Just how bad were we today?

MadDogg

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There's even more bollocks posted by people with no understanding of the problem trying to explain failure though. Of course it's related to the structure when players weren't bought to fit any style of play. Why do you think INEOS have the strategy they do? Because they get it. They know a root and branch restructure is the answer, not binning the front man to appease top reds.
If they judge that the manager is part of the problem, they absolutely should be getting rid of him. What they shouldn't be doing in that situation (and I'm fairly confident that they won't) is thinking that it's only the manager that needs changing.

At the end of the day, they need to decide the basics and style that they want the club playing (which should be consistent throughout every team from the men's, youth, women's and even the likes of Nice). Then they should run the rule over all the parts of the team, and the two main parts of that are the players and the manager, and judge whether they are suitable. You don't just give one half of that equation a free pass because the other half isn't right. It is very possible (and looking increasingly likely) that we have major issues with both the playing staff and the managerial staff, in which case both need to be dealt with.
 

AndySmith1990

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There's even more bollocks posted by people with no understanding of the problem trying to explain failure though. Of course it's related to the structure when players weren't bought to fit any style of play. Why do you think INEOS have the strategy they do? Because they get it. They know a root and branch restructure is the answer, not binning the front man to appease top reds.

Yes there are problems but they are mainly caused by having the wrong players. The answer to to get rid of them and bring in or promote younger fitter better hungrier ones who play the way we want. But that takes time. On a good day we have seven of the starting 11 we need. That's massive progress. Getting rid of ETH is just knee jerk.

And Madrid are a well run club who get the best players in every position and have for years. If we had that then you would have a point. BUt we don't and you don't.
I understand that the problem is structure, management, coaching, and players.

What you do is say the problem is just structure, because the mistake you make is making it personal by developing weird fanboy behaviour towards a manager. Therefore you absolve him of blame by shifting it all to another area of the club.

Some people have done the same with players over the years. It creates a bias that makes any discussion pointless. You can't see the wood from the trees because your objective is always to create a narrative that protects your hero.

Is Ten Hag the only problem? Obviously not. Is he one of several problems? Yes he is. Therefore why wouldn't we fix all problems? You (and others in the cult of the manager) seem to foolishly assume that's the only change we want to see at the club. It's not one thing or another. I want to see the entire structure overhauled alongside wholesale changes to management, coaching and the squad. The lot of it has been rotten, mediocre, and unfit for purpose for years. Ten Hag very much falls into the category of mediocre.
 

Roboc7

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There's even more bollocks posted by people with no understanding of the problem trying to explain failure though. Of course it's related to the structure when players weren't bought to fit any style of play. Why do you think INEOS have the strategy they do? Because they get it. They know a root and branch restructure is the answer, not binning the front man to appease top reds.

Yes there are problems but they are mainly caused by having the wrong players. The answer to to get rid of them and bring in or promote younger fitter better hungrier ones who play the way we want. But that takes time. On a good day we have seven of the starting 11 we need. That's massive progress. Getting rid of ETH is just knee jerk.

And Madrid are a well run club who get the best players in every position and have for years. If we had that then you would have a point. BUt we don't and you don't.
A classic top red post complaining about top reds.

This argument has had its day, the vast majority know it’s not just the manager but some people still keep banging the drum like they are only ones who have figured it out.
 

Malons

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There's a lot of misrepresentation of what a 'structure' would do. It seems to hinge on an assumption that we'd have a guy with the Midas touch in the transfer market, set a style of play not do be deviated from and save the clubs millions in the process. I'm not sure that's how it works.

Clearly you'd want someone outside of the owner and the guy whose job is dependant on the next four results, to be involved in the recruitment of transfers. They'll get some scouting and technical reports as the owner and the head coach are currently basing their decisions on. He won't get a separate, magical technical report only available to special boys and girls, that will tell them to steer clear of players that are recommended to the manager. Of course someone with a long-term eye on transfers and the strategic direction of the club is sensible. But isn't a Football Manager cheat code. Nor is it someone telling the head coach how to play. Else why the hell would clubs spend so much money on their contracts and not put someone in place who can follow instruction? You can get that for less than £10m a year, I'm sure.

