We need Pogba more than anything to be at his best and I've been saying time and time again that playing him in a 2 with Matic is pointless and it doesn't matter if we're playing Wycombe. Mourinho knows this but thinks he can make it work somehow.
Jose Tactics and Pogba
- Thread starter Icemav
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Owen & Hargreaves are spot on. I must be one of the few who actually likes Hargreaves as a commentator.
Going by what they both say, we already have the answer in the team, a midfield 3 of Matic, Herrera/Carrick/McTominay, and Pogba. Pogba can bomb on and Herrera particuarly can do the leg work and get the ball back. Herrera really should be getting more game time.
Going by what they both say, we already have the answer in the team, a midfield 3 of Matic, Herrera/Carrick/McTominay, and Pogba. Pogba can bomb on and Herrera particuarly can do the leg work and get the ball back. Herrera really should be getting more game time.
Owen made some really good points there. He is becoming better as a pundit tbh
I think he is a really good pundit. To me a good pundit isn't someone who is correct all the time but genuinely gives their opinion and take on something giving me something else to think about other than the usual.
This is why I think Neville isn't the best pundit. He's alright but just conforms to the trite explanations too often.
Its Jose's philosophy that makes him unsuccessful with attacking player. Its called "safety first".
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Yes. It really is quite the mindfeck to see people using our supposed bad performance in a 4-3-3 to argue for us using a 4-3-3.
I agree with this. What's important for me is the role Pogba is given. Liverpool play 4-3-3 but clearly Wijnaldum plays deeper than Lallana/Oxlade-Chamberlain. I think people should be clear about wanting to play Pogba as the third midfielder (the most advanced of the three) and not the second one (the one in the middle of the three) and stop focusing on whether we play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1.
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I have got to the stage with Jose Mourinho much like VG's final season, he does not want to or does not know how to solve the problem, when he is wanting fellaini to stay badly, young is played at LB, lingard is seen has a no10 by Mourinho, no matter how he plays matic is played, its becoming the point of no return where Jose Mourinho is on borrowed time at this rate
But hey, young at LB, jones and smalling in defense, lingard at no10, and lukaku at no9, we defiantly in trouble of losing out on top 4 the way we are going. I think CL will defiantly be a test of the condition of this team, if we get knocked out oh you can bet there is something seriously broken with this team
He's good, he's underrated in punditry and commentating. One of the very few that I like.
Everybody calm your shits. The coaching staff knows the issue. Jose has explicitly said he wants another midfielder. This will be sorted out especially if Fellaini leaves then we are forced to make a midfield signing from purely the numbers
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"Paul Pogba wants Jose Mourinho to alter Manchester United's formation to allow the France international to play an attacking role on the left side of a midfield three."
I hope this is true through most likely isn't. He needs two other CM's preferably combative.
The fact that Mourinho says he only sees Pogba as a midfielder, to me it says whatever formation we play, he will never be relieved of defensive duties and will never have full freedom in attack.
The thing is we probably have one of the best attacks in the league but we don't play them right. Lukaku at top, martial on the left, cannot be the right as he's ineffective, Sanchez on the right as he can play anywhere with pogba in the amc role connecting midfield with attack. That's what he does best. Everyone bangs on about Jesse movement blah blah, the guy is useless and should only start in order to rest others. Pogba is the link we need to surge frim midfield to attack but not to the extent we rely on him to defend. Matic and mctominay are perfect for that. Matic has great technical ability and good vision for a pass. Breaks up play and keeps things moving. The more I see of mctominay the more I'm convinced he is the solution for now. He plays it simple,does the work no else wants to do, has an engine and is reliable. He will sit back and protect defence when matic goes on a surging run. Why does Jose try to be too smart.
We can play a midfield with the triangle pointing backwards but who does Pogba pick up when we play against a midfield containing a Diame and a Shelvey? If it's Diame then Pogba has to track him back into our box (a b2b role) and if it's Shelvey then Pogba has to make sure he can stop him making passes. Both of these roles have defensive responsibilities so which one do you want him to have? The same question can be asked when we go up against a Cleverley and Doucoure, a Xhaka and Ramsey or a Fabregas and Bakayoko.
Isn't Mourinho just right when he says that he's a midfielder? A lot of times there will be no way out of him 'doing a job.'
Isn't Mourinho just right when he says that he's a midfielder? A lot of times there will be no way out of him 'doing a job.'
