week. And also due to the injuries and suspensions and contract issues (Herrera), and with 4 games to go, I'd rather a manager concentrates on getting the results after putting us in a good position to qualify for the CL next season.
I don't really see any point driving the pitch forks at this moment. September/October - fine. But 4 months in with a broken squad, no way. Even Pep needed 1 full season after spending truckloads to play the team like he wanted to. And he's still found wanting, most noticeably tonight.
Yes he was right,but he failed also with misfit transfers and negativity.
Too many points to discuss on.
If we look at the general question posed - was Jose right? Yes to a certain extent he was, but he didn't do Anything to resolve it. He acted like a miserable kid who didn't get to buy his toy and refused to play with the ones he had. A good manager adapts to the situations he is dealt with a great one overcomes that and thrives. Jose was none of these!
And how does a manager over come player power? If theres a bunch of egos in a room, and the one calling the shots has no power, how does he control anything? Lets say that everything he said about pogba was true. Hes a virus thats corrupting the dressing room. How does he combat that when woody wont back him up? If pogba goes crying to x, y, z and x, y, z only care about the advertising and shirt money, what exactly could jose do?
Yeah he's right in his claims that most of the squad isn't good enough and there is no proper structure at United.
That’s not the point. We had problems in build up and transition and he tried to sign players to fix it but Woodward did not allow him to. People said we just had to be more attacking and that Jose was making excuses. They were wrong.People are still lamenting not signing Perisic
“We have Martial, be more attacking” does not fix the problems we had. It never was going to.
For starters if pogba was indeed an issue he should have dealt with him directly in the dressing room not in public in a press conference! That was stupid. He was trying to sell a narrative to the fans that the players are the problem. And what happened after pogba was benched? We didn't do anything different either.
Look you can be a Jose fan all you want but the fact of the matter is Jose could have done much more to get us playing better! That's what mattered but he decided that his ego needs to win and that's what eventually resulted in his sacking!
I said it at the time. If this group of players wouldn’t play for Jose they’ll likely down tools at the first sign of trouble under pretty much any other manager. His man management was horrible but what some people don’t seem to realise is how much cajoling and straight talk must have gone on behind the scenes before he felt he had to go public complaining about certain players attitudes. A last roll of the dice. A good attitude is the least the players can display given the money they are on and the relative lack of success they have delivered the club. Saying that Jose had to go he’d lost the fans and the dressing and the board. He also clearly wanted to go.
Let’s give ole some time to build his team but I have a feeling the nucleus is way too soft and the recruitment so bad going back for so long that he’s going to have a horribly difficult job making a good and strong team out of any more than a few of the players currently in and around the first 11. So many could leave and it wouldn’t make a difference. We need players to put in a 7/10 shift every week at least. Not disappear like pogba and martial. These are our leading players guys!
Let’s give ole some time to build his team but I have a feeling the nucleus is way too soft and the recruitment so bad going back for so long that he’s going to have a horribly difficult job making a good and strong team out of any more than a few of the players currently in and around the first 11. So many could leave and it wouldn’t make a difference. We need players to put in a 7/10 shift every week at least. Not disappear like pogba and martial. These are our leading players guys!
Mou right if his job is punditry, but since he's the manager it's like tell everyone in public that he don't wanna build a team, all he want is few season affair with instant mercenary, then gone for another challenge when the team need rebuild again, since his expertise is nullify opponent, only. It's about the enemy, not the team.
That's what you got when you appoint the Special One.
Even the phenomenal CR7, Vida the Destroyer and Evra the flying full back, or the best GK Big Dave, need special treatment, training and gym menu tofit in the system and the league. On their few first game we think CR is selfish, evra just another failure, vida to slow, de Gea too skinny for Premier League, Ji Sung bought for asian market etc.
And a top class manager gotta put some faith in them while trying the best to still get the result to ease the outsider criticism. Tryin their best to protect the players after a bad game while his inner-child keep telling him to punch that player in the face for risking him the job.
That's what you got when you appoint the Special One.
Even the phenomenal CR7, Vida the Destroyer and Evra the flying full back, or the best GK Big Dave, need special treatment, training and gym menu tofit in the system and the league. On their few first game we think CR is selfish, evra just another failure, vida to slow, de Gea too skinny for Premier League, Ji Sung bought for asian market etc.
And a top class manager gotta put some faith in them while trying the best to still get the result to ease the outsider criticism. Tryin their best to protect the players after a bad game while his inner-child keep telling him to punch that player in the face for risking him the job.
Maybe instead of being super defensive, you could answer the question at hand. What was he supposed to do? You assume he didn’t try with Pogba behind closed doors, then you make the unverified claim that it was a lie, a narrative for the fans. An act that would serve no purpose what so ever.
And leave me out of it. Whether I’m a fan or not has nothing to do with the truth of matter. Could he have done better? Of course, the question is why didn’t he. Why didn’t lvg? Why didn’t moyes? Why has the great run of games suddenly come to an end under ole?
If Pogba is the virus that Jose said he was, and he has all the power thanks to woody, there is nothing Jose can do, as we saw. There’s nothing anyone can do. A prick of player with upper management support can be the biggest prick in the world and no manager will be able to do anything about it.
He was wrong. He wanted instant success and didn't care about the long term damage or the style of play. And it didn't even work.
The correct approach would have been to build a long term strategy based on the club's best traditions. That is still the best approach.
The correct approach would have been to build a long term strategy based on the club's best traditions. That is still the best approach.
He correctly identified many of our issues, yet he lacked solutions that were palatable to the marketing and finance types that run the club.