I just think this clamour for a DOF/Sporting Director (whatever you term it) structure has been so fierce over the years, that a lot of people have let themselves get carried away. Clubs with that structure still can and do make awful signings, under achieve, play awful football and spend a whole lot of money doing so. Someone to set the long-term strategic footballing direction of the club whose role isn't dependant on the next few results is sensible. But it really isn't this fantasy world of 'We'll make you head coach but Barry is really in charge he'll select the team, set the tactics and the style of play and he'll make all the signings, which will all work' that people seem to think it is.
 

justsomebloke

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There's a lot of misrepresentation of what a 'structure' would do. It seems to hinge on an assumption that we'd have a guy with the Midas touch in the transfer market, set a style of play not do be deviated from and save the clubs millions in the process. I'm not sure that's how it works.

Clearly you'd want someone outside of the owner and the guy whose job is dependant on the next four results, to be involved in the recruitment of transfers. They'll get some scouting and technical reports as the owner and the head coach are currently basing their decisions on. He won't get a separate, magical technical report only available to special boys and girls, that will tell them to steer clear of players that are recommended to the manager. Of course someone with a long-term eye on transfers and the strategic direction of the club is sensible. But isn't a Football Manager cheat code. Nor is it someone telling the head coach how to play. Else why the hell would clubs spend so much money on their contracts and not put someone in place who can follow instruction? You can get that for less than £10m a year, I'm sure.

I just think this clamour for a DOF/Sporting Director (whatever you term it) structure has been so fierce over the years, that a lot of people have let themselves get carried away. Clubs with that structure still can and do make awful signings, under achieve, play awful football and spend a whole lot of money doing so. Someone to set the long-term strategic footballing direction of the club whose role isn't dependant on the next few results is sensible. But it really isn't this fantasy world of 'We'll make you head coach but Barry is really in charge he'll select the team, set the tactics and the style of play and he'll make all the signings, which will all work' that people seem to think it is.
Surely it's clear to more or less everyone that appointing a DOF/Sporting director is not a magic wand solution, and that having strong upper management is not a sufficient cause for on-pitch success. But most think it's a necessary cause.
 

glazed

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I understand that the problem is structure, management, coaching, and players.

...Is Ten Hag the only problem? Obviously not. Is he one of several problems? Yes he is. Therefore why wouldn't we fix all problems? You (and others in the cult of the manager) seem to foolishly assume that's the only change we want to see at the club.
See this is where we disagree. I have no fanboy attachment to ETH and I see he's going wrong in all kinds of ways. Only an idiot could not see how bad we sometimes are. Other times we are quite impressive. Other times young players blow everyone away. That's how it is with young players. We need to build around young players because we can't do much else.

Booting ETH to me it feels like demanding a new steering wheel when you have a flat tire and broken suspension. Yes the steering wheel might be broken too but you can't know that till you've fixed the other problems. I see a manager saying and trying to do the right things and failing. That's a step up from managers not even trying to do that, which is what we've had since SAF. Remember Ole allowing Ronaldo's purchase because he felt he did not have the authority to say no? Remember the actual fanboys wetting themselves over it? And then remember ETH dropping him and then easing him out so he could get to the style of football he wanted. That's a guy I'm willing to back. Not forever but at least till the end of this year.

That said I don't think he will survive the summer if the Brentford performance happens again. He may not anyway. He's hanging by his fingernails.
 
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justsomebloke

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See this is where we disagree. I have no fanboy attachment to ETH and I see he's going wrong in all kinds of ways. Only an idiot could not see how bad we sometimes are. Other times we are quite impressive. Other times young players blow everyone away. That's how it is with young players. We need to build around young players because we can't do much else.

Booting ETH to me it feels like demanding a new steering wheel when you have a flat tire and broken suspension. Yes the steering wheel might be broken too but you can't know that till you've fixed the other problems. I see a manager saying and trying to do the right things and failing. That's a step up from managers not even trying to do that, which is what we've had since SAF. Remember Ole allowing Ronaldo's purchase because he felt he did not have the authority to say no? Remember the actual fanboys wetting themselves over it? And then remember ETH dropping him and then easing him out so he could get to the style of football he wanted. That's a guy I'm willing to back. Not forever but at least till the end of this year.

