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This. Sometimes women end up being the worst enemies of women empowerment.Very damaging for women who’ve actually been victims of sexual assault.
That was my point, but to be fair, recent events have shown how tough it still is for real victims. I honestly feel like we have regressed back to the 1800's hearing some of the shit from Trump and Republicans and their supporters. It's fecking scary.Very damaging for women who’ve actually been victims of sexual assault.
We had never progressed.That was my point, but to be fair, recent events have shown how tough it still is for real victims. I honestly feel like we have regressed back to the 1800's hearing some of the shit from Trump and Republicans and their supporters. It's fecking scary.
Why?Very damaging for women who’ve actually been victims of sexual assault.
Because it's really hard prove to being a rape victim. Its basically your word vs the abuser's.Why?
Every woman (& person, happens to guys too) that lies about sexual violence makes it worse for real victims. Already a lot of women are not believed.Why?
^Very damaging for women who’ve actually been victims of sexual assault.
Agree that malicious false accusations are truly horrible, but the ammo they give the 'she's lying/wanted it really' crowd is the worst thing. It's like the one outlier false accuser gets vilified x1,000 versus the thousands of guys who get away with rape each day, cos this had a verdict.Every woman (& person, happens to guys too) that lies about sexual violence makes it worse for real victims. Already a lot of women are not believed.
Not sure this is the case. So long as investigators and courts maintain a balanced stance, there's no reason why this needs to have an effect on real victims.Very damaging for women who’ve actually been victims of sexual assault.
You wot?Not sure this is the case. So long as investigators and courts maintain a balanced stance, there's no reason why this needs to have an effect on real victims.
Um.. The Kavanaugh thing wasn't a trial, for starters. Public reaction is what it is, all I was saying that if investigators put this incident in context (it's one person acting badly) this shouldn't have a knock on effect.You wot?
Have you been reading the thread? Or watching the news regarding the Kavenaugh (sham) trial? And the disgusting way Dr Ford was treated? And have you been reading the reports and articles regarding sexual assault victims and rape and how the majority don't come forward because of intimidation, ridicule, scared they won't be believed, or because the men are in a position of power?
While this woman's acts are despicable, saying or thinking all the recent events and coverage won't have knock on effects for real victims is incredibly naive.
Not really. If anything, this case proves the process largely works. All it took was a simple investigation to raise red flags and eventually get her to admit it was false. No credible media outlet would have gone anywhere near this story. Most of us would have never even heard of it if the Repubs weren't keen to share.Very damaging for women who’ve actually been victims of sexual assault.
It's a terrible thing to do, obviously. It's also a shame that for a lot of people this will probably vindicate a man who almost certainly is guilty of sexual assault and who now sits on the supreme courtHow are people even talking about the fact this might help the Republicans when the woman FALSELY ACCUSED A MAN OF RAPE? fecking hell, this place.
Some sort of sanction? She should be thrown in fecking jail for this.Dick move. She should receive some sort of sanction.
Because where does the burden of proof lie? It’s already known that the success rate of these cases is very low and the actual reporting rate even lower. What if the genuine victims deliberating over coming forward also had to contend with the possibility that a weak case in court could result in them having to deal with a counter case where they are under prosecution themselves.Despicable. Why don't we have stronger laws in place for this kind of thing? It's not like the potential damage to the victim is small.
Um.. The Kavanaugh thing wasn't a trial, for starters. Public reaction is what it is, all I was saying that if investigators put this incident in context (it's one person acting badly) this shouldn't have a knock on effect.
1. Stats and records show otherwise. Sexual abuse cases and rapes are one of the lowest reported, prosecuted and convicted crimes.To be quite honest I don't really see the impact that false allegations would have, on both the justice system and actual victims of the crime. I think the effect of false allegations is greatly exaggerated.
Rape is a crime. In all Western countries convictions for crimes require "evidence beyond reasonable doubt", putting the onus on the prosecution to prove the defendants guilt. Hence convictions rates for rape are at sub 50% rate (at least in England/Wales). I don't see how false rape allegations would influence that in either direction. As for the victims, why would someone making a false allegations stop someone coming forward with genuine allegations?
