Well, he had Vidal and Marchisio around to do the running. And Pirlo as a focal point.
Jose Tactics and Pogba
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
I'm getting so tired of debating Pogba and his best position.
Quite simply, it is not plausible or rational to change a whole TEAMS formation to suit ONE player. It's simply not on.
I can see positives for 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 in truth, whatever we go for should suit every player in the team and we need to stop dallying around Pogba.
Majority on here seem to think Pogba is world class and is the ultimate footballer. Time to turn the Pogba glasses off I'm afraid. He was young when he was here, he pouted caused up a stink and fergie got rid. He come good at Juventus, some long range goals and become a 1st team player.
He's coming to the end of his 2nd season here and I am genuinely struggling to see how Pogba has made us better or improved us as a team or improved his own game. I don't know if he has declined at all as I didn't analyse his performances at Juve, just based on the odd clip here and there but he certainly has to be classed as poor value at this point based on his OVERALL performances over his time here. Harsh? Maybe. But lets get realistic, he is supposedly world class yet cant play in a midfield 2? His positional awareness is questionable, his passing varies from good to poor, and his defensive work is not where it needs to be. Based on his ability, he should be doing better for me.
At this point, we still don't know his best position and he is confidence shot and out of favour with the manager.
Most worryingly, he doesn't looked bothered. If he tried to put some effort in, give his all we'd be happier with that. The fact he is a midfielder and cant understand the midfield role that Jose is giving him is baffling. Why cant a player of world class pedigree adapt and play the role asked of him?
Now, Mourinho's tactics may come into it, the old "Jose isn't using him right" etc etc. I don't buy it entirely, Pogba is a midfielder. 3 or 2 = he should be able to fit either role as asked by the manager. But he doesn't.
At least Mctonimey plays with passion and desire and wants to make an impression on a game. Pogba's attitude is shocking
Quite simply, it is not plausible or rational to change a whole TEAMS formation to suit ONE player. It's simply not on.
I can see positives for 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 in truth, whatever we go for should suit every player in the team and we need to stop dallying around Pogba.
Majority on here seem to think Pogba is world class and is the ultimate footballer. Time to turn the Pogba glasses off I'm afraid. He was young when he was here, he pouted caused up a stink and fergie got rid. He come good at Juventus, some long range goals and become a 1st team player.
He's coming to the end of his 2nd season here and I am genuinely struggling to see how Pogba has made us better or improved us as a team or improved his own game. I don't know if he has declined at all as I didn't analyse his performances at Juve, just based on the odd clip here and there but he certainly has to be classed as poor value at this point based on his OVERALL performances over his time here. Harsh? Maybe. But lets get realistic, he is supposedly world class yet cant play in a midfield 2? His positional awareness is questionable, his passing varies from good to poor, and his defensive work is not where it needs to be. Based on his ability, he should be doing better for me.
At this point, we still don't know his best position and he is confidence shot and out of favour with the manager.
Most worryingly, he doesn't looked bothered. If he tried to put some effort in, give his all we'd be happier with that. The fact he is a midfielder and cant understand the midfield role that Jose is giving him is baffling. Why cant a player of world class pedigree adapt and play the role asked of him?
Now, Mourinho's tactics may come into it, the old "Jose isn't using him right" etc etc. I don't buy it entirely, Pogba is a midfielder. 3 or 2 = he should be able to fit either role as asked by the manager. But he doesn't.
At least Mctonimey plays with passion and desire and wants to make an impression on a game. Pogba's attitude is shocking
If you look at the start of the season we couldn't string a decent performance together whenever he was out of the side.
Maybe because he isn't world class? Listen, We all know Pogba has the potential to be one of the best players in the world..but at the moment that's all it is, potential! he has shown nothing in his 2 years here to suggest he is a world class footballer.
Yes he is capable of doing some amazing things other players could only dream of, but that is not what makes you world class. World class players play to a very high standard, week in, week out. Most importantly, they have an impact on games. Be it goals, assists, or just general hard work and discipline (team play). Pogba has not really shown any of that on a consistent basis. A few flashy passes here and there just won't cut it. Think people need to re-evaluate where he is in his career. Good post btw.
