Jose "We did to them what they don't like"

[Untd55]

Says the one who's clearly worked up over people he doesn't know

Not really. Debates are just completely pointless if it just ends in 'I don't like Moaninho'. Seriously, it's childish.

People make it far too personal. There didn't seem to be any dislike between Mourinho and the United players last night. People want things to be there that don't exist.

 

[Paxi]

If I was a spurs fan I’d be devastated with that sort of football.

Can’t imagine what it’s like.. oh wait.. I can.

 

[Paxi]

It was awful to watch and a great reminder that he's not our manager anymore.

I like José - he’s charismatic and used to be a great manager but he’s so done in the modern game. I’m also glad he’s not our manager anymore.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Jose‘s problem is that he doesn’t want to play his game, he wants to prevent others from playing their game. His philosophy is absolutely opposite to United values.

 

[Withnail]

Not really. Debates are just completely pointless if it just ends in 'I don't like Moaninho'. Seriously, it's childish.

People make it far too personal. There didn't seem to be any dislike between Mourinho and the United players last night. People want things to be there that don't exist.

What do you think the players are going to do? Snub him? Bit of a strange point.

I was just pointing out the irony. If you don't see it fair enough.

 

[Brightonian]

Yes, I remember having this guy as manager. It's almost as frustrating and dull when it works as when it doesn't. And it's important to note that it didn't work out, because we equalised. But it's nice that we've now clawed back that level of respect amongst the big teams that Spurs consider hanging on to a draw at home against us an achievement.

If the game is played with fully match-fit players or if Pogba and Greenwood play for longer in it, we win. Jose was saved by the bell this time, but he will continue to find out that it's not a repeatable trick.

 

[Greck]

Let’s be honest, with Rashford and Martial match fit we would have won that 3/4-1. Rashford would have scored that first goal causing them to break deep discipline. Martial would have scored his Bruno pass. Rashford would have scored that piece of godly talent from Pogba. Greenwood would have scored his automatic routine crossover shot in the end.

mouringo would have come out and blamed the ref anyway

This fitness thing is ridiculous. Everyone was under the same lockdown.

Anyway the quotes were sensationalised to sound like he was taking a shot. He mentioned it while listing a bunch of things he liked about his team's performance. At the time it didn't really come across to me that he was trying to highlight our weaknesses against lowblocks. Doing "things they didnt like" i thought referred to making the likes of AWB and James feel uncomfortable and making things tough for Bruno.

 

[KirkDuyt]

He just scraped by with a point at home after a huge feck up lead to their goal. No one likes playing a wall of defenders in their own box, big whoop you genius.

 

[Freak]

What exactly did he do besides putting all 11 men behind the ball? It's not some genius tactical trick. They got some luck with the goal and did absolutely nothing after. Yes we failed to break down these deep defences but as soon as Pogba and Greenwood came on we turned the gear up and should have gotten a second goal.

 

[Withnail]

This fitness thing is ridiculous. Everyone was under the same lockdown.

Anyway the quotes were sensationalised to sound like he was taking a shot. He mentioned it while listing a bunch of things he liked about his team's performance. At the time it didn't really come across to me that he was trying to highlight our weaknesses against lowblocks. Doing "things they didnt like" i thought referred to making the likes of AWB and James feel uncomfortable and making things tough for Bruno.

No idea what you mean here.

When the players are fully match fit their touch and accuracy will be better and they'll be more likely to create and score chances.

 

[Adam-Utd]

What exactly did he do besides putting all 11 men behind the ball? It's not some genius tactical trick. They got some luck with the goal and did absolutely nothing after. Yes we failed to break down these deep defences but as soon as Pogba and Greenwood came on we turned the gear up and should have gotten a second goal.

It’s exactly why I hated him as manager. We would often play this way and be awful until we went 1-0 down, then suddenly had to come out and throw the kitchen sink at teams to win.

on the odd occasion we’d score first then we’d sit back and defend and try to counter attack (which we rarely did well) and our defence couldn’t soak up the pressure or keep the ball.

we’d end up letting the other teams back into the match so often.