That said I don't think he will survive the summer if the Brentford performance happens again. He may not anyway. He's hanging by his fingernails.
To me the question is, is he really trying to do the right thing, but failing? I think that's starting to become quite a real question, because it's pretty evident that many of the things I dislike out there are done as a matter of choice. Such as the high press combined with a low defensive line, leaving those acres of space between the midfield and the defence when the ball is lost. Such as the backing into the box without contesting the flanks or the area in front of the box, allowing the opposition to maintain offensive pressure and trusting in our ability to block shots and win one-on-ones inside the box. Such as the extreme directness of our attack. All of those choices are fully explicable as a pragmatic way to make the most of what he's got available in the squad right now, injuries factored in. But I don't see how that at some point translates into a viable style for a title contender. Which points in the direction that he's basically paddling to avoid sinking, rather than building a viable path to contention which we just aren't good enough to implement properly yet. If that's the case, it's a bigger black mark than the current results, as depressing as those are.
 

glazed

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To me the question is, is he really trying to do the right thing, but failing? I think that's starting to become quite a real question, because it's pretty evident that many of the things I dislike out there are done as a matter of choice. Such as the high press combined with a low defensive line, leaving those acres of space between the midfield and the defence when the ball is lost. Such as the backing into the box without contesting the flanks or the area in front of the box, allowing the opposition to maintain offensive pressure and trusting in our ability to block shots and win one-on-ones inside the box. Such as the extreme directness of our attack. All of those choices are fully explicable as a pragmatic way to make the most of what he's got available in the squad right now, injuries factored in. But I don't see how that at some point translates into a viable style for a title contender. Which points in the direction that he's basically paddling to avoid sinking, rather than building a viable path to contention which we just aren't good enough to implement properly yet. If that's the case, it's a bigger black mark than the current results, as depressing as those are.
There's a lot of truth in this. If he had prime Casemiro and not leggy old man Casemiro it might have worked.

It was evident from day 1 this season he would have to compromise on midfield openness or else revert back to counter attacking, both of which he has done on occasion. But then he has Amrabat, Erikson and McT as alternates, none of whom are good enough to play this way. Rice was available and we didn't buy him. Further back, Varane, Lindelof and Maguire are not good options either for anything but a low defensive block. Bottom line is we are in an ugly, slow, painful transition period that was well disguised by some short term fixes last season. Now we are getting into the painful stuff and yet we're still just about in reach of UCL places and an FA cup. Several players are showing real class under his coaching, like Mainoo, Dalot, Onana, Garnacho. It's been decades since we've seen players get better in the first team. We're not where we want to be but I'll take it for now.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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I want Ten Hag gone, but these players are truly a disgrace to the shirt, how they're not being booed for every touch they take is a mystery, it'd surprise me if they managed to get worse if they get booed.

Bunch of cnuts.
It really isn't that much of a mystery. Most matchgoing fans supporting any club in the country do not attend games with the intention of booing every touch of their own team. It's counterintuitive. Flags and banners such as 'play like you mean it' are a less toxic way of getting the message across to the players.
 

mu4c_20le

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See this is where we disagree. I have no fanboy attachment to ETH and I see he's going wrong in all kinds of ways. Only an idiot could not see how bad we sometimes are.

Booting ETH to me it feels like demanding a new steering wheel when you have a flat tire and broken suspension. Yes the steering wheel might be broken too but you can't know that till you've fixed the other problems.
So you can see the steering wheel is broken, but you still need to look under the hood and change the tires just to be sure. Any other manager in the history of this sport been giving so much benefit of the doubt?

I see a manager saying and trying to do the right things and failing.
Same can be said for De Zerbi, and even Ange to a certain degree. We all see what they are trying to do, and they actually succeeded at times, far better than Ten Hag ball. Shouldn't we give them a chance instead under the new structure? What has eTH done that he has so much credit in the bank for you?
 

AndySmith1990

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See this is where we disagree. I have no fanboy attachment to ETH and I see he's going wrong in all kinds of ways. Only an idiot could not see how bad we sometimes are. Other times we are quite impressive. Other times young players blow everyone away. That's how it is with young players. We need to build around young players because we can't do much else.

