Just how bad were we today?

90 + 5min

Full Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
5,370
I've seen people coming out of the woodwork on social media and youtube I havent seen in years calling this the worst performance in the post-Fergie era. We've taken some batterings in that people, but even the 0-7 wasnt as one sided as that. 31 shots from a team who have lost well over a dozen games this year. Shit.
It wasn’t that bad. Of course not good but reaction have been to much. Yes, they had couple of chances and some woodwoork but my overall opinion is that should they score We would just step up and score. We just didn’t play to win. We didn’t show energy and didn’t take commando. We let them decide tempo of the game.
 

RedIan

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Messages
3,161
Location
Manchester
It really was that bad! We were dreadful. Very very bad. Brentford hit the post and bar at least 4 times, an inch the other way they score 5. Throw in some very good saves by Onana along with some good chances put wide. They created the most chances they have had for 9 years. It could and should have been 6-1 to Brentford.

The biggest concern is ETH persisting with a system that allows even relegation candidate teams to create record numbers of shots and chances. Teams cut through us far to easily, we leave gaping holes in midfield and around the edge of the box.

Its been going on all season yet our manager persists with the same formation.

McT as one of two main midfielders was missing in action the whole game. bruno is attacking and it leaves Mainoo who has a bug left alone covering the huge gaps.
The forwards all had an off day. Rashford was back to jogging around and not track8ng runners, Garnacho was the same. Hojlund couldnt hold the ball up. A general lack of quality and effort was evident in 7-8 players.
1-1 massively flattered us. I was embarrassed when we scored and looked like we may snatch it.
 

Abraxas

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
6,090
We've had some stinkers under ETH but that was right up there, the scoreline spares some blushes but beneath the surface it was every bit as bad as the thrashings we've had. In some ways worse than some of them as we didn't compete mentally or physically, it was nothing to do with sloppy defensive errors etc. Brentford killed us and created loads because we weren't interested in competing.
 

Ollie Derbyshire

Full Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
2,329
We have seen this exact type of performance more often then not this season, it’s nothing new, we have lacked energy and fight in nearly all matches I can remember, both in the EPL and CL. I can’t remember a game we controlled for long periods at all this season, yes we have a couple of games where they decided to give it their all, I.e., the Liverpool game, but they are the outliers, and they are because the emotions take over and the crowd get them going, anyone who thinks they are our ’level’ are kidding themselves. Yesterday is our current level. We are only in 6th position due to pure luck. We should have actually lost a lot more this season and comfortably be in the bottom half of the table. The commentators kept going on about Brentford losing 14 of the last 18 games, that could easily have been us.

Why is this? For me it’s everything.
Ownership - Accepting mediocrity in performance and professionalism. They give underperforming managers and players far too long to ‘turn’ it around as they are happy with the business side.
Terrible recruitment - I don’t think anyone could argue against this, we have been far too scattergun in our approach.
Player Management - We seem to always have ‘reported’ issues with someone in the squad and the managers.
Coaching - Must be non existent as we put in the most horrific displays and haven’t played like a cohesive team in years. We are the worst coached team in the league by far and make every team we play look like prime Barca.
Players - Either simply not good enough for the level we are aiming for (not their fault, we bought them) or are but can’t be bothered because they aren’t ‘happy’. Also we have a lot of senior players in the squad, they need to take some responsibility on the pitch and ‘manage’ the team and mould them into a unit. They don’t do this and just look bemused that things are going so badly.

We have a lot of issues from top to bottom, they have been there for years and it will take time to sort it all out. My hope is INEOS will not accept this level of performance and professionalism and move fast to cut out the rot.
 