In the modern game if you give the other team 70% of the ball there’s a good chance they’ll score.

 

[ChaddyP]

He coached most of our players. Obviously knew how to win against them.

Yet he hasn't won against them in 2 attempts...

 

[mu4c_20le]

It’s exactly why I hated him as manager. We would often play this way and be awful until we went 1-0 down, then suddenly had to come out and throw the kitchen sink at teams to win.

Their own fans hated it. It's suffocation football.

 

[M16Red]

When Pogba and Greenwood came on, we looked a lot more creative. Pegged Spurs back and on another day, I felt we could have nicked it.

Going forward, if we start the mentioned players in the games where we'd expect to have most of the ball, then I don't see why we womt be able to break teams down.

Our next game against Sheff will be a good indication of how far we've possibly come regards creativity. They're a team that set up well.

I hope soon, I think Ole has built a good squad of young players.

It's just that final piece missing somewhere, I was thinking about Beckham in this team... Even the one with curtains, I think it would be something.

Remember them cross field balls to Giggs..

 

[Zen86]

He was comparing it to how Fergie teams played

even worse

 

[Mindhunter]

I was pointing out to my wife how similar Spurs looked to our boys when Mourinho was the manager. I would rather drop points occasionally than play with such soul wrenching "pragmatism".

As a supporter, watching a game being played just for the points defeats the whole purpose of the game. Spurs are a shadow of themselves now and the harm he is doing will take ages to overturn, especially on the smaller budget.

 

[Greck]

No idea what you mean here.

When the players are fully match fit their touch and accuracy will be better and they'll be more likely to create and score chances.

It means it works both ways. Our opponents were also rusty. If everyone is fit the best player on paper could also be a sharp Harry Kane. That's without even factoring the headache of Moura running at Maguire on counters. Was certainly relieved he wasn't available

 

[Withnail]

It means it works both ways. Our opponents were also rusty. If everyone is fit the best player on the pitch would also be a fit Harry Kane. That's without even factoring Moura running at Maguire on counters

I think the point was as we were dominating possession and creating chances being fully match fit would have benefited us more.

Given the fitness levels on show it was always going to be a low scoring affair.

 

[Red_Aaron]

That comment is straight out of moyes' mufc quote book.

It was only a few months ago he was in charge of us and went publicly creaming himself over the spurs squad. Now he's in charge of it he's got it stinking the place out.

Sacking him was the best decision we've made post saf

 

[lex talionis]

Jose didn't take the point as much as Ole gave the two points away. He waited far too long to bring on Pogba and really should have started him. You can forgive Ole for starting James, but not waiting as long as he did to bring him off for Greenwood, who's already miles and miles superior to James and works very well in tight spaces against parked buses.

Jose should send Ole a bottle of wine as thanks.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Don't worry mate these lot will soon wake up and see how rapidly we are regressing under this dinosaur and his "hoof ball" tactics. All the excuses were out for him prior to lock down regarding injuries/fatigue/no time spent together/etc, yet after a mini pre season, rested players, fully fit squad and time to think of tactics we still stink the place out.

Launching the ball to Kane's head, sitting back and trying to defend a fortuitous lead and players treating the ball like a hot potato is the Jose way. His whole ideology is "if you don't have the ball then you can't make a mistake' neagtive BS. Levy has royally fecked up appointing this mug thinking a change of voice would get the best out of this squad hence qualification for the CL. Well 7 months on we're a total shambles under this mug with fans now openly saying we need wholesale change in the squad... exactly what MP was bleating on about since the MUFC FA Cup semi defeat 2 years back. The difference being we now got a manager with no history of team building to do so with little money.