Booting ETH to me it feels like demanding a new steering wheel when you have a flat tire and broken suspension. Yes the steering wheel might be broken too but you can't know that till you've fixed the other problems. I see a manager saying and trying to do the right things and failing. That's a step up from managers not even trying to do that, which is what we've had since SAF. Remember Ole allowing Ronaldo's purchase because he felt he did not have the authority to say no? Remember the actual fanboys wetting themselves over it? And then remember ETH dropping him and then easing him out so he could get to the style of football he wanted. That's a guy I'm willing to back. Not forever but at least till the end of this year.

That said I don't think he will survive the summer if the Brentford performance happens again. He may not anyway. He's hanging by his fingernails.
If we were talking about an employee in a junior position then I'd say fair enough, they're trying their best and failing, but that's part of the process and it's unfair to be critical.

But we're talking about the manager of Manchester United. He earns millions to deliver results. He's failing. You said it yourself. If I could at least see some progress but we were lacking quality in certain positions I'd be sympathetic and patient. Like when Liverpool were rampant with their high energy attacking style when Klopp took charge, but they were weak in defense and leaking goals. You could see they were on the right path but needed better defenders and a keeper. VVD and Allison then transformed them. There's nothing of the sort going on at United though. Regardless of who plays, regardless of who we sign, regardless of who we're playing, we consistently play terrible football. At times it looks like we need to overhaul the entire team, a far cry from needing to strengthen a few obvious weak areas. The whole system looks broken and ready to rip up and start again. That's completely unacceptable after almost 2 seasons in the job and with massive financial backing.

At the end if the day I just say it as I see it. He's not good enough and we can and should do better. There's literally no reason not to at least try to improve on him.
 

glazed

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So you can see the steering wheel is broken, but you still need to look under the hood and change the tires just to be sure. Any other manager in the history of this sport been giving so much benefit of the doubt?
At the end if the day I just say it as I see it. He's not good enough and we can and should do better. There's literally no reason not to at least try to improve on him.
I guess because this...

https://www.the-sun.com/sport/footb...413/arsenal-fans-block-arteta-car-leave-club/

We will be shite right up till the point we come good. Starting again with another manager just sends us down the snake to the start square again. The alternative is a new manager every two years till we look like Chelsea.
 

yumtum

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It really isn't that much of a mystery. Most matchgoing fans supporting any club in the country do not attend games with the intention of booing every touch of their own team. It's counterintuitive. Flags and banners such as 'play like you mean it' are a less toxic way of getting the message across to the players.
Didn't say go with the intention of doing so, and this is what confuses me - counterintuitive? As in, you think the players can get even worse if they were booed? Then they should be chased out of the club with pitchforks as far as I'm concerned.

The players are toxic, and have been that way for a decade because they keep getting free rides from the fans, and the club.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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Didn't say go with the intention of doing so, and this is what confuses me - counterintuitive? As in, you think the players can get even worse if they were booed? Then they should be chased out of the club with pitchforks as far as I'm concerned.

The players are toxic, and have been that way for a decade because they keep getting free rides from the fans, and the club.
Booing every touch of your own players goes against the instinct of most matchgoing fans. Sure - booing sometimes occurs after a goal goes in or after the full time whistle. But every single touch of the ball? I'd rather sing chants about Roy Keane and Eric Cantona, thanks. Also, booing every touch of your own players whilst not booing a touch of the opposition players would come across as very weird. Way to cultivate a fortress at home.

"Chased out of the club with pitchforks" :lol: like Everton fans did with Anthony Gordon. That worked out well for them didn't it?
 

yumtum

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Booing every touch of your own players goes against the instinct of most matchgoing fans. Sure - booing sometimes occurs after a goal goes in or after the full time whistle. But every single touch of the ball? I'd rather sing chants about Roy Keane and Eric Cantona, thanks. Also, booing every touch of your own players whilst not booing a touch of the opposition players would come across as very weird. Way to cultivate a fortress at home.

"Chased out of the club with pitchforks" :lol: like Everton fans did with Anthony Gordon. That worked out well for them didn't it?
That's exactly what it's come to hasn't it? At what point to fans stop clapping players who don't give a single f*ck?

A fortress at home has gone out of the window a decade ago, cheering on players who are incapable of running clearly isn't, and hasn't worked for a long while.

I'm not saying every person I'm the stadium should be, I'm just surprised that they haven't started to boo yet.

What's Gordon or Everton jave to do with that I said?
 

