Labour's current front bench seemed pretty sure the previous Labour Party wouldn't be a few months ago, so I'm not seeing the issue.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
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You keep banging on about one interview about the previous leader who is no longer a Labour MP and yet many people will agree with the words said.
Corbyn’s front bench was awful in my opinion. They didn’t help their cause to get elected.
Are they complaining about 'ideological purity' as well, or is it just the folks who lose interest in it when it gets to their would be Chancellor?
The in-fighting is less now. It's mostly from ex-members who are being widely ignored inside and outside the party. I've not been a Starmer fan but he does seem to have judged the transition from Corbyn well, he seems safely in control of the party at any rate, and I admit I was doubtful he could achieve that.
Nah they just believed Corbyn wasn’t prime minister material and clearly the country thought the same with how they voted in 2019. This then allowed the Tories to ruin the country.
Yeah I agree.
It's been the smoothest Labour conference in years and years it feels like. Probably since 2007.
To be fair the entirety of the media trashed Corbyn. Even the fecking Guardian were after him. He never stood a chance, so it's not as if he got a fair crack at the whip. That's in large part why so member former members feel bitter about how it went down.
I agree his media treatment wasn’t fair but let’s not forget that he didn’t exactly help himself with all his faux pas. Having Abbot and McDonnell as Home Secretary and Chancellor wasn’t exactly appealing either. He had some good policies though.
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Sad but true.
Except that’s not what your doing at all. You’ve got your hand sat in water that’s heading to the boil and because Starmer won’t magically turn the water cold, apply burn cream etc, but will likely turn the temperature down a touch, you’re telling him to feck off and let your hand burn.
Surely step 1 is get these contemptuous Conservatives out, then look to progress beyond Starmer.
I thought the purity charge was about how you have to vote for Labour no matter what, not that you have to believe people you know are lying? So the unpure ideolouge would say that, sure, this new energy company thing either won't happen or it's a scam like a symbolic start-up that won't ever actually do anything, but I'll still vote for Starmer because words and actions don't matter.
If the unpure ideolouge have to willingly deceive themselves into being shocked and surprised when pledge upon pledge is broken by people who don't hide that they're lying, then we're not talking about any sort of pragmatism. That's delusion.
So then we’ll have another 5yrs of Truss and the Tories, so enjoy.
I’d take someone who’s five steps to the left of these fecks, even if he lies about being ten steps to the left. It’s still an improvement.
Did you quote the wrong post?
Underwhelming. They should do both. The Tom Cleverley of the Labour Party.
Well if the guy owned by an UnitedHealth shareholder is on board...
It's ideological purity not to wholeheartedly support this, right? @TheGame @Jericholyte2
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We know that. We knew that three days ago when Miliband first announced the idea.
They thought they were clever. They thought that nobody would come back with the evil things that they did to remove the left from the party. I just hope it doesn't leave us with a Tory government when all is said and done.
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It would completely unsurprising if the people who called anyone who wanted to fund the NHS a Stalinist, where also keeping a detailed data base on BAME members.
Do you think this has to do with the fallout over the mayoralty?
Sir Robin Wales, the Head Office choice, was defeated by Rokhsana Fiaz. The MPs in Newham are all loyalist - this looks like some planned move to reverse the 2018 mayor's election through selecting a different candidate. If I was to guess.
isn't that what happens when you purge people? when they complain, they're technically "ex-members". most would want a left wing labour government regardless of who leads it. that is true for most who supported corbyn, perhaps not as true for most who support starmer seeing as many of them felt it impossible to support corbyn not so long ago. getting rid of the tories at any cost really didn't matter back then to these people. clearly, because they actively conspired to lose two elections.
and then stuff like this. any ideas? normal carry on? it's a shame because the country needs a labour government but don't delude yourselves into thinking the split or in-fighting is coming from the corbyn side. it was the starmer side which began the entire process by purging and breaking pledges. what in-fighting there is, is people objecting to those things,
I posted this in the other thread, but it is possibly over the Mayoralty of Newham.
The mainstream Labour mayor was deselected by a vote of 800-500 (and he has gone on to work for a centre-right think tank!).
Whoever became the Labour candidate would walk the election.
The new Mayor, Rokhsana Fiaz, is of Pakistani descent. She defeated Sir Robin Miles, who... isn't.
From Wiki and Private Eye:
Ahead of the 2018 mayoral election, which could have seen Wales secure a fifth four-year term, Private Eye reported that Labour Party members from 20 wards in Newham had voted in November 2016 on whether any Labour candidate other than Wales should be allowed to stand in the election. A total of 424 members voted to allow other candidates to stand against Wales, while 351 voted for Wales being the only candidate allowed to stand. Following this vote, 17 Labour party affiliates such as trade union branches were allowed a vote in the question, with one affiliate's vote counting as equal to all of the members of one ward. Once the party affiliates' votes were added, the result was turned in favour of Wales being the only Labour candidate permitted to stand in the 2018 election. It was reported that some members were disgruntled at this process: for example, one affiliate was a trade union with one member who is a paid advisor to Wales, and that person's vote counted as equal to dozens of members of one ward.