Those twats who were salivating at the thought of this c**t managing us, I hope you're enjoying what you're seeing right now. Suck it up as it's not going to get any better, in fact it'll get toxic!!!

feck OFF Mourinho!!!

so glad he isn't our manager any more

 

[anant]

I think the issue with his pragmatism is that it just doesn't work when you consider the larger picture. Within the big 6 table, there are 30 points at stake. A club like Spurs should be happy with 10 out of the possible 30 points as they're one of the weaker big 6 sides. Now to get those 10 points, There are two options, first being to go for wins in your home games against Arsenal, Chelsea, Utd and getting atleast a draw away at one of these 3 sides. Anything you get vs City and Pool is a bonus. And the alternative being 10 draws, which simply isn't going to happen.
Yesterday's was a home game against a side that is 4 points above them. They needed a win to have a good chance of finishing in one of the CL places.
Looking at yesterday's game, it just seemed that the plan was to have 10 people behind the ball and launch the ball long when you get the possession. That system would simply not work when Kane's your striker and especially when he's coming back from a long term injury. Pumping the ball would have worked 10 years ago when defenders including FBs weren't particularly fast and they played a high line. However, its no longer the case. In our side alone, AWB has great pace, Lindelof's pace without the ball is similar to most attacker's pace with the ball and hence he can catch them and Shaw isn't particularly slow. So, instead of doing that, target weaknesses of the opposition - aerial balls, counters from Shaw's side as he ends up pretty high on the pitch quite often and so on.
As everyone has been saying, Mou's tactics are past it. He hasn't reinvented himself over time and the decline is evident.

 

[theklr]

On a side note, whats up with those waterbreaks? Totally killed our momenum in 2nd half..

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

What exactly did he do besides putting all 11 men behind the ball? It's not some genius tactical trick. They got some luck with the goal and did absolutely nothing after. Yes we failed to break down these deep defences but as soon as Pogba and Greenwood came on we turned the gear up and should have gotten a second goal.

I really hope people now can see the difference between parking the bus & counter attack. The difference between defending under Mourinho & under Ole. Under Mourinho it was pure defensive, he often only leave 1 player up front which is Lukaku. Everytime we won the ball back, we couldn't make counter attack but end up giving the ball away or pass the ball across the back. However, under Ole, when we are defending against top opposition, we often leave 3 attackers at front or at least always ready for counter to score goals. Big difference.

 

[Withnail]

On a side note, whats up with those waterbreaks? Totally killed our momenum in 2nd half..

Killed it in the first half too

 

[SinNombre]

I fear for the Spurs fans.

Jose seems to have already reduced their expectations to a level where they are happy to park the bus to "win" a point at home against a top-4 contender.

And in a game which they could have easily lost (0.6xG vs 1.7xG) and only 0.16 xG for the entire second half.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that Jose was going to park the bus. So why start James then? I actually like him, but I know his limitations. That game was screaming for Mata to start on the right and Pogba and Bruno playing in the 8 1/2 (think DeBruyne and Silva) with Matic holding down the fort

 

[georgipep]

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that Jose was going to park the bus. So why start James then? I actually like him, but I know his limitations. That game was screaming for Mata to start on the right and Pogba and Bruno playing in the 8 1/2 (think DeBruyne and Silva) with Matic holding down the fort

Because before the Bergwjin goal (and until around the 60th minute) Tottenham were dangerous in attack. Mata might be more inventive but he's definitely a less suitable wing player in defence. James and AWB didn't give Davies and Son a sniff all game. Mata wouldn't bother Davies one bit and he would bomb forward just like Aurier did with Rashford not tracking back.

Pogba and Matic would mean that we are far less combative and mobile in midfield to start the game, which is very risky, considering Tottenham players are fresh in the beginning. Bringing them on when they were tired was far smarter.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Because before the Bergwjin goal (and until around the 60th minute) Tottenham were dangerous in attack. Mata might be more inventive but he's definitely a less suitable wing player in defence. James and AWB didn't give Davies and Son a sniff all game. Mata wouldn't bother Davies one bit and he would bomb forward just like Aurier did with Rashford not tracking back.

Pogba and Matic would mean that we are far less combative and mobile in midfield to start the game, which is very risky, considering Tottenham players are fresh in the beginning. Bringing them on when they were tired was far smarter.

Completely disagree. Mata has played that position several times and does his work on both ends of the field. And I doubt Davies would get forward much considering Aurier was pretty much camped deep in our half whenever they had the ball. As for Matic and Pogba, I completely disagree again. Tottenham was sitting back. They weren't pressuring. We needed creativity to open them up. Did you watch the last half hour of the game? If anything says that I was right all along that was it...