Right. And what's the link between what you mentioned and false allegations? Because I can't find anything credible. I'm here to be convinced. How does this case have any significant bearing on how judges and jury see the next case?1. Stats and records show otherwise. Sexual abuse cases and rapes are one of the lowest reported, prosecuted and convicted crimes.
Literally one reply in this thread was along those lines. And none since your comment. It's hardly damning or indicative.How are people even talking about the fact this might help the Republicans when the woman FALSELY ACCUSED A MAN OF RAPE? fecking hell, this place.
How are people even talking about the fact this might help the Republicans when the woman FALSELY ACCUSED A MAN OF RAPE? fecking hell, this place.
Yeah, because Kavanaugh is still the victim here.Despicable. Why don't we have stronger laws in place for this kind of thing? It's not like the potential damage to the victim is small.
Proven false allegations give Trump and his supporter base more reasons to cry about the massive problem of women falsely accusing men of sexual miconduct (a problem that only exists in their worm infested brains). This in turn leads to these idiots accusing victims of lying, which makes it even worse for victims to come forward.Right. And what's the link between what you mentioned and false allegations? Because I can't find anything credible. I'm here to be convinced. How does this case have any significant bearing on how judges and jury see the next case?
Sexual assault and rape claims are notoriously hard to get convictions for because 90% of them are perpetrated by persons known to the victim and unless it was violent in nature there can be very little forensic evidence. How would a handful of false allegations have any impact on the process of this?
I think I read a statistic that said there are 90-odd thousands sexual assault claims a year (80k towards women, 12k towards men) and of those only 35 are false allegations. While about 40% of those that end up with charges being filed end up in conviction. The number of false allegations are quite insignificant to the number of reports and number of convictions, so what makes you think they have any more gravitas than the convictions or affect the due process?
The case of Kavanaugh is a very politicised case, so anything coming off it would be used by the GOP or the Dems to make political capital. That's to be expected to a certain extent.
I never said it would have any effect on how a judge or just see a case. I said the whole shitshow will deter real victims from coming forward.Right. And what's the link between what you mentioned and false allegations? Because I can't find anything credible. I'm here to be convinced. How does this case have any significant bearing on how judges and jury see the next case?
.
We live in a complicated world where you can be a victim and perpetrator at the same time. Particularly when you're talking about entirely separate events.Yeah, because Kavanaugh is still the victim here.
I haven’t heard anyone reputable mention a “massive problem of women lying”. Correct me if I'm wrong. That sounds a bit like a strawman to me. The argument that women, on very rare occasion, lie about this is why people claim that due process is important. Because our legal system works on the premise that it’s better to let 100s of guilty people walk free than put 1 innocent behind bars. That’s the most vocal argument I heard against the #BelieveWomen movement, rather than an exaggeration of the amount of women lying.Proven false allegations give Trump and his supporter base more reasons to cry about the massive problem of women falsely accusing men of sexual miconduct (a problem that only exists in their worm infested brains). This in turn leads to these idiots accusing victims of lying, which makes it even worse for victims to come forward.
But why though? Why would a genuine victim be put off by the cases of false allegations? I mean I would be put off by the low conviction rates, for sure, but why would the handful of false flag cases deter me. If the argument is because it emboldens those who will call you a liar then, as mentioned above, if you make allegations you will be called a liar by the defence and have to prove the defendant's guilt.I never said it would have any effect on how a judge or just see a case. I said the whole shitshow will deter real victims from coming forward.
Obviously, people who aren't brokebrained know it's not a real problem. However, a (hopefully) small but vocal part of the population, including the US President, seem to believe that it is. High-profile instances like these only serve to reinforce their belief that women lying is a common occurence. While it might not result in a different reaction towards a victim who comes forward, the regressive brokebrains banging on about all the women that lie to ruin men could very well strengthen their fear of being called a liar, thus making them more reluctant to come forward.I haven’t heard anyone reputable mention a “massive problem of women lying”. Correct me if I'm wrong. That sounds a bit like a strawman to me. The argument that women, on very rare occasion, lie about this is why people claim that due process is important. Because our legal system works on the premise that it’s better to let 100s of guilty people walk free than put 1 innocent behind bars. That’s the most vocal argument I heard against the #BelieveWomen movement, rather than an exaggeration of the amount of women lying.