TwoSheds

More sheds (and tiles) than you, probably
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
13,013
I know why people are saying all this stuff - the rest of the season's very average football has primed it - but there were mitigating circumstances in that game. Out of position LB (again), Lindelof having to start, Maguire and Varane only being fit for half a game each, Mainoo being ill a couple of days earlier, Martinez being half fit when he had to come on, Garnacho having travelled from playing in LA only 3 days or so earlier, Hojlund I don't know what but surely he can't have been fit because he was cack, Bruno and Dalot looked knackered too. Rashford gets a lot of shit and I know he didn't play particularly well but I thought his work rate was at least good and we didn't get him the ball enough for long spells. McTominay perhaps suffering the after effects of 2 poor defeats with Scotland? No Amad because the ref in that Liverpool game was a cnut...

I mean don't get me wrong, they're all fecking useless, and I think Ten Hag could have made some different tactical choices (e.g. switching Dalot and Wan Bissaka) but despite all that we got a draw away. And if it weren't for having to throw Martinez on we might even have won. And Mount did a thing, so there's that at least.
 

Ollie Derbyshire

Full Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
2,329
I know why people are saying all this stuff - the rest of the season's very average football has primed it - but there were mitigating circumstances in that game. Out of position LB (again), Lindelof having to start, Maguire and Varane only being fit for half a game each, Mainoo being ill a couple of days earlier, Martinez being half fit when he had to come on, Garnacho having travelled from playing in LA only 3 days or so earlier, Hojlund I don't know what but surely he can't have been fit because he was cack, Bruno and Dalot looked knackered too. Rashford gets a lot of shit and I know he didn't play particularly well but I thought his work rate was at least good and we didn't get him the ball enough for long spells. McTominay perhaps suffering the after effects of 2 poor defeats with Scotland? No Amad because the ref in that Liverpool game was a cnut...

I mean don't get me wrong, they're all fecking useless, and I think Ten Hag could have made some different tactical choices (e.g. switching Dalot and Wan Bissaka) but despite all that we got a draw away. And if it weren't for having to throw Martinez on we might even have won. And Mount did a thing, so there's that at least.
Brentford were missing their whole back 4, I’ve no idea about the rest if the team, so we can’t use any excuse regarding our missing players. Also now a days all teams in the PL lose players during international weekends so again no excuses.

I don’t usually say this but please don’t make excuses for that awful performance. Injuries and an international break doesn’t mean you can’t play like a cohesive team.
 

Catt

Ole's at the wheel!
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
28,058
Location
Norway
Fed up. Can't comprehend how this team manages to look that bad.
 

glazed

Eats diamonds to beat thermodynamics
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
7,790
Just out of interest what is making you want to keep ETH?
Seriously what have you seen this season that makes you believe he deserves to stay?
It goes back to an earlier post saying he was crap at Ajax and just lucky with the players he had and the great club structure. Turn that thought on its head and realise how bad the club structure is at Manchester United and how much harder that is to deal with in a huge organisation. For over a decade it's been fine tuned to churn out mediocrity and snatch Champions League every so often. Changing that won't take one or two seasons and it has to happen far above his head. Meanwhile I feel like his values are the right ones and if he can get the right players and the right infrastructure then he will come good. His ultimate aim of a fast transitioning high press team that is young and athletic with attacking flair and discipline, that's what I want too. None of the previous post SAF managers have even tried to offer that. I see the players that fit that mould improving in leaps and bounds, while the ones that don't (Ronaldo, Casemiro, Lindelof, Maguire etc) are the ones that will slowly disappear.

I think if Klopp or Pep was our manager with the situation he inherited, we might still be in 6th place. I can't know that and maybe it would be fourth. Truth is they would never come to find out because they know a shitshow when they see one. The fact that ETH came makes me grateful to him.

That said, he has made quite a few errors and I don't seek to underplay that. And yes the crap performances like yesterday are soul destroying to watch. But in a healthy club he never would have been in a position where he was exposed that way. In a healthy club he is for me possibly a very good manager. I want to see the club structure fixed before I decide I'm wrong because otherwise we're doing what we've been doing for a decade - making the coach the scapegoat for a broken organisation. I think a lot of football fans do that, but I also think - and I mean this kindly - a lot of football fans are kneejerk and not very willing to think beyond what they see on the pitch. And it's that fan stupidity - for want of a better word - that allowed the Glazers to fob us off with sugary treats instead of nutrition for decades while they wrecked the club. I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now.
 