Doracle

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There's a lot of truth in this. If he had prime Casemiro and not leggy old man Casemiro it might have worked.

It was evident from day 1 this season he would have to compromise on midfield openness or else revert back to counter attacking, both of which he has done on occasion. But then he has Amrabat, Erikson and McT as alternates, none of whom are good enough to play this way. Rice was available and we didn't buy him. Further back, Varane, Lindelof and Maguire are not good options either for anything but a low defensive block. Bottom line is we are in an ugly, slow, painful transition period that was well disguised by some short term fixes last season. Now we are getting into the painful stuff and yet we're still just about in reach of UCL places and an FA cup. Several players are showing real class under his coaching, like Mainoo, Dalot, Onana, Garnacho. It's been decades since we've seen players get better in the first team. We're not where we want to be but I'll take it for now.
That’s a very limited list. Onana isn’t better than he was before signing and two of the other players are exceptional youngsters who would be expected to develop under any manager (if anything Garnacho is showing signs that he’s had to play too much because Ten Hag has lost faith in his own RW signing and refuses to play Amad except in extremis).

The reality is that most of our players look confused and tired (despite having only one match per week in 2024). Players like Casemiro, Bruno and Varane look pale shadows of the players they were even last season. It’s been the worst season we’ve had in a decade of underwhelming efforts and, except the Liverpool match and Mainoo, there’s nothing positive to take from it currently.

I’m my view, it’s not the players at fault here. We have a good enough squad to be top 4, even if I don’t think that they are good enough to challenge for the title collectively. We should not be consistently looking like we have no clue how to stop teams creating chances at will time and time again whilst, amazingly, we still seem to have our attackers totally isolated. That’s all on the manager. He has the rest of the season to show he can put this right, as we clearly aren’t going to sack him now, but it would require an incredible improvement to justify any decision to keep him.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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I'm not saying every person I'm the stadium should be, I'm just surprised that they haven't started to boo yet.
And I'm saying it's not remotely surprising that some fans haven't started booing every touch from their own players, as you'd get laughed at by most people around you for such abnormal behaviour.

What's Gordon or Everton jave to do with that I said?
A few days after his own fans angrily chased him out of the stadium, he forced a move out of the club. I'm sure if you asked those Everton fans if they regret doing that, most of them would say 'yes' as they probably would've gotten a bigger fee for him had they waited a little longer to sell him.
 

Red00012

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That's exactly what it's come to hasn't it? At what point to fans stop clapping players who don't give a single f*ck?

A fortress at home has gone out of the window a decade ago, cheering on players who are incapable of running clearly isn't, and hasn't worked for a long while.

I'm not saying every person I'm the stadium should be, I'm just surprised that they haven't started to boo yet.

What's Gordon or Everton jave to do with that I said?
Try going to OT and doing that. See how you get on and how stupid you’ll look.
 

Lentwood

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I said straightaway that that was the worst performance I think I had ever seen from a United team...and believe me, I don't say that lightly as I have seen some absolute dross in my time.

I think a few things standout for me-.

- The ease at which a very poor and limited side cut through us at will with one or two passes.

- The fact that we barely created a chance to create a chance, let alone an actual chance! We simply couldn't string two passes together and there was absolutely no cohesion or plan going forward.

- The fact that that we seemed to lose every single 50:50, aerial dual etc...absolutely pitiful effort and desire.

- Our rest defence was shocking, at one point a hopeful clearance from a Brentford defender bypassed our entire midfield and started a two vs two counter attack. Its simply unacceptable, its like watching Sunday League football.
 

yumtum

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And I'm saying it's not remotely surprising that some fans haven't started booing every touch from their own players, as you'd get laughed at by most people around you for such abnormal behaviour.


A few days after his own fans angrily chased him out of the stadium, he forced a move out of the club. I'm sure if you asked those Everton fans if they regret doing that, most of them would say 'yes' as they probably would've gotten a bigger fee for him had they waited a little longer to sell him.
And I'm saying it shouldn't be seem as abnormal for booing dross, look at the likes of Madrid who booed Ronaldo etc, we've accumulated a bunch if precious petals who can't handle adversity.

I don't think any fan would be sad to see any of our 'stars' leave, and I think the biggest fa tor in us getting tiny fees for our players are their abject performances, nothing else.