The contest was re-run and Fiaz (backed by Corbyn and Momentum) won.
Loads of supposition here on my part, but it looks like they are removing her voter base with a view of democratically 'deselecting' her.
So the now anti Starmer/moderate crew who were so sure he was dead and buried after the offer to resign, that aged well by the way, are still on here pretending they know what they are talking about.
They were so sure Corbyn would be elected when I said I thought he could never be.
So sure Starmer could never be when I said govts lose elections and he had a chance if he played things smart. ( at least admit you were wrong because he does now have a chance, not certain though)
Now they are so sure he won't do anything worthwhile if elected, they don't even want him elected.
Meanwhile Corbyn can't even sell his soul on RT.
I would say I was pleased by it all if in the meantime their stupidity in electing a guy with no support in the PLP hadn't cost us all the shite the Tories have reigned down on us. Of course they say its everyone else's fault, it always is.
They were so sure Corbyn would be elected when I said I thought he could never be.
So sure Starmer could never be when I said govts lose elections and he had a chance if he played things smart. ( at least admit you were wrong because he does now have a chance, not certain though)
Now they are so sure he won't do anything worthwhile if elected, they don't even want him elected.
Meanwhile Corbyn can't even sell his soul on RT.
I would say I was pleased by it all if in the meantime their stupidity in electing a guy with no support in the PLP hadn't cost us all the shite the Tories have reigned down on us. Of course they say its everyone else's fault, it always is.
the quotes above having to do with the racial profiling of left leaning members centres around this massive scandal where the plp was found to have undermined its own leadership over four years or more. have you missed it? or was there just not enough space in your "needless to say i had the last laugh" monologue?
I didn't quote you but,
Did you miss the point where I said the guy in charge of the Labour party couldn't run the party?
You can give chapter and verse and feel free to knock yourself out about how terrible things where in the Labour party while Corbyn was running it, but how that negates the point he couldn't run the PLP where he had no support and therefore should not have been elected I don't know.
Or is it my fault he couldn't because I said before he was elected he couldn't and I was right about it and now somehow all the crap that event caused is my fault? Rather than the people who knew this and voted for him anyway.
Did you miss the point where I said the guy in charge of the Labour party couldn't run the party?
You can give chapter and verse and feel free to knock yourself out about how terrible things where in the Labour party while Corbyn was running it, but how that negates the point he couldn't run the PLP where he had no support and therefore should not have been elected I don't know.
Or is it my fault he couldn't because I said before he was elected he couldn't and I was right about it and now somehow all the crap that event caused is my fault? Rather than the people who knew this and voted for him anyway.
Have you watched the full Al-Jazeera doc?
I'm not really sure that applies on here does it? I think most on here voted for Corby in 2017 and 2019 and will vote for Starmer in the next election. That likely includes me. If we had a PR system, then I'd be voting for a party to the left of what Starmer represents but we don't.
Not everyone (in fact probably not most on here) see it as an either or in terms of voting for Corbyn/Starmer.
Lots of people, including many being interviewed in the media, are thinking this is reminiscent of 1997 and Blair coming to power but I can't shake the feeling that it's more like Kinnock. Labour hasn't got this in the bag and they need to stop acting like it is. Be triumphant after you win, not before.
What is the belief that they will follow these pledges through based on? It certainly isn’t track record so I’m intrigued.
I'm not sure who you think is deluded, the message is clear, the far left are not wanted in the Labour party. Other parties really are available, but you know, PR, press, give up.
Oooooooh Keeeeiiiirrrr Staaaaarmeerrrr
Well a Lib-Lab coalition wouldn't be the worst outcome. Might even get PR sorted out you never know.
Love posters who invent conversations to proclaim how smart they are
It's also a ridiculous spin to claim Corbyn is at fault for MPs self-sabotaging their own party. Its MPs responsibility to work with their leader in trying to get elected, the MPs on the left understand this and took the decision to support Starmer despite everything. Corbyn never purged or rigged the system like we're seeing but perhaps you think he should have?
Absolutely no one thought the Tories couldn't lose an election. The issue is still the same can Starmer win without Scotland and without those on the left he's pushed away? That's still up in the air because Labour need slightly higher polling to be confident of a win.
Oh you would know far more than me. I have no idea on this type of stuff tbh.
Watched the most of the first episode, it’s all pretty grim and depressing. So I’ve gone back to seeing some clips.
Heard this before. Getting his excuses in early why these pledges will not materialize.
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Sounds it. Much as I find Starmer frustrating and a bit clueless, anything that make people continue to vote Tory is unwelcome.
I didn't realise it was a series, thought it was just a one-off doc. Sounds like it could run then, but presumably they frontload most of the biggest revelations to build interest.
There is that, but if Labour do get it they're going to have to make some hugely unpopular decisions. Given the country's finances, and the higher cost of servicing debt now, if you want to pump loads into the NHS and social care to try and fix it, invest more in education and policing, then you're going to need to do more than just reverse the 45% higher rate tax and corporation tax cuts.