Saying that your squad has a mentality problem as a coach, is a lose to the coach. I mean its a problem on the pitch, only one person responsible for that.
Jose Mourinho - Was He Right?
- Thread starter sugar_kane
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When Moyes failed, it was because he wasn't a top level manager
When LvG failed, it was because he was too old to adapt to the PL
When Jose failed, it was because he was past it and didn't understand the 'United way'
When Olè fails, it will be because he is "too inexperienced"
How many more managers have to tell us our players have an attitude problem and the structure is all wrong for some people to wake up?
When LvG failed, it was because he was too old to adapt to the PL
When Jose failed, it was because he was past it and didn't understand the 'United way'
When Olè fails, it will be because he is "too inexperienced"
How many more managers have to tell us our players have an attitude problem and the structure is all wrong for some people to wake up?
Isn't this a clear sign of unreasonable bias on your part? You don't care about anything and just wanted someone out, disregarding all the good that he has done and not caring if we have suffered from it. It's like you'd like to have your way and lose rather than choose what is best for your team.
Sure. Ranieri's at fault, Sarri is at fault, LVG is at fault. The manager is responsible for everything.
Ole has done brilliantly with a group of disenchanted, uninterested players sick of Mourinhos dire football, Ole made them smile and let them play, but far too many of our squad are simply not good enough and the smiles cant cover over the cracks. We need a massive overhaul, Young, Jones, Smalling, Valencia, DeGea were all playing 8 years ago. Smalling and Jones were considered to have great potential but neither have really fulfilled it except on very rare occasions. Young and Valencia are well past their sell by date and even DeGea is showing worrying signs his phenomenal standard has fallen. Matic is shot, Fred might yet come good but Pogba lacks consistency and too often plays to the gallery at the cost of losing the ball, hes self indulgent and a luxury we cant afford. Lingard and Lukaku are not good enough and Martial, like Pogba, too inconsistent. Jones, Smalling, Young, Valencia, Matic, Pogba & Lukaku should all go in the summer, the rest given one more season to show they have what it takes to play for Manchester United. We need to bring in young players, not players who might come good in 4/5 years time, but young players who are already fulfilling their potentials elsewhere. Manchester United cannot afford to fall further behind City and Liverpool, top 4 finishes are the very least we should aspire to. I cant afford to wait another 26 years before we're League Champions again as was the case after winning the old First Division in 1967, lol!
Moyes was woefully out of his depth.
LVG tried to implement an outdated and ineffective system to the PL which resulted in his failure.
Jose had shown signs of cracking at both Real and Chelsea before he arrived at United. We took a punt on him anyway because he was the worlds most successful manager at the time and the club was absolutely desperate for a taste of that success.
Between them, they spent in excess of £750 million of the clubs money between them. They were given every opportunity to succeed but ultimately failed due to their ineptness.
Do you disagree?
Mourinho was bang on with his criticisms but he went about it in a toxic way. He antagonized everyone and did it publicly. Maybe he was just fed up that he was not backed in the transfer window and Ed Woodward practically sabotaged Mourinho throughout the preseason and early season. But that's not an excuse, really.
We are suffering the same problems Tottenham had years ago. At some point in time, the board has got to grow a spine and back the manager against the players. Levy backed Pochettino and look at the team now. I just hope that with Ole's positive image, the board will be more willing to back him against the players. Get rid of the wrong mentality and sub par players and bring in good replacements.
We are suffering the same problems Tottenham had years ago. At some point in time, the board has got to grow a spine and back the manager against the players. Levy backed Pochettino and look at the team now. I just hope that with Ole's positive image, the board will be more willing to back him against the players. Get rid of the wrong mentality and sub par players and bring in good replacements.
I think the only way some will see these players aren't good enough would be if we brought SAF back.
Yeah well done , you were right Jose. But a lot of the issues were down to him!
Yes I do. Don't you see your mistake? You're retrospectively assessing the reign of each of our managers and fitting a narrative to explain poor results.
My point is that you could have substituted Pep, Zidane or Klopp for those managers, they would have ultimately 'failed' and we'd have then had posters retrospectively find reasons they were a flawed appointment in the first place
I will continue to argue until I am blue in the face that our managers job is a poisoned chalice. Limited ambition from the owners, lack of structure, meddling and a dressing room that is far too powerful
In a way he was right, club structure is outdated, owners are more interested in making money rather than winning trophies and a CE who is out of his depth in terms of football. That doesnt absolve him of the results and the idea that he wasnt backed financially is laughable.
Like any manager he was right and wrong
Off the top of my head and i am sure i missed many.
He was right about
Off the top of my head and i am sure i missed many.
He was right about
- Lack of structure at the club and failure in recruitment.
- United being a commercial club rather than a football one
- Incompetence of the board/Woodward in football side of things
- Attitude problems in some players, thinking they are better than they actually are.
- Scott mctominay being a good player.
- The Center back problem
- Not receiving backing after our best seasons after Saf, board only bothering to be a top 4 club and not pushing for winning PL/CL
- Public criticism of the players all the time
- Negative tactics all the time
- Tiring tirades to the press.
- Falling out with everyone and never accepting the club for its ethos.
- Sabotaging tactics and games just to prove points to the board about recruitment
- Sevilla press conference
- Playing like Fat sam , while having players of vastly higher quality.
Why can't we need a DOF/planning but those managers were still wrong and out of their depths?
It's laughable to blame their failure on lack of structure solely. They failed because they were the wrong. It's not like Moyes, LVG and Mourinho have been winning since they were sacked is it?
Well tbf to LvG and Jose they haven't been losing games either since neither has managed another club!
I accept Moyes wasn't right. He didn't look or sound like a United manager and he actually looked beaten towards the end. LvG and Jose however are proven winners. I don't buy this 'outdated' nonsense....we're talking about a manager who reached a WC semi-final 3-mnths before joining Utd and a chap who had won the PL 2yrs prior to joining us!
