The man’s a walking caricature of himself.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
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Praising Thatcher and saying Tories have not gone far enough on immigration. Soul destroying.
What a cnut.
feck him and feck Labour.
I hope the rest of you don't actually vote for Labour this time next year. Only question i have is whether i vote for some independent or spoil my ballot.
Yeah I am not sure I can vote Labour now…
Another section of that article:
Elsewhere in the article, Starmer criticised the government’s handling of Brexit, arguing it had wasted economic opportunities made possible by the split from the EU.
“They have squandered economic opportunities and failed to realise the possibilities of Brexit. They will bequeath public finances more akin to a minefield than a solid foundation,” he wrote.
What a tosser.
Elsewhere in the article, Starmer criticised the government’s handling of Brexit, arguing it had wasted economic opportunities made possible by the split from the EU.
“They have squandered economic opportunities and failed to realise the possibilities of Brexit. They will bequeath public finances more akin to a minefield than a solid foundation,” he wrote.
What a tosser.
Alright, that's settled it. I'm not voting for Angela Rayner next time. Let's hope we have a decent alternative candidate here.
The disastrous effect of seeing Julia Hartley-Brewer midway through a come-up at WHP cannot be overstated.
Keir's flirting with the centre-right is disappointing, but that's politics. He has to tread a careful line, especially with the dominant right wing media waiting for any opportunity to tear him apart (as they did with with Corbyn, Miliband, Brown, etc). They have to be pragmatic.
Reading some posters suggest that they won't vote Labour reminds me of the boy on the bicycle meme thrusting a stick into his spokes, falling off then having the audacity to blame others. We simply cannot risk another Tory government. Labour is its own worst enemy sometimes. As self destructive as the Tories have been over the last few years, at least when it comes to election time they temporarily stop stabbing each other in the back and rally behind the banner.
Labour HQ (not necessarily the rest of the party and its members) have an obvious strategy with Keir's courting of the centre-right: they hope that the conservatives are gullible enough to believe what he says and that the left are clever enough to see through it. Sadly, I don't think it's very effective, but i'll stomach it.
Reading some posters suggest that they won't vote Labour reminds me of the boy on the bicycle meme thrusting a stick into his spokes, falling off then having the audacity to blame others. We simply cannot risk another Tory government. Labour is its own worst enemy sometimes. As self destructive as the Tories have been over the last few years, at least when it comes to election time they temporarily stop stabbing each other in the back and rally behind the banner.
Labour HQ (not necessarily the rest of the party and its members) have an obvious strategy with Keir's courting of the centre-right: they hope that the conservatives are gullible enough to believe what he says and that the left are clever enough to see through it. Sadly, I don't think it's very effective, but i'll stomach it.
Even if this was true(It’s really not)I find it a very weird type of politics. You pretty much endorsing a politician lying to millions of people in order to trick them and win their votes.
This is good because ?
It isn't good, it breaks trust and confidence. But it's a highly successful strategy that the Tories have been employing for years now (see Brexit, immigration, etc). The art of suggestion.
Of course it is spectacularly backfiring for the Tories right now as they're unable to control/influence these things, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Labour are adopting a similar (albeit watered down and less overt) strategy to try woo discontented Tory voters. Unless you're suggesting that Keir and Labour HQ have about-faced and changed their decades old positions. A criticism I keep seeing (pushed increasinlgy by the right, funnily enough. You wouldn't see them running his narrative when Boris was in power) is that the two parties are now indistinguishable. I think that's a lazy characterisation.
It's strategy. Unpalatable as it may be.
This guy used to be alright, but he basically just reads the press release these days. He supports a team, he doesn't care how that team play.
You easily triggered lot should try RTFA. The relevant section:
"Every moment of meaningful change in modern British politics begins with the realisation that politics must act in service of the British people, rather than dictating to them. Margaret Thatcher sought to drag Britain out of its stupor by setting loose our natural entrepreneurialism. Tony Blair reimagined a stale, outdated Labour Party into one that could seize the optimism of the late 90s. A century ago, Clement Attlee wrote that Labour must be a party of duty and patriotism, not abstract theory. To build a “New Jerusalem” meant first casting off the mind-forged manacles. That lesson is as true today as it was then."