@Red00012 yeah, been to home games and away games, unfortunately since the cost of living has increased so much I can't justify the cost of being able to watch many games on TV, let alone paying a fortune to watch the crap they serve up live.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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And I'm saying it shouldn't be seem as abnormal for booing dross, look at the likes of Madrid who booed Ronaldo etc, we've accumulated a bunch if precious petals who can't handle adversity.

I don't think any fan would be sad to see any of our 'stars' leave, and I think the biggest fa tor in us getting tiny fees for our players are their abject performances, nothing else.

@Red00012 yeah, been to home games and away games, unfortunately since the cost of living has increased so much I can't justify the cost of being able to watch many games on TV, let alone paying a fortune to watch the crap they serve up live.
I'd rather we didn't aspire to be like those ungrateful hanky waving cnuts. Fan behaviour like that is why Bale ended up being photographed with a sign reading 'Wales, Golf, Madrid: in that order'.
 

yumtum

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I'd rather we didn't aspire to be like those ungrateful hanky waving cnuts. Fan behaviour like that is why Bale ended up being photographed with a sign reading 'Wales, Golf, Madrid: in that order'.
I agree to an extent, booing players that have shown their quality and willing for the badge isn't what I'd want (it's why I didn't like it when Nani about a decade ago).

But, these current players? Nowhere near the level of Bale, Ronaldo etc and should rightly be condemned, obviously I was a little hyperbolic "with every touch" - but how they're not booed at all still surprises me.
 

londonredmaniac

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Shit on a stick football and dominated by yet another relegation threatened club.

Even with our issues, it's pathetic. Our midfield is just absolutely walked through week in and week out.
 

londonredmaniac

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I'd say this is business as usual this season. It's hard to understand really because it came after a great performance against Liverpool, but I suppose we're where we deserve really. In fact I'm surprised we're 6th.
I think that's vastly being exaggerated tbh. It wasn't a great performance against Liverpool to my mind.

Great start, let Liverpool back in and we were bloody awful second half until we equalised. Liverpool should have been home and dry. The fact they weren't was nothing to do with our application and all to do with their woeful finishing.

Much better in extra time. But we were missing for a good 50 minutes in that game.
 

glazed

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That’s a very limited list. Onana isn’t better than he was before signing and two of the other players are exceptional youngsters who would be expected to develop under any manager (if anything Garnacho is showing signs that he’s had to play too much because Ten Hag has lost faith in his own RW signing and refuses to play Amad except in extremis).
You're effectively saying he gets no credit for anything good but everything bad is his fault.

And you have a point. These standards are low and unacceptable. I don't want to give up two hours of my time at the weekend to watch dross. I can't imagine how much worse it would be if I were actually paying for it. If it carries on like this then yes he should be sacked. He is getting to the end of the season irrespective but I would like to give him till Christmas. We're not that far apart in our thinking.

What I'm saying is that there are reasons for all this and those reasons will still be there after he is sacked so give him and INEOS time and the backing to fix it. Backing is more than money. It's time, it's a working infrastructure and a functional culture. Our expectations during this transition period are way too high, partly because we did too well last season. We know INEOS has a top priority of fixing the club structure so let them do it and see where we are then.
 

Big Ben Foster

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I'd rather we didn't aspire to be like those ungrateful hanky waving cnuts. Fan behaviour like that is why Bale ended up being photographed with a sign reading 'Wales, Golf, Madrid: in that order'.
Their unrelenting standards are the reason they have 14 Champions League titles, twice as many as the next most successful club.
 

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Freddie got fingered
With united being green, sat at a keyboard in a scuba suit, with strings on his fingers, and sausages and bacon attached to those strings, on a pulley system, hitting the keyboard, and singing " daddy would you like some sausages, daddy would like some sausages" :lol: I hope your visualising this scene after reading this text.
 

izak

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Mar 17, 2016
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Glory Glory Red Devils
It's was a disgrace to watch us play like that and it's not the first time, it's happen so many time over the course of the season, I can't explain were the problem is but i know something has to be fixed for us to be able to challenge in the future.
 

Gabriel Djemba-Bebe

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Their unrelenting standards are the reason they have 14 Champions League titles, twice as many as the next most successful club.
Somehow I doubt the reason why they won 5 consecutive Champions Leagues in the 1950s was because their players were worried about getting booed by their own fans.