We need the structure first, then we can assess whether our managers are doing a good/bad job
Yes.
Our board is completely out of their depth. Even if you want to blame the managers, someone higher up needs to take responsibility for not spotting the problems with all these managers.
Do you disagree?
If you hired 4 managers out of their depth, maybe it's you who is out of your depth?
He was right, but his problem was millennials.
He peaked with the tail end of generation-x, and he has been unable to maintain any sort of relationship with the post gen-x mentality. I'm not trying to shit on anyone here, just making an observation, feel free to disagree, but I don't think it's a coincidence.
He peaked with the tail end of generation-x, and he has been unable to maintain any sort of relationship with the post gen-x mentality. I'm not trying to shit on anyone here, just making an observation, feel free to disagree, but I don't think it's a coincidence.
I've said previously, at some point in time, we're gonna need the board to back the manager agains't the players. If Jose was understandably too unpalatable to back, i hope Ole is positive enough for the board to back him against the players and ship out those who simply aren't interested or good enough.
I couldn't agree more.
Excellent point.
Ole hasn't been winning recently either has he.
Now. I wonder what is the common denominator.
Oh yes. Our players.
Getting battered by the likes of Everton today.
I thought the contract was announced too early. They should have kept it a secret till season end. Players lack all motivation right now. Totally off the pace. No aggression. No pace. No spine. Sound familiar? Smacks of the last few years. I sincerely hope Ole's hairdryer is strong enough.
The players had their fun and made Mourinho look like a cnut in the first few games.
Now their true colours are showing again.
Now their true colours are showing again.
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No.
Course he wasn’t.
He saw the issues in our team. His response to those issues were... Matic, Dalot, Fred, Lukaku, Lindelof etc etc.
The more players we play who signed for Mourinho the worst we look.
He saw the issues in our team. His response to those issues were... Matic, Dalot, Fred, Lukaku, Lindelof etc etc.
The more players we play who signed for Mourinho the worst we look.
Jose was right about everything. I wanted him out after the Sevilla game but he was right about the club, the players. This club is doomed as the biggest problem the structure hasn't changed and we likely have gotten an even less able manager. I can safely say we are not challenging for title in the next 5 seasons and will not get top 4 in half of those seasons.
A1.
Jose lost his job the minute it seemed like we would lose Martial and Pogba because of it. Woodward’s motivation is the bottom line and nothing else. No way will Woodward want to back Ole in getting rid of his marketing wet dreams.
Of course he was right
Its almost as if the only manager to ever win La Liga, Serie A and the Premier League actually knows something about elite footballers.....
Its almost as if the only manager to ever win La Liga, Serie A and the Premier League actually knows something about elite footballers.....
Of course he was. You only hire Mourinho if you intend to win the biggest trophies. Woodward and his superiors are not interested in anything else than profit.
Looks that way.
Right. Gut this team and backroom staff from top to bottom.
Establish a style of play and headhunt promising young talented coaches, scouts and a director of football who can put to all together. Forget SAF and all he stood for. Our biggest problem is trying to recreate ''The United Way' in the modern game.
We need to invent our own style and stick with it.
But before all this can take place, remove Ed Woodward from all footballing related decisions. Until then this is what we are going to get and nothing more. So best to accept this mediocre United Ed has managed to feck up over the last 6 years and continues to do so.
Establish a style of play and headhunt promising young talented coaches, scouts and a director of football who can put to all together. Forget SAF and all he stood for. Our biggest problem is trying to recreate ''The United Way' in the modern game.
We need to invent our own style and stick with it.
But before all this can take place, remove Ed Woodward from all footballing related decisions. Until then this is what we are going to get and nothing more. So best to accept this mediocre United Ed has managed to feck up over the last 6 years and continues to do so.
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A few weeks back you were praising the squad.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/could-we-have-challenged-for-the-title-this-year.444513/
We need to get rid of the cancers within. I hope Ole identifies them and clears them out.
The moment they chose politics over football, well, I guess the rest is history.
If you listened to some of these people here, you would've thought Jose was an FM graduate, not a multiple league winning manager. People forget he won the league just 2 seasons prior.
I’m now convinced Mourinho was right to do what he did and now Ole has to go after them in the press conference too.
To be fair, Jose wasn’t wrong on attitudes...
Couldn’t have said it better.
Funny that people are talking about Moaninho being right when LVG already said what he said before him. Two of the great modern managers says that you club is run like shite, but apparently they are just bitter and jealous about being sacked 
He was right but Completely gave up when he didn't get more money, So for me he's on the same level of coward as these players. He gave up when things went against him and these players give up when things go against them.
Yep. Mourinho saw what this club was all about with Ed at the helm and he acted the way he did to get the sack with a good compensation.
Most fans are truly missing it. Jose has always been a good manager if he had the proper support and backing from above. Otherwise, you get the Jose that we got. He will work and work for the club to win if he is backed.
Fans complain that he was a d*ck about everything and that his ego is bigger than the club. I would argue that this club needs exactly that in this trying time. It takes too long to rebuild with 2-3 transfer windows. Club and fans will never have patience for that. Look at the fans calling for OGS’s Head now. Ed will not overhaul the whole team. It will be a couple of players in the summer.
Jose wants to win now, Ed didn’t let him, fans didn’t want him to sign ready made players because they are “old”....that is exactly what we need to build up this fast downward sliding club of ours one season at a time.
this
Some fans want to see Poch and of Zidane added to that list of failures.
Forget Moaninho for a bit. LVG said that he pinned Ed Woodward as a clown very early (I believe his wife told him a few words on Woodward and he agreed). A money obsessed, football illiterate man.