SteveCoppellFan

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
881
Someone really need to explain to me how we can put in that type of performance right after that Liverpool game.

Surely that is on the players and not the manager ?
 

Ollie Derbyshire

Full Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2016
Messages
2,329
Someone really need to explain to me how we can put in that type of performance right after that Liverpool game.

Surely that is on the players and not the manager ?
The Liverpool game was a one off, an outlier, we still put in a terrible 45mins in that game were it looked like we had given up. The emotions of the game got to the players and they finally played to their ability but THIS is our current level.
 

Statue of Limitations

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
1,166
That was the most soul destroying game for a long while, totally battered.
Playing like that we lose that game 9 times out of 10.

We simply cannot allow the players to put in such a feeble performance again, that v City would have been at least 5-0.
 

TheNewEra

Knows Kroos' mentality
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
8,306
Hopefully in the Summer we start to see changes take place with the squad and more of an identity in the new season.
 

Betson

Full Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2012
Messages
2,305
The result did not show it but given the opposition I cannot remember a worse performance , we were utterly dominated and humiliated by Brentford and we had nothing in response.
 

SouthMancRed

Cheimoon's Fault
Joined
Aug 14, 2022
Messages
506
Someone really need to explain to me how we can put in that type of performance right after that Liverpool game.

Surely that is on the players and not the manager ?
It wasn't right after it though. It was two weeks later with numerous players playing two internationals in between. The immediate high and potential momentum from a victory like that disappeared as soon as the players broke up to fly around the world and focus on their country. International breaks are the work of the devil and this one couldn't have come at a worse time for us.
 

justsomebloke

Full Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
5,985
We were across-the-board horrible. What really gets to me was the way in which were horrible. It laid bare the essence of our style, showing what that looks like on a below-par evening, which every team has now and then. Little to no control in the midfield, ball-loss bonanza, and seemingly no ambition to contest control in the area immediately around our box, in favor of just backing up into the box and getting bodies between the goal and the shots. You realize all these things are there also on the nights when things go well, and that the essential difference between success and being outplayed is a slight drop in timing, aggressiveness and passing accuracy. ETH in his post match comments confirm what is already obvious; this is how we want to play.

You ask yourself if this way of playing is really a sustainable route to winning. I can't think of any successful team in the history of football who was happy to invite the opposing team to camp out along their box and bombard you with shots. Maybe it's nevertheless possible, but I guess the real question is do we want to spend the next couple of seasons finding out?
 

Pjisared

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
159
I know why people are saying all this stuff - the rest of the season's very average football has primed it - but there were mitigating circumstances in that game. Out of position LB (again), Lindelof having to start, Maguire and Varane only being fit for half a game each, Mainoo being ill a couple of days earlier, Martinez being half fit when he had to come on, Garnacho having travelled from playing in LA only 3 days or so earlier, Hojlund I don't know what but surely he can't have been fit because he was cack, Bruno and Dalot looked knackered too. Rashford gets a lot of shit and I know he didn't play particularly well but I thought his work rate was at least good and we didn't get him the ball enough for long spells. McTominay perhaps suffering the after effects of 2 poor defeats with Scotland? No Amad because the ref in that Liverpool game was a cnut...

I mean don't get me wrong, they're all fecking useless, and I think Ten Hag could have made some different tactical choices (e.g. switching Dalot and Wan Bissaka) but despite all that we got a draw away. And if it weren't for having to throw Martinez on we might even have won. And Mount did a thing, so there's that at least.
Wow your glass is defo half full.
 

laughtersassassin

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
11,545
The thing is with ETH we play shite most games so it's hard to compare but considering Brighton had 80 touches in our box it's up there with the worst of the worst.