"Every moment of meaningful change in modern British politics begins with the realisation that politics must act in service of the British people, rather than dictating to them. Margaret Thatcher sought to drag Britain out of its stupor by setting loose our natural entrepreneurialism. Tony Blair reimagined a stale, outdated Labour Party into one that could seize the optimism of the late 90s. A century ago, Clement Attlee wrote that Labour must be a party of duty and patriotism, not abstract theory. To build a “New Jerusalem” meant first casting off the mind-forged manacles. That lesson is as true today as it was then."
Did we just timewarp back to 2016?
Yeah I'll still to my dogma instead of heralding Thatcher and Blair with anything other than celebration upon their death.
All told he's just relaying a bunch of meaningless aspirations chucked together to sound cool: 'let loose our natural entrepreneurialism' , 'seize the optimism of the late 90's', 'be a party of duty and patriotism', 'build a new Jerusalem'. For better or worse all these people he references made an effort to enact meaningful change for the country. As far as I can see Starmer's not proposing that. He's rather vacuously trying to cast himself as the worthy heir of past visionaries while in reality merely proposing a change of driver in the marriage hearse.
You're using the phrase 'easily triggered' about people such as myself who have watched the Labour Party under it's current leadership abandon every policy and value that won them my vote in the past, without telling me why I should continue to give them my vote when they offer no quantifiable improvement whatsoever on the current government besides not actually being the current government.
Probably but that's not what got everyone all wound up is it. The number of headlines that used the word "praise" for the sort of trite nodding to previous PMs that all PMs in waiting do, and the number of people here who fell for it.
Straightforward prediction - after Labour wins, and starts doing what will turn out to be fairly popular things, this thread will be full of people with the usual incredibly unrepresentative and niche views moaning about it.
What you see everywhere from Starmer's fans is that if you don't think Starmer is much good you must be a raving lefty.
No, he's just such an awful politician. A three legged donkey with a red rosette would 'walk' a GE. Starmer could still blow it. And if he gets in, his five missions are ridiculous.
What an opportunity missed by the UK.
No, he's just such an awful politician. A three legged donkey with a red rosette would 'walk' a GE. Starmer could still blow it. And if he gets in, his five missions are ridiculous.
What an opportunity missed by the UK.
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Yeah, the approach Labour are taking is so misguided they could still blow it.
It's shamelessly cynical, which I don't mind. They've obviously reviewed masses of data and in Starmer they have an empty vessel to recite whatever sentiment they think will be most popular. They're working on the basis that in previous elections they lost because they were too left wing in the eyes of the electorate. I'm sure they have great data to prove that. But they're ignoring that sentiment towards the Tories is at an all time low, years of cuts to public services, and a cost of living crisis. Their strategy is out of date. It might have won an earlier election, but now is the time for them to attack, be unashamedly socialist. Sure, be tactical on which issues you go all out on.
The worrying this is that even if Starmer wins, the data will then suggest they won because of that strategy, when in reality they will have won despite it. So they'll keep going forwards with it. I just hope that when in power they will change gears.
The last election was an anomaly. It was a Brexit referendum done under FPTP and enough Labour Brexit voters lent their votes to the only party promising to deliver it unconditionally.
That's not on offer anymore. Next election was always going to see a swing back the other way. No matter what the data says, if Labour wins, they will claim the move to the right has been vindicated, and use that as the new baseline. Centre ground shifts rightwards. Tories move further right, Labour a bit further with them. Centre ground moves further. Same old story.
If there is anyone close to the front bench that has any vision, then you'd hope they don't just pat themselves on the back and carry on business as usual and actually do something positive. Not sure there is anyone there that can see beyond padding out their own CV though unfortunately.
We need PR and we need it now. Labour and the Tories don't need it though...
I will not be voting at the next GE. And I wouldn’t even say I am left of the party.
Does your vote even count if you do?
Sigh, Labour are going to win and people still want to throw it all away.