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So playing in midfield 3 gave him licence to bomb forward and make huge impact. That should be the blue print on which we should build our team.
He was also shit in a 3 in the first half. Position, nah, it is on Pogba, when switched on and playing with drive and fight he can be exceptional in multiple positions.
Funny. Pogba saying he only made those runs in the second half because it was a three in midfield.
Nah 4222 2nd half. Pogba was left CAM till we started defending again.
What? With 3 in midfield he can make runs all day long, with 2 he can't. He wasn't even shit in first half but I'm arsed to argue on that. It's typical CAF reaction to look for scapegoat when going gets tough.
Obviously the missing tactic was to have Pep talk shit about Pogba in the press. 
Plenty of times in his Utd career he has been bad in a 3 and good in a 2. Mou might stay with that set up now given the second half, Pogba needs to show consistency. If he is going to play in a 3 man midfield with that freedom then he need to be scoring 15 goals a season. Good step today, keep it up.
Seems to me he prefers to play as a number 10ish type of role. One where he is closer to goal and can score/create easily.
I see him moving further up the pitch if we bring in another central midfielder of top class calibre this summer.
I see him moving further up the pitch if we bring in another central midfielder of top class calibre this summer.
Build the team around him. Simple.
very strange the whole Pogba / Pep thing this week and disappointing to see how Pally Pogba was with him at the end of the game.Yiu would have thought he would want to make it clear to everyone that he would never go to city.Obviously the missing tactic was to have Pep talk shit about Pogba in the press.
Also thought the timing of having his hair dyed light blue and white was just bloody ridiculous.
He had a dreadful 1 st half and would imagine Jose said to him you have 10 minutes to sort yourself out or your off .Thank God he pulled himself together or else it would have been very different headlines tonight
Don't get why Herrera rarely plays even when fit. He should be a nailed on starter in midfield when fit IMO.
He was looking really poor in the beginning of the season and deservedly got dropped. He looked excellent today so kudos for him.
I thought we are already doing that. When Pogba got the ball he was trying to take on 3 defenders, while the rest of the team watching. OK we "build" our team around Pogba and Sanchez, the team would pick up any shit left behind by either of them. On the other hand, when they are working for the team, like 2nd half City, we play as a team.
The issue isn't about where Pogba plays anymore. It is about whether Pogba thinks he is Messi and taking on the world, or work for the team such as running into space, pass it quickly instead of dribbling when it makes sense.
The defence played higher which allows the midfield to play higher so there isn't a gazillion miles between them and the forward line
I don't think we are at the minute imo. If that was the case, we would be playing him the position he wants to every game and wouldn't be dropped to the bench. He said it himself in the interview with Henry, he likes the freedom when we play a 3 man midfield. This allows him to dictate play and get further forward without be scared leaving Matic on his own as we have that other man covering.
Yes, sometimes he over plays and is certainly better when he plays it simple but the guy likes tricks and tries something different every once in a while. I would prefer him to be like this as it's the only midfielder we have with flair. He is actually very good at dribbling for a big guy. One thing is for sure, when his confidence is high and on top form he is one hell of a player. We need players like him if we want to challenge for trophies.
OK, City 1st half, left hand side of a 3 men MF, was he dictating play? If people have not been watching his game, Pogba likes to get involved, so he runs towards the ball. Apart from taking on defenders, which I have no problem as long as it is 1 against 1, not 1 against 3, he might eventually pass the ball, if fortunately not being dispossessed. The problem with this approach, is that he keeps the ball a few seconds too long. Then, after he eventually makes the pass, he stays near the ball looking for further involvement - here comes congestion.
If you notice 2 goals of 2nd half, his passing was much quicker (including Sanchez as well). On top of that, he runs into empty space on both goals, instead of hanging around with the ball-holder.
IMO it is non-sense talking about giving him freedom, which position he plays. It should be about HOW he should play proper football. Regardless of 433 or 4231 or even 451, you need quick passing when trying to break down a bus or against teams that don't give you space and time.