I hope Ole can solve these issues, but I'm not sure he will be allowed to do it by the suits.
I hope Ole can solve these issues, but I'm not sure he will be allowed to do it by the suits.
Only about Pogba.
Imagine front three of Perisic-Willian-LukakuPerisic and Willian
. In 3 years we'll be comfortably ahead of Everton in the leagueI'm sure some people will say Benteke and Drinkwater will improve us if Mourinho had wanted to sign them
What is club traditions?
Long balls to wings and cross in the box
For the majority of the season we had Martial/Rashford on the left and Mata on the right. We got 81 points. Now considering our weaknesses in transition and in wide positions, yes we would have progressed.Imagine front three of Perisic-Willian-Lukaku
I'm sure some people will say Benteke and Drinkwater will improve us if Mourinho had wanted to sign them
The point is not in Willian and Perisic anyway. How many people on here kept harping on about just playing Martial and Pogba further forward and being more attacking as if that was going to solve our problems? Yet when Jose identifies the real problems Woodward vetoes him. It goes beyond that, the defence is clearly an issue as well in terms of build up and transitions.
People can mock Willian as much as they want. Every manager picks him, he has won PL titles, he was still playing well in Jose's last year at Chelsea, Barca bid 60 million for him. For some reason, when it comes to players people like, another manager will get more out of them. When it comes to a player like Willian, apparently he's just shite and a manager can not get more out of him. Especially one that has done it with him before.
Super defensive of whom? I was just stating my opinion, no one has the facts here. Unless Pogba has personally told you that he spoke to Ed or Ed has briefed you about what Jose wanted to do it is all hearsay including the press.
I am saying it is a combination of players and managers and the board. Everyone is to be blamed here, but some people want to absolve Jose of all and i believe you are on that boat saying its always been the players and not the manager.
LVG was given a 2 years to bring in players and he did bring in a lot. Based on your claim it is not LVG's fault that he chose to buy Morgan, Tiger, Darmian, Rojo, Memphis!!
Moyes basically inherited a PL winning team and he managed to mess that up. Moyes was beyond his depth of managing united, If you are saying Moyes would have done better if he had the full backing of Ed then please lets end this discussion right here!
Yeah, not defensive at all. thats why you turned a hypothetical question based on your opinion into Im a jose fan boy.
He's right that the squad is terrible; but the implication that he's somehow absolved from that, like he was just some random bystander, rather than a major contributing factor, is self-serving nonsense.
The squad was progressing from where he picked it up from. Then after finishing 2nd he was not backed. If the squad was terrible and we finished 2nd where is the problem backing him? Regardless, if Woodward did not back Jose he should have sacked him before the season began.
I don't see how backing him would have helped, when you see who his desired targets were, but I agree that he should have been sacked if the board didn't have the faith in him at that point.
He was backed before that though and the squad he left us with, after spending an absurd amount, is abysmal for a club of this size. Van Gaal played a part in that, but Mourinho can't escape blame for it.
The point is he wants to replace player with better potential with aging average inconsistent winger. That's short-sighted planning at its best and if he's still here we'll see another situation where young potential players leave the club like KDB and Salah at Chelsea.
You can hype Willian all you want, the fact is he's consistently bad for Brazil, only had one above average half season under Mou when Chelsea had their worst campaign in a long time, chatting shit about Conte after he left, and a lot of Chelsea fans wants him out. So yeah, I'm gonna laugh at everyone thinking he's gonna improve us.
Imagine if he got what he wanted, the 3 players behind the striker would be Perisic-Sanchez-Willian. Thank God he was fired.
An dit goes in full circle with you missed the point being made. Perirsic was not linked this past summer. It was just one of them. Alexis was pretty much business done. This past summer it's about the defense to enable us to be able to come out from the back.
We will be waiting for Martial's entire career for him to fulfil his potential. Chelsea fans wanting him out doesn't erase the fact that every manager picks him and that Barca bid 50 million for him which Chelsea also rejected. If you think Willian is not an improvement on Mata you are simply just wrong.
I doubt Sanchez would have even be signed if Jose's actual targets were bought.
I'm not hyping Willian either. The wider point is that he identified what was wrong with the team meanwhile fans sat their claiming all he had to do was attack more and play certain players higher up the pitch.
Yeah let's ignore all the shit tactics, after 2.5 years team barely played as a team, fitness was among the poorest in the league. We are in this mess because of Jose and Woodward.
Go and read how Conte, Poch worked on fitness from the first session, then we have Jose whose team was so passive that fitness levels are embarrassment for a PL team.
There are holes in sqaud thanks to Jose. Not sure why Willian us brought there were any reliable journalists who linked him with us, even if they did then Chelsea not selling him to Barca was obvious sign that he isn't for Sale.
Perisic would have added more problems than solve them, for one he is average player whose best position is also left wing. We didn't have a RW for 5 years and barely RW was signed.
Ofcourse playing certain players solved many issues, check how many points we gained by doing so. Thanks to Jose's fecked up recruitment we had to drop that Certain player again to deeper position to help in controlling the game.
Thank God he was gone before making this squad even more shittier and then cry about it season later.
Again, no Perisic wouldn't have helped the team to transition better. He would have helped the opponent team by losing the ball or never taking on the FBs. Good chance he would have ended up like FB like young and Valencia.
There is no doubt Martial is better than Perisic and yes we can wait to see him fulfil his potential rather than wait for Perisic to retire after stinking up the place.
All the shit tactics that led a team which everyone on here calls shit to 2nd place. If we played the way people wanted we would have been worse off.