Also, their hanky waving did nothing to help their team of Galacticos win anything from 2003-2006.
 

Big Ben Foster

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
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Also support Vasco da Gama
Somehow I doubt the reason why they won 5 consecutive Champions Leagues in the 1950s was because their players were worried about getting booed by their own fans.

Also, their hanky waving did nothing to help their team of Galacticos win anything from 2003-2006.
Okay, remove those 5 titles and they're still far and away the most successful team in football.
 

Big Ben Foster

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
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Also support Vasco da Gama
Their fans being very quick to boo their own players has very little to do with that. Their ambition to succeed comes from the structure above.
I didn't say it was the fans booing. I said it was due to unrelentingly high standards, which exist at all levels of the organization, from the leadership down to the fans.
 

soapythecat

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Glasgow resident these days.
As bad as it was, I bet the same starters that are fit tomorrow will start. Nothing ever changes with ETH and it’s frustrating. He doesn’t know how to grind a result out. The games we could consider grinding out results come from facing 20-30 shots - it’s more luck than fortune we don’t score.
I don’t see any metric in football that suggests he should manage United.
 

bosnian_red

Worst scout to ever exist
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As bad as it was, I bet the same starters that are fit tomorrow will start. Nothing ever changes with ETH and it’s frustrating. He doesn’t know how to grind a result out. The games we could consider grinding out results come from facing 20-30 shots - it’s more luck than fortune we don’t score.
I don’t see any metric in football that suggests he should manage United.
Our issues are less about the personnel selected and more about the way he asks them to play
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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17,090
I didn't say it was the fans booing. I said it was due to unrelentingly high standards, which exist at all levels of the organization, from the leadership down to the fans.
Pretty much.

We have an extremely lenient fanbase coupled with a very lenient ownership and a lenient board. It was always a recipe for disaster.
 

Gandalf Greyhame

If in doubt, follow your nose!
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Red Card for Casemiro!
I ended up on a YT highlights video, and couldn't stop till Mount's goal, at which point I'd re-triggered my embarrassment from the game.

Holy shit we were bad. Really bad.
 

68cob

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Apr 24, 2022
Messages
659
I think I just laughed when we scored, then laughed again when they scored. Couldn't really react any other way.
Me too.
What I can't believe is the number of pundits etc that repeat "you just don't expect this from United" almost every other week. This game might have been really bad, but really, they've been horrible to watch for too many seasons now.
 

sugar_kane

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Jun 6, 2013
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3,484
As bad as it was, I bet the same starters that are fit tomorrow will start. Nothing ever changes with ETH and it’s frustrating. He doesn’t know how to grind a result out. The games we could consider grinding out results come from facing 20-30 shots - it’s more luck than fortune we don’t score.
I don’t see any metric in football that suggests he should manage United.
To be fair it's hardly like he has many players to choose from at the moment.

I'd like to see Diallo get decent game time after his Liverpool performance but wouldn't advocate throwing him straight in there. Is Mount ready to start either? I can already picture the meltdown when he gets re-injured for being rushed back.

Casemiro is just as much of a liability as McTominay these days, Antony is shocking. Who else is there to choose from, Forson?
 

Ayoba

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Feb 2, 2021
Messages
8,459
I said straightaway that that was the worst performance I think I had ever seen from a United team...and believe me, I don't say that lightly as I have seen some absolute dross in my time.

I think a few things standout for me-.

- The ease at which a very poor and limited side cut through us at will with one or two passes.

- The fact that we barely created a chance to create a chance, let alone an actual chance! We simply couldn't string two passes together and there was absolutely no cohesion or plan going forward.

- The fact that that we seemed to lose every single 50:50, aerial dual etc...absolutely pitiful effort and desire.

- Our rest defence was shocking, at one point a hopeful clearance from a Brentford defender bypassed our entire midfield and started a two vs two counter attack. Its simply unacceptable, its like watching Sunday League football.
This is what drove me over the edge. We couldnt keep hold of the ball for more than 10 seconds and it seemed our only tactic was to hoof it long to Hojlund. If that's what we're reduced to, i'd rather have big sam here. Atleast he can implement hoof ball properly.