The right are awful people, the left are awful politicians, and the centre are just generally awful. What do you do
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
That only works if they're allowed to discuss something.
Even the backbenchers are quiet on almost every issue these days. You get the impression they're only vocal when they want to stick the boot in or self-publicise.
succinctly put
Turns out you need unity in Labour because the media will always turn on a Labour leader. Brown, Milliband, Corbyn now Starmer. Who is not doing himself any favours with his own party or the media.
If only those shouting "anyone but Corbyn" had used a little foresight, or even hindsight, and realised the smears from the right wing media towards any Labour leader are inevitable.
If only those shouting "anyone but Corbyn" had used a little foresight, or even hindsight, and realised the smears from the right wing media towards any Labour leader are inevitable.
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Oh my god.
What a feckin fanny he is.
For goodness sake Kier, you’re the opposition, start acting like it.
So Labour policy now is to support the government in whatever it does?
Labour Centrists have run out of ideas. Clinging on to the Tories coat tails, hoping that people will see you as a more competent version of Boris is not opposing.
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Starmer seems to be paralysed by the fear of what the "public" might think, rather than actually judging the current government on its actions. A fantastic strategy that means the public thinks what it always thinks (a 4% poll lead for the conservatives), while he alienates his own party and the only thing the Tories have to fear is a potentially uncomfortable PMQs.
Wasn't a fan of Corbyn the politician but Starmer the politician is turning into a void of nothing. It's a fecking shit show.
Wasn't a fan of Corbyn the politician but Starmer the politician is turning into a void of nothing. It's a fecking shit show.
Definitely. He is in danger of becoming totally invisible.
As I have mentioned, he really needs to allow others who are far more up front to project Labour policies in a way that will enthuse the public. Raynor and Nandy for a start.
It's unbelievable how fecking shit he is.
You'd think a QC would have something about them, but no.
You'd think a QC would have something about them, but no.
With the Labour Together stuff hanging over his head, he won't be calling for resignations for a while.
Him being further to the right on weed than Biden is fecking hilarious, mind.
I really hope someone in the media asks him if he is in favour of bringing back the death penalty. Just to see if his head ends up landing on the Mars Perseverance.
Him being further to the right on weed than Biden is fecking hilarious, mind.
I really hope someone in the media asks him if he is in favour of bringing back the death penalty. Just to see if his head ends up landing on the Mars Perseverance.
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Got to say, I was a big supporter of Keir's approach, especially in the early days of his leadership, but he really needs to be putting this incompetent government to the sword more often. He is at risk of becoming totally invisible as any form of opposition and worrying way too much about public opinion.
He would fare much better if he started to set out concrete alternatives to government policy and provide the electorate with another credible option. I have faith that he will with time, set out policies that will be palatable to the far left whilst appealing to the vast majority of the British public, but right now, he needs to get his head out of the sand. Especially now the Tories have the success of the vaccine programme to cling on to.
He would fare much better if he started to set out concrete alternatives to government policy and provide the electorate with another credible option. I have faith that he will with time, set out policies that will be palatable to the far left whilst appealing to the vast majority of the British public, but right now, he needs to get his head out of the sand. Especially now the Tories have the success of the vaccine programme to cling on to.
He’s so toss.
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It's like having Bebe leading the line, continually missing open goals. Is he happy to write it off as 'just one of those things'?
Christ. Just so weak it seems. I honestly thought he was ideal after Corbyn but unprecedented times aside this is just awful.
An utter embarrassment, he should resign.
Useless.
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I'm still angry about his weak Hancock response.
Today at pmq's, bumbling Boris had Starmer on toast.
I am afraid he and his team have got Starmer worked out. At the moment, Boris has the upper hand, primarily based on the vaccine programme. He continues to attack Starmer for backing the UK remaining within the EU vaccine procurement process.
Clever as he is, Starmer is continually failing to mount any form of sustained attack on Boris.
Quite honestly I had hoped for better.
I am afraid he and his team have got Starmer worked out. At the moment, Boris has the upper hand, primarily based on the vaccine programme. He continues to attack Starmer for backing the UK remaining within the EU vaccine procurement process.
Clever as he is, Starmer is continually failing to mount any form of sustained attack on Boris.
Quite honestly I had hoped for better.
I actually agree unfortunately, I mean there was almost zero substance to Boris’ rambling but PMQs isn’t about that it’s about putting on the best show possible.
The reason he is failing is because he is not offering an alternative.
No-one cares about PMQs anyway. Even when he did put in some good early performances it barely registered.
It's the least of his problems.
It's the least of his problems.
Well when you put it like that, the left is the best option by far.
Exactly. It might have been you that said it before but nobody cares about PMQs. The general voter doesn’t pay it any attention at all. It’s thinking things like PMQs matter that perfectly illustrates the disconnect between the politically enthused left and the majority of the UK population.
I don’t think economics will decide the next election - the bedroom tax and change to universal credit barely registered from a voter perspective. I don’t think Labour want to be seen by their metropolitan voters occupying the kind of socially conservative positions that will be needed to genuinely bring Joe Bloggs back on board. I think they’re fecked long term basically.
Of course PMQs matters, most people don't watch it but they do catch the highlights and headlines. When Corbyn was fecking up PMQs and the centrists were moaning we at least admitted he was shit at it on here.
There's no substance from Starmer and it's the one place where he can create headlines. He can't lurk for a second year he'll already have an image he can't shake off by then.
There's no substance from Starmer and it's the one place where he can create headlines. He can't lurk for a second year he'll already have an image he can't shake off by then.
I doubt that 'most people' statement, but what I'm surprised about is that I can't find any polling to confirm that hunch. In all honesty, I suspect that even the term 'PMQs' has low recognition; there's a Hansard report from 2014 which suggests that and they surveyed again in 2016 but it seems to have dissappeared.
I think you're right generally though that it does matter. It was part of the reason Corbyn didn't convince centrists and Starmer's ham sandwich and ready salted crisps approach similarly struggles to enthuse people. Even if it is little more than an exercise in evangelising to the already converted and maintaining party discipline it's a worthwhile exercise for that reason alone.
PMQ'S is not the only metric on which Starmer is failing. Far from it. If that was his only problem then he would be fine.
PMQ's matters a bit cause nerds like it and then they write things for papers that normal people skim on their lunchbreak and then say to their colleagues 'Starmer's a bit crap isn't he?'.
I'm not suggesting otherwise; he's bland and insipid. I'm just responding to the point about PMQs.
Even then, I think that's overestimating engagement.
I'm always reminded of this study: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...servative-leader-prime-minister-a7719731.html
When the politically interested were mocking the Tories for how banal and overused that slogan was less than 1/5 people recognised it. It's mad how large the disconnect is, and even when we acknowledge it's mad, I still don't think we all grasp it.
Which is another reason why Starmer's outright refusal to do or say absolutely anything that might make a headline is a particularly daft strategy.
This is what I was saying. His inability to cut through or land meaningful blows goes far beyond a few underwhelming PMQ performances.
I agree it's an opportunity to create headlines, but there are plenty of others.
The majority of people really don't care about politics full stop, let alone if someone cracked a decent one-liner at PMQs that day.
I think Rashford showed you can reach normally disinterested people if you pick the right issue and message well. As did Farage.
I think it's a general conservativeness which comes through in his PMQ questions. He has a background in creating fact based arguments where small mistakes can cost you the case, and I'm not sure he's grasped that it's more important to call Johnson a raggedy, tossle-haired waste of skin than it is to suggest he might not have interpreted paragraph 3 of subsection 2 of clause 47 correctly.
It's been a personality contest for as long as I can remember and Starmer's yet to show he has one.