 

[Luke1995]

He's one of the worst things to happen to the club in decades, I'm so glad he's no longer here.

This issue is really going to define whether Solskjaer is going to be any good here long-term though. Liverpool had a similar problem in the first year and a half or so under Klopp where they were very good against the better sides but sometimes struggled to beat the lesser sides, I know Tottenham aren't necessarily a lesser side but Mourinho's tactics are fairly unique among managers at elite teams.

Liverpool resolved that through really smart recruitment, by coaching and through tweaking their tactics (having probably the best manager in the world helps), I have serious reservations whether we will see the same happen at United but Ole needs a chance to try to find a solution.

It's amazing how Liverpool had such a poor season under Brendan Rodgers in 2014-15 and two seasons later, looked like a whole different level.

Now, since i'm not going to quote every person who quoted me on my Jose commentary, I must say: My brain freezed for a moment and I thought Tottenham had won the game. Later on I realized it was a draw...

But, I do wonder if Mourinho's ''win at all costs'' thinking pattern would have worked here if given one more season. Historically, he managed to have that short term sucess, even if he couldn't create a dinasty. I think with Ole, that sucess could come at a slower pace. But can't deny that the atmosphere Jose created was somewhat toxic

 

[Luke1995]

Ole's ability as a tactician has no bearing on the fact Mourinho had to go. Mourinho's time here was all sorts of awful, at least after that first season. We could've replaced him by a better manager, that's all.

I think a big part of Mourinho's project relied on having Ibra, who was one of his first signings. Once Ibra got that injury in 2017, Mourinho struggled to build the team around the other strikers.

For example, in that league cup final against Southampton, Ibra was decisive, with the team playing to his strenghts, and this claim is backed by the amount of goals he scored in that season.

I think at the time, Rashford and Martial weren't able to have consistency in their goal scoring ratio...

Anyway, sure, if most fans think he had to go... people are right.

 

[georgipep]

Completely disagree. Mata has played that position several times and does his work on both ends of the field. And I doubt Davies would get forward much considering Aurier was pretty much camped deep in our half whenever they had the ball. As for Matic and Pogba, I completely disagree again. Tottenham was sitting back. They weren't pressuring. We needed creativity to open them up. Did you watch the last half hour of the game? If anything says that I was right all along that was it...

Do you make a difference between the first 60 minutes of a game and the last 30? Have you heard that players tire themselves as time goes by?

If you believe Mata can keep Davies on his toes as much as James can, especially intterms of running in the space vacated behind him, I don't know how to answer or argue that.

I think we have fundamentally different views on football, physiology and tactics.

 

[Glorio]

Going by some comments here, Klopp, Mane, and Firminho must be clueless and terrible as Liverpool couldn't cut through Everton's low block. It takes a certain level of muppetry to want to swagger away to Spurs and just roll them over.

I 100% understood Ole's decision to play it safe because we were going away to a big side with their best attacking players back, and thought to go with what worked prior to the break.

I've read some ridiculous views on here, one actually claimed Spurs isn't a big side. Well, if you took off the rose tinted glasses and the heady euphoria before the game, you may have appreciated that Tottenham has finished above us a good few times now, and done better in the Champions League, so they deserved respect. Ole probably didn't anticipate how negatively José and his team would have approached the game.

To the suggestion that anyone would have anticipated the approach, I don't agree. Sometimes Jose's teams have tried to get a quick start in order to get a lead to hang on to (which they did anyway), they don't necessarily start all big games parking the bus, and especially as they needed the points more than us, it was only natural to be a tad cautious

 

[pocco]

Bit late to the thread but it seemed to me that Spurs only played deep in the second half when Kane looked like he was running in treacle.

In the first half I was frustrated because they were compact yet putting pressure on us all across the pitch, where we just aimlessly turned over the ball when hitting it long. Fred and McTominay kept losing it in the middle too.