Fair point about the first half but the whole team wasn't playing well. Im not saying he can do it all on his own, we need every player to play their part. Although I would argue that Pogba was the only one trying to create something first half? When the team finally started to show abit of passion and effort we saw the true quality of Pogba.
You must agree that the best games we have sen from him is when we have played a 3 man midfield and playing closer to the striker. The Everton game comes to mind as particularly good. I suppose the point im trying to make is that we are a better team with him in the team than out.
A freindly reminder that we played 4-2-3-1 in that 2nd half against City. Moving Pogba into the no.10 position was the key to his influence on the game. In the 1st half all 3 midfielders were alternating between no.6 and no.8. In the 2nd half Matic and Herrera were no.6s and Pogba was the no.10.
Pogba has shown that he can play well in a variety of formations, so long as he is putting in the right levels of work, and keeping things simple. In the first half Pogba was trying to do too much, tricks and feints in our own half, dribbling past 2-3 players etc. In the 2nd half, Pogba was doing the basics very well.
Drop of the shoulder then pass to a player in space, get the ball out wide and make a run into the box, pass the ball in between the lines and move to receive a 1-2. These simple things are the bread and butter of top midfielders and when he does these things he is very difficult to stop.
Pogba has shown that he can play well in a variety of formations, so long as he is putting in the right levels of work, and keeping things simple. In the first half Pogba was trying to do too much, tricks and feints in our own half, dribbling past 2-3 players etc. In the 2nd half, Pogba was doing the basics very well.
Drop of the shoulder then pass to a player in space, get the ball out wide and make a run into the box, pass the ball in between the lines and move to receive a 1-2. These simple things are the bread and butter of top midfielders and when he does these things he is very difficult to stop.
Yeah, he brings lot to the team. He should play regularly. His energy and ability to press is very good. In a 3 man midfield he can contribute to attack also.
Maybe wrong here but he was poor as he had to play different role to last season. He was more defensive player last season and this season he was played because Pogba was injured, so he had responsibility to create and make things happen which he is poor at since his first season.
Now we have everyone fit, hopefully he will get run of games in midfield 3 along with Pogba and Matic.
I think Pogba performance yesterday comes mainly down to his own attitude. Thats been mine and many others issue with the lad since he re signed, his application and overall focus. The Pep comments where meant to unsettle (true or not) and all it served to do was fire him up. I think his performance yesterday just shows its only himself thats been stopping him performing like this consistently. I hope raiola offers him to every manager from now on and they pipe up before the game. Worked wonders.
It didn't serve to fire him up in the first half because he was abysmal . I think it was jose who fired him up at half time ( I was actually surprised when he came out for the second half )
Pogba said something after the game I think is very fitting to the discussion. He said that it's difficult to make the kind of runs he did yesterday when he's playing in a midfield 2 because he often has to stay back, but when he's playing in a midfield 3, he knows Matic will stay back, and has more freedom to make those types of runs.
Say what?
Exactly.
It isn't about giving him license to bomb forward.
When Pogba plays well, the system is set up for him to do that. But if he decides to jog around like the game is a pre-season friendly, then there is no tactic which will make him shine.
In the first half Pogba (like most of our players) didn't turn up.
In the second half, we made no changes to personnel, tactics or formation, but the difference was that everybody (including Pogba), played with more passion, determination and intensity. It really is as simple as that. Nothing complicated.
Same here.
I was expecting 2-3 substitutions at half time, but instead Jose reset our players' heads and sent them out again.
Bullshit, he made those runs at the beginning of the season when were beating teams by 4 goals with only Matic behind him and was scoring goals for fun. What was it, like 4 goals in 7 games? Moreover, he was scoring late in games which means he had superior stamina/work ethic to opponents. That's what's changed post injury with him not having 3 or 2 in midfield.
The team was more attacking during that period, in the bigger games we went with a more defensive style and Pogba struggled with that especially in a 2. Probably his injury was also a factor but it wasn't just that.
the 2nd half is what i expected Pogba to become when we signed him, similar to what Jose done with Lampard, get in the box every chance he could and do alot less defensive work, cant beleive its took this long to work it out, Matic and Herrera are alot better in the defence area so should be fine to release pogba. think his problem is he seems to try a bit to much, rather then realeasing the ball quicker. More of the same now,
If you remember, he only did those runs in the end of games when teams looked beaten. We were not winning 4-0 by going 2/3 up in the first 60 minutes. A lot of our goals came in the last 10 minutes.