He'll be sacked soon hopefully
 

Charlie Foley

Full Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
18,533
Looking at our remaining fixtures I’m genuinely entertaining the thought we might not break 60 points. I could see us dropping in points in all of Liverpool, Arsenal, and Newcastle at home, and Chelsea, Brighton, and Bournemouth away. On the flip side we could win any one of them. It’s been such a topsy turvy season
 

Doracle

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
3,041
Just about as bad as Moyes' game against Fulham.

Could barely mount a proper attack. Looked like a team that was assembled for a charity match.
Bizarre comparison. If we produced a performance like that Moyes-Fulham match this season, we’d all be thrilled. 75% possession and 30+ shots and got done by a smash and grab. We were the equivalent of a Fulham 2014 in yesterdays match.
 

Mike Smalling

Full Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
11,282
Bizarre comparison. If we produced a performance like that Moyes-Fulham match this season, we’d all be thrilled. 75% possession and 30+ shots and got done by a smash and grab. We were the equivalent of a Fulham 2014 in yesterdays match.
Yeah, imagine if we were in a position to put in 81 crosses for Højlund. I’d be over the moon with that, considering the shit they served up yesterday :lol:
 

mu4c_20le

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
44,470
Someone really need to explain to me how we can put in that type of performance right after that Liverpool game.

Surely that is on the players and not the manager ?
Kind of, but not in the way you're thinking. That was his PSG moment, where we immediately lost to Arsenal in the league and then got knocked out by Wolves in the cup the following week. It is the players, but not because they intentionally down tools afterwareds, but because they truly gave everything in that game, and should actually be given credit for it. What happened afterwards simply proves results like Liverpool/PSG were abnormalities.
 

CloneMC16

Full Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2021
Messages
4,597
This game was barely any different to 80% of our others this season. We play like this almost every game. Constant horrible performances. Even with our injuries, the team should be nowhere near this bad.
 

Orange Tree

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
2,112
Bizarre comparison. If we produced a performance like that Moyes-Fulham match this season, we’d all be thrilled. 75% possession and 30+ shots and got done by a smash and grab. We were the equivalent of a Fulham 2014 in yesterdays match.
We were league champion just a season before. From winning the league to making 81 crosses against Dan Burn.
 

lsd

The Oracle
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
10,924
Someone really need to explain to me how we can put in that type of performance right after that Liverpool game.

Surely that is on the players and not the manager ?
There is absolutely no way you could watch that game last night and come to that conclusion.

It's totally on the manager and his lack of tactics and style. Brentford had over 30 shots on goal a record on the premiership yet those players were keeping them out.

That does not happen if the players are not trying. The players clearly have no idea of what they are being asked and it shows in every game when we are just totally outplayed and outcoached.

Ten hag supporters just issue excuse after excuse for him and it's getting pathetic. Whether it's injuries which happens every team, players not trying when they clearly are as shown by clawing out results when outplayed.

No left back when Ten Hag made a point of sending every back up left back on loan and returning the loanee left back he got for no reason.

Ten Hag has been an absolute fraud who is somehow getting by on these players managing to dig him out of a hole when his opponent coaches ruin rings around him tactically
 

Jeffthered

Full Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2015
Messages
2,728
I watched the game in disbelief. Not because I expect much, but because it is now acceptable at this great club, for players to simply not try or give a toss. That's what gets me now, Man Utd players just go through the motions. That's embarrassing.

But, but as many have previously stated, this comes as no surprise at all.
 

DavidDeSchmikes

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
17,355
We just look lost against a Brentford team that is out of form, missing players and fighting the threat of relegation
at no point did I feel we were in control.
 

Suspicious Swelling

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
70
Location
Norwich
Is it just me or do we always seem to get the 7.45 or 8pm kick offs away from home whenever there is one scheduled at times like bank holidays? I feel like we always get our fixture pushed to these kick off times and it's never a home game for us. The opposition fans are always well up for it having been getting pissed up all day, creating a problematic atmosphere for our players to cope with. It might just be me but would like to know the stats on it.