It was like a taste of both things we don't like, compact teams and organised pressure on our players. It's really frustrating how we struggle so much to keep possession in a controlled manner.

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Going by some comments here, Klopp, Mane, and Firminho must be clueless and terrible as Liverpool couldn't cut through Everton's low block. It takes a certain level of muppetry to want to swagger away to Spurs and just roll them over.

I 100% understood Ole's decision to play it safe because we were going away to a big side with their best attacking players back, and thought to go with what worked prior to the break.

I've read some ridiculous views on here, one actually claimed Spurs isn't a big side. Well, if you took off the rose tinted glasses and the heady euphoria before the game, you may have appreciated that Tottenham has finished above us a good few times now, and done better in the Champions League, so they deserved respect. Ole probably didn't anticipate how negatively José and his team would have approached the game.

To the suggestion that anyone would have anticipated the approach, I don't agree. Sometimes Jose's teams have tried to get a quick start in order to get a lead to hang on to (which they did anyway), they don't necessarily start all big games parking the bus, and especially as they needed the points more than us, it was only natural to be a tad cautious

Agreed, I definitely had no problems with the starting line-up, however I think it took Ole too long to bring Pogba and Greenwood on. Once Mourinho is ahead, you're pretty much guaranteed the full carpark plus Fred and McTominay performed very poorly in the midfield.

 

[Icemav]

I hope soon, I think Ole has built a good squad of young players.

It's just that final piece missing somewhere, I was thinking about Beckham in this team... Even the one with curtains, I think it would be something.

Remember them cross field balls to Giggs..

Pogba is our man here.

It was so congested in the first half that we needed to draw them in and surprise with longer passes, the amazing kind that Pogba can do. They were lucky to get us first game back.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Do you make a difference between the first 60 minutes of a game and the last 30? Have you heard that players tire themselves as time goes by?

If you believe Mata can keep Davies on his toes as much as James can, especially intterms of running in the space vacated behind him, I don't know how to answer or argue that.

I think we have fundamentally different views on football, physiology and tactics.

They rarely left space behind because they had their bus parked. So speed is then overrated. What you need is smart players who can find little holes of space. That's one thing that Mata is good at. Trust me, I wouldn't normally ask for Mata to start, but in this case, I would. As for the difference between the first 60 and last 30, it doesn't change when your opponent started with parking the bus and continued to park the bus for the whole game. If we had scored instead of them and it was us protecting a lead, with 30 minutes to go, then I would take Pogba and Mata off for the guys who started the game. But when a team is sitting deep, creativity is key, not speed...

 

[sglowrider]

No idea what you mean here.

When the players are fully match fit their touch and accuracy will be better and they'll be more likely to create and score chances.

And it matters more for strikers since they have far less time to dwell on the ball.

Just look at the supposedly best striker in the league, Harry Kane. He was out for months too and was anonymous. I don't think I heard his name being mentioned more than a handful of times during the match.

 

[Gasolin]

This fitness thing is ridiculous. Everyone was under the same lockdown.

Anyway the quotes were sensationalised to sound like he was taking a shot. He mentioned it while listing a bunch of things he liked about his team's performance. At the time it didn't really come across to me that he was trying to highlight our weaknesses against lowblocks. Doing "things they didnt like" i thought referred to making the likes of AWB and James feel uncomfortable and making things tough for Bruno.

I know it sounds ridiculous but I can't stop thinking that Rashford when he receives the ball from Pogba is ahead of any Spurs player in full fitness. He's in front of Lloris and that's a one to one.
Martial full fit is able to control first touch (which was not bad actually) when Bruno passes him, and then shoots right away instead of giving time to tackle. That's also another opportunity. I think the fitness could play a role in those 2 occasions at least.

 

[jem]

He coached most of our players. Obviously knew how to win against them.

Sometimes I still wish he hadn't been fired as i'm not sure Ole is good enough tactically, but whatever.

But even if Ole's not good enough, why would you still want Jose here? I honestly think Pogba, Martial and possibly even Rashford would have moved on if Jose were still here. And we'd likely be looking at an attack involving Perisic, Lukaku and Willian. There is nothing palatable about that.