I
3 goals with Matic and Fellaini behind him
Under 4231 it would be Lingard (assuming being #10) who would do this kind of run, which he did score. But we were playing 433 with Pogba slightly up front, so why didn't he make the run in 1st half? Someone claimed we switched to 4231 in 2nd half, but what is the difference between a #10 (under 4231) , and AMF at the tip of a triangle (under 433)? 10 yards further back but he can't run into the box?
IMO the difference was, during 1st half he was ALWAYS running after the ball, always being 10y from the ball, like a school kid shouting "give me the ball".
In 2nd half, he was running into space when team mates have the ball.
It's an absolute mystery to me why Pogba hasn't made late runs into box consistently in his two seasons here because the threat level is huge - and would bring a new dimension to our game, in every match.
We know there's a myriad of reasons (you don't need to point them out to me: too deep, Jose's tactics etc..) - but next season, we need to allow that kind of threat to develop from midfield because it's been sorely missing for a while.
We know there's a myriad of reasons (you don't need to point them out to me: too deep, Jose's tactics etc..) - but next season, we need to allow that kind of threat to develop from midfield because it's been sorely missing for a while.
United fans are such a fickle bunch - some going as far as saying that we should loan pogba to the womens team till he can grow some balls. Now the outlooks seems to have changed.
It's no surprise Sanchez and Pogba both looked good in a team that showed attacking intent and aggression. Good players don't turn bad overnight. The onus is on Mourinho (and always has been) to get them playing well. It's Mou who needs to grow a pair. Not the players.
When they scored two, the intensity changed, the pressing changed because we played like we had nothing to lose. When we scored 3 the pressing and the intensity dropped and city again created chances with ease. It just goes to show that the attitude and the intent matters a lot.
Mou needs to get it right in the big games (and in his defense he has got it right in at least one half of every big premier league game). But to shut up shop from the get go, trying to not conceede and playing only on the counter is not a stratergy that works against any big team in the league except against arsenal.
Hopefully in the summer Jose finds the right kind of players to go toe to toe with big teams rather than hide/sleep for one half and wake up frantically in the other.
It's no surprise Sanchez and Pogba both looked good in a team that showed attacking intent and aggression. Good players don't turn bad overnight. The onus is on Mourinho (and always has been) to get them playing well. It's Mou who needs to grow a pair. Not the players.
When they scored two, the intensity changed, the pressing changed because we played like we had nothing to lose. When we scored 3 the pressing and the intensity dropped and city again created chances with ease. It just goes to show that the attitude and the intent matters a lot.
Mou needs to get it right in the big games (and in his defense he has got it right in at least one half of every big premier league game). But to shut up shop from the get go, trying to not conceede and playing only on the counter is not a stratergy that works against any big team in the league except against arsenal.
Hopefully in the summer Jose finds the right kind of players to go toe to toe with big teams rather than hide/sleep for one half and wake up frantically in the other.
I get the eagerness to jump at the magic solution and of course he will excuse himself but there have been games when we have player him as a 10 AND in a midfield 3, both systems give him freedom to make those runs but he didn't show the aggression. It is easy to get carried away, but thus far I haven't seen enough evidence that he would do this consistently. When we are chasing a game, 2-0 down and have nothing to lose, players are more likely to bomb forward and get our tails up. In normal match circumstances, I don't know if that would be the case. Hopefully Carrick drill is into him.
I think you've forgotten our tactics in those games. In the last 20 minutes of them, we'd switch Mkhitaryan out to the right, bring on another midfielder and push Pogba further forward. He always had another midfielder behind him when he was making those runs.
I agree with most of your points other than this game demonstrates that we already have the players to go toe to toe with top teams.
The last few big games have shown to me the huge difference in performance and importantly results that more positive tactics brings.