By the way, I am not using this as an excuse for how crap we are, we should still be doing much better than what we saw yesterday which is totally on the manager and bottlejob players.
 

mu4c_20le

Full Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
44,470
We just look lost against a Brentford team that is out of form, missing players and fighting the threat of relegation
at no point did I feel we were in control.
Reminds me of when I watched the second half and it was still goalless, and we were supposed to be looking for the winner, but Brentford were the ones passing the ball around outside our box confidently as they set up siege after siege. We looked like we were trying to win the ball back and counter, but they were on to us. It gave me the impression that ETH has no control over games, and the players themselves probably go into each game feeling uncertain. Usually we start strong and try to nick and early goal, but when things start looking nervy and we lose control, the players also lose confidence in the system. That's why we tend to crumble when things don't go as planned.
 

Kinky Melinky

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2000
Messages
27,157
Location
Sligo
Dreadful game. One of the worst United performances I've seen. Easily in the top 8 worst performances I've watched in all my time supporting United.
 

Dazzmondo

Full Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
9,383
Over the last 6 matches, we have the highest expected goals conceded of any team in the league apart from Luton. That's right, our defence has been worse than Burnley and Sheffield United
 

glazed

Eats diamonds to beat thermodynamics
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
7,790
:lol: Can the bar be set any lower, let’s just be happy he’s here.
How many managers do we tar and feather before we realise the manager is not the root problem?
 

AndySmith1990

Full Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2021
Messages
6,347
How many managers do we tar and feather before we realise the manager is not the root problem?
Is this silly point made at any other club? Do Real Madrid clamour for managers to be given time because they burn through too many?

There's a lot of bollocks posted on here in an effort to defend failure. We can see the coaching and tactical aspect is poor, and that is in no way related to structure or the Glazers
 

Roboc7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
6,722
You'd think from that post he's doing us a massive favor, as if he were SAF managing The Dog and Duck FC.
Total nonsense, ETH got turned down by Spurs and people are grateful he took the job at Utd, it’s crazy.
 

meninred

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 30, 2011
Messages
1,412
Can any stats man bring all the data please ?
I will start with few
yesterday
31 shots 14 corners conceded
85 touches to 16 touches in the opposition box


overall the worst performance under ten hag i remember
vs Liverpool 7-0 ( 8 shots 7 scored)
vs city 6-3
vs brentford 4-0
vs brentford 1-1
 

glazed

Eats diamonds to beat thermodynamics
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
7,790
Is this silly point made at any other club? Do Real Madrid clamour for managers to be given time because they burn through too many?

There's a lot of bollocks posted on here in an effort to defend failure. We can see the coaching and tactical aspect is poor, and that is in no way related to structure or the Glazers
There's even more bollocks posted by people with no understanding of the problem trying to explain failure though. Of course it's related to the structure when players weren't bought to fit any style of play. Why do you think INEOS have the strategy they do? Because they get it. They know a root and branch restructure is the answer, not binning the front man to appease top reds.

Yes there are problems but they are mainly caused by having the wrong players. The answer to to get rid of them and bring in or promote younger fitter better hungrier ones who play the way we want. But that takes time. On a good day we have seven of the starting 11 we need. That's massive progress. Getting rid of ETH is just knee jerk.

And Madrid are a well run club who get the best players in every position and have for years. If we had that then you would have a point. BUt we don't and you don't.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

New Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
8,363
Is this silly point made at any other club? Do Real Madrid clamour for managers to be given time because they burn through too many?

There's a lot of bollocks posted on here in an effort to defend failure. We can see the coaching and tactical aspect is poor, and that is in no way related to structure or the Glazers
This./

Now Ineos are in charge things won’t actually get easier in a manager. EyH has been given as free as season as any. If we were in 5th you’d have certain Caf members readying a GoFundMe for a statue. They haven’t spent a billion for constant excuses/poor football.

This is not the 6th best set of posters in the country.

Longing for a Fergie period is foolish, we’ll be seeing many a manager over the next few decades.