It's clear to nearly everybody that to get the best out of Pogba you need to play him as the most advanced midfield player on the left of a midfield 3, Mourinho must see this as it's glaringly obvious but it seems as if he is just being stubborn, and part that 3 can not contain Lingard or Mata it needs to be a combative box to box player e.g. Herrera but Jose doesn't fancy him and he is out of form because of lack of games.
---------------------De gea--------------------
-Valencia------Bailey------Jones-------shaw-
----------------------Matic--------------------
-----------Herrera---------------Pogba--------
-----Sanchez-------------------------Martial--
---------------------Lukaku--------------------
We need to sign 2 good midfield players in the summer as I can see Herrera being sold and I want Fellaini gone, I would also love to see Fosu-Mensah tried in midfield as I think that could be his best position either box to box or CDM when Matic needs a rest.
---------------------De gea--------------------
-Valencia------Bailey------Jones-------shaw-
----------------------Matic--------------------
-----------Herrera---------------Pogba--------
-----Sanchez-------------------------Martial--
---------------------Lukaku--------------------
We need to sign 2 good midfield players in the summer as I can see Herrera being sold and I want Fellaini gone, I would also love to see Fosu-Mensah tried in midfield as I think that could be his best position either box to box or CDM when Matic needs a rest.
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If Jose still does not trust Linderlof at CB, why not try him out to partner Matic in the double pivot? Linderlof has experience as defensive midfielder, Jose said that.
I think we may have to face the reality that as long as Mourinho is our manager or things stay the way they are we may never get the best out of Paul Pogba, which is a shame because the lad is bloody talented, in order for things to change 1 of 4 things needs to happen in my opinion
- Mourinho switches from the preferred system and formation he's used throughout his career and plays Pogba in a similar role and situation to where Pogba played his best football at Juventus, build around him, this guy should be the cornerstone of our entire team really, but it's square peg round hole situation
- Pogba becomes more accustomed to playing in a double pivot, but some of his attacking threat is nullified in the process regulating him to more of a CDM type role, ideally though this is something we want to avoid surely
- Mourinho leaves and we get in a coach that is vastly more tactically flexible, particularly attack minded and realises how to get the best out of Pogba, because I really don't think Mourinho knows how
- Pogba is sold by Mourinho and using the funds from the sale and funds we already had he buys midfielders that will more easily mould to his game and not cause as much of an issue in theb system, although i'm sure the majority, if not all the supporters, wouldn't want this to happen
If Castles is right and there is conflict between Pogba and the Manager, then its really goodbye Pogba!
I am not convinced he was ever a Mourinho purchase, more a 'present' from Woodward to a new manager who was not going to say no, but who has realised over 18 months what Fergie knew some years ago.
Mourinho is absolutely correct to state that he expects a midfield player to be able to play in midfield with all the duties a midfielder has, including defending. This silly idea that Pogba is some sort of leftish no10 is absurd. He has none of the attributes of a top no10. He doesn't think fast enough, is not adept in tight spaces, doesn't quickly play one touch passes, doesn't circulate the ball with quick passes, doesn't provide any meaningful threat in the opposition area, doesn't score from free kicks. Compare him to Eriksen or De Bruyne; its a joke!
If Pogba can't play as a proper midfielder then he has to be sold and quickly before his festering infantile behaviour creates real problems.
I am not convinced he was ever a Mourinho purchase, more a 'present' from Woodward to a new manager who was not going to say no, but who has realised over 18 months what Fergie knew some years ago.
Mourinho is absolutely correct to state that he expects a midfield player to be able to play in midfield with all the duties a midfielder has, including defending. This silly idea that Pogba is some sort of leftish no10 is absurd. He has none of the attributes of a top no10. He doesn't think fast enough, is not adept in tight spaces, doesn't quickly play one touch passes, doesn't circulate the ball with quick passes, doesn't provide any meaningful threat in the opposition area, doesn't score from free kicks. Compare him to Eriksen or De Bruyne; its a joke!
If Pogba can't play as a proper midfielder then he has to be sold and quickly before his festering infantile behaviour creates real problems.
As much as I hate player power, you'd rather keep the team under this stifling setup that is crippling Pogba and asking him to be something he's not, for maybe another 2 more years tops of Mourinho and sacrifice a possible world class player, our future? Sorry but I would hope many people wouldn't be happy with that, there are plenty of teams that would snap our hands off at a chance to sign Pogba, he proved his worth at Juventus and we know what he is capable of, teams on the continent will know how to get the best out of him and we'll of missed out big time if we let him leave again.
I think you are right, there are at least two teams who would buy him, Madrid and PSG, maybe even City. Good! That means United could get enough money to buy two decent, mature midfielders who the team needs, not a child playing at being a man.
And the manager always has to be backed in such a situation. If he isn't you end up with never ending chaos.
Yup - clear as day it was a 4-3-3, but it doesn't suit the narrative of "Pogba is being played out of position" so people will ignore it. Time to admit he just had an appallingly poor game - a second one after the Spurs one where he was just out of the game completely.
Sorry. Can't agree here - at all. Which midfield player (midfield, not striker) can you show me who achieved greatness without having positional discipline when without the ball? No player that I can think of has been considered a midfield great without having even the most basic defensive skills. Pogba routinely mucks up even when defending set-pieces. Lukaku has got grief for this, but Pogba has been equally regularly terrible even in this most basic task. Even fecking Ronaldo doesn't make a fuss about defending from corners and doesn't feck it up. Pogba does not score enough and has not shown that he can score enough. Even in his "preferred" formation, playing for a team absolutely dominating the league and hammering one poor opponent after another (I'm talking about Juve), Pogba didn't score anywhere near enough goals to think he's going to be the second coming when it comes to goals scored or assisted. In that light, you can't completely absolve him of defensive duties. At Juve, it was also different in that their opponents almost never had the firepower to threaten. The PL isn't like that and if he thinks he can just play in attack and forget about the defensive duties, he's not mature enough for a team aspiring the level we are aspiring for.
Scholes had defensive duties too. Read on him and you realize that a lot of the "Scholes tackles" were actually very deliberate. He cultivated that image (good on him) of ineptitude in tackling so he got away with it, but a lot of those were very intentional. He did muck in when we defended. Same holds for any other class midfielder. Those that don't (look at Ozil) are blasted despite having far better attacking output than Pogba.
Feel that the anti-Mourinho sentiment in a lot of folks actually gives Pogba a far easier ride than he'd be getting for this mentality if say, Ancelotti or someone similar was in charge who did not carry the baggage that Mourinho does.
Spot on. Nailed it completely. Am just surprised more people don't see this.
Pogba lacks discipline and basics is the biggest myth. He isn't suited to play midfield 2 doesn't mean he lacks discipline.
Which midfield great was played in midfield with lot of defensive duty and asked to track runners? Most midfield greats played in attacking teams, not pragmatic teams.
Also this is repeating same thing again and again but with different poster.
Present from Woodward? What is he, some Valentine to Jose?
Jose tried to sign Pogba when he was Chelsea manger and then said it's impossible to sign him.
I think both Owen and Hargreaves are absolutely right with what they say and it's pretty much how I have been feeling the entire time about this situation as well, which is why I want us so desperately to buy a Vidal/Dembele/Kanté type player who is tireless, quick, closes gaps well and can play a fair bit of good football on top of that to partner Matic and give Pogba all freedom going forward in midfield. He has been always at his best when this was the case and at Juve a very similar setup worked quite well.
Next to a defense that can actually is comfortable on the ball the third midfielder imo is the one thing Mou really need to figure out next summer to push the team to the next level.
Next to a defense that can actually is comfortable on the ball the third midfielder imo is the one thing Mou really need to figure out next summer to push the team to the next level.
Pogba needs to only focus on his fecking football and do what ever the manager say ffs. It looked like sometimes he dosen't want to involve in any ball.
You actually believe that Pool didn't win titles cause of Gerrard?
The revisionism in here is incredible, no one thought he was an attacking midfielder until a few week ago and everyone was content Matic would free him up. Suddenly him playing in a midfield two is like asking him to play in net.
In fact its always fun to have a quick look through the OPs posts in threads, surprise surprise completely contradictory.
In fact its always fun to have a quick look through the OPs posts in threads, surprise surprise completely contradictory.
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Matic is currently dead on his feet with tiredness due to too much football and Pogba is carrying injury, yet we cant quite rotate with Carrick fresh from a long lay off and Mc Tominay totally inexperienced, plus Herrera and Fellaini crocked. That is why our first choice midfield is currently struggling. Anyone who imagines all Pogba can do is attack or that he is shackled by defensive duties clearly never followed his career at Juventus.
At Juve his role was to do all the defending, ball winning and running for first Pirlo, when he broke through, then later for both Vidal and Pirlo in a midfield diamond. Always in a box to box role in a three or on the left flank of a diamond. His problems at United stem from the fact he has never ever operated at any point in double pivot at senior club level before returning to OT. So he hasn't yet learned how to work in constant synergy with his midfield partner. That is why at times he gets dragged upfield to hunt for the ball. He is still learning to master moving with his partner to hunt the ball. Learning when to have the patience and let the ball come to them as they hold their position, plus when to sit and let his partner drift forward aa he covers for them, and when to drift forward as his partner covers for him without causing unnecessary danger to the back four and defensive set up of the team. He is also mastering to fall back immediately to the partnership when the ball is lost as we attack, rather than trying to inmediately win it back further upfield. Like it took Kroos about 2 seasons to master operating deeper, it will probably take the same time for Pogba. Fans just need patience
At Juve his role was to do all the defending, ball winning and running for first Pirlo, when he broke through, then later for both Vidal and Pirlo in a midfield diamond. Always in a box to box role in a three or on the left flank of a diamond. His problems at United stem from the fact he has never ever operated at any point in double pivot at senior club level before returning to OT. So he hasn't yet learned how to work in constant synergy with his midfield partner. That is why at times he gets dragged upfield to hunt for the ball. He is still learning to master moving with his partner to hunt the ball. Learning when to have the patience and let the ball come to them as they hold their position, plus when to sit and let his partner drift forward aa he covers for them, and when to drift forward as his partner covers for him without causing unnecessary danger to the back four and defensive set up of the team. He is also mastering to fall back immediately to the partnership when the ball is lost as we attack, rather than trying to inmediately win it back further upfield. Like it took Kroos about 2 seasons to master operating deeper, it will probably take the same time for Pogba. Fans just need patience
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Well, that's it I guess, L'equipe saying Pogba is unhappy and sees a move to Real as the only solution:
https://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Article/Manchester-united-paul-pogba-en-plein-spleen/875890
been a fun two years...
(spoiler alert: it's in French)
(no idea what it says apart from the title)
https://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Article/Manchester-united-paul-pogba-en-plein-spleen/875890
been a fun two years...
(spoiler alert: it's in French)
(no idea what it says apart from the title)
While I might not be his biggest fan at this time considering his lack of commitment in the last game (was he injured?), the caf have been calling for pogba to play in a 3 even before he I joined.
This.
He can try a combination of any 3 of Sanchez, Martial, Lukaku & Lingard actually.
Is not about who we play, is about how our team is setup. We don't press at all.
And you know that how? If you are going to reply, reply with facts, not your opinion.
To say that playing Pogba in a midfield three isn't justified is just laughable. Pogba in a midfield three would imo be better than KDB or Eriksen. He has a wider range of skillset and is a much more rounded player. Again, just my opinion.
Right now, his flaws are getting exposed because he isn't suited for a midfield two. If we put Eriksen and KDB in the same system Pogba is right now and they do better, than your argument that they are better holds. But, that's not the case.
Think it's really outdated to still rely on having individual players pressing like headless chickens instead of a coordinated collective effort. Meanwhile so called attacking managers have implemented pressing as a defensive tactic to great results.
The manager uses words like 'fight' and 'desire' when he really should be the one implementing systemic pressing from the training ground
Not trying to be a dick, but that's funny
That being said, I don't think Pogba is an attacking midfielder. Playing him there is a waste of his physicality. The man's a beast, putting him, KDB and Eriksen next to eachother should tell you they're not suited for the same position.
That's absolute crap, the narrative on here has been he's useless in a midfield two and a waste basically since we signed him.
Is funny how?Not trying to be a dick, but that's funny
That being said, I don't think Pogba is an attacking midfielder. Playing him there is a waste of his physicality. The man's a beast, putting him, KDB and Eriksen next to eachother should tell you they're not suited for the same position.
I wasn't adamant that Pogba is better than x,y, or z. I just gave my opinion and never did i try to shove it down someone's throat or push it aggressively.
Why is it that when someone is physical, he's not suited for an attacking midfielder's role? Is like saying, if player x is physical, he most likely lack the finesse. Same nonsense Lukaku has received since people tend to compare him with Drogba.
And we don’t even do that. Mourinho has implemented a deep block since taking over. We constantly bottom the most sprints and distance travelled charts. It’s a tactic that quite clearly isn’t working as effectively as he wishes.