Labour are ahead because the Tories are bad, sure. But Labour are SO FAR ahead because people are ready to trust Labour with power again.
Labour have remembered the fundamental lesson of Blair, which is that you have to switch Tory voters to Labour to win. Going full blood socialist is how you lose.
Around 25% on who does the public trust with the economy -
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...rty-would-be-the-best-at-handling-the-economy
Starmer personally rating - 35% well 46% bad
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/keir-starmer-approval-rating
It’s mostly the tories fecking up. Tbh it doesn’t matter what Starmer says as no one is really listening.
The more concerning thing is his policies won’t at all address or fix the issues millions of people are having to deal with.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...rty-would-be-the-best-at-handling-the-economy
Starmer personally rating - 35% well 46% bad
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/keir-starmer-approval-rating
It’s mostly the tories fecking up. Tbh it doesn’t matter what Starmer says as no one is really listening.
The more concerning thing is his policies won’t at all address or fix the issues millions of people are having to deal with.
The problem is the "raging lefties" shot their credibility as electoral sages with Corbyn.
None of them has really absorbed what it was that caused their programme to be rejected, which is the nature of ideologues.
So of course it is much easier to jab at Starmer, who isn't an ideologue, who has weaknesses but some strengths, yet who is winning where they couldn't. That must be absolutely maddening for people who believe in the absolute rightness of their position.
So no, Starmer isn't brilliant but it doesn't matter what the raging lefties think. They had their chance and blew it.
But putting left, right, centre aside, Starmer is probably winning the next GE, not because of him or his policies , only because the public probably believe that he can't possibly be as bad as the incompetence and ineptitude of the current government.
Because they are so inept it was a chance for Labour to select a strong leader with some charisma, intelligence and purpose for the good of the country. A reset.
Watching from the outside I don't see that he's going to do very much.
He seems scared of his own shadow and seems so naïve.
His understanding of Brexit and its consequences seem negligible despite what he was under Corbyn.
If he is elected I don't see him lasting the full term. I'll go for max 3 years before a vote of no confidence.
Yes and no.
Blair and New Labour had a positive, forward thinking ideology and pledged - clearly, loudly and repeatedly to invest sensibly in public services: welfare, eduction, health care etc, and stressing the benefits of doing so. Sure they embraced the markets and toned down the socialist rhetoric, but they were still left wing both in practise and rhetoric, albeit more to the centre left. Brown in particular was very ideological. They demonstrated to the electorate that they were capable and reliable, but the messaging was still largely one of positivity, progress, change.
In contrast the current Labour strategy is a pale and cynical imitation without any of the positivity. It's rhetoric is cautious, negative and transparently desperate to avoid saying anything remotely progressive, or frankly anything non-conservative.
I work in health care, my partner works in the civil service, and it's terrifying that the Labour leader can't even give clear support for either. Rather he talks in a guarded, cynical tone. I, my colleagues, and others in health care and the civil service are not hard core communists, we're just people who want to have careers providing a skilled public service to the best of our abilities, with the minimal expectation of a reasonable standard of living, reasonable working conditions and adequate funding for our workplaces. I want regular people in my community to have a standard of living that is comparable to other European countries. I want the sick, disabled and out of luck to have a humane safety net and opportunites to progress. I want my schools, hospitals, transport and other government departments to be well staffed and equipped. I want the ever increasing gap between the rich and poor to be at least halted, if not reversed. Yet the leader of the fecking Labour Party is too scared to advocate confidently for any of this. These aren't radical beliefs, these are common sense practical beliefs, that a competent Labour leader should be able to advocate for in a convincing manner. Not mutter in hushed tones about public sector workers, the unemployed, the sick, or people on low incomes as though they don't want to be associated with them.
The problem for Labour the past few elections wasn't beliefs/policies, it was that the messaging was weak and the leaders polarising. Sure, Starmer is less polarising. Everyone agrees he's a charmless husk, a careerirst with no strong beliefs, doing a tame impersonation of some sort of Blair-Cameron hybrid. But he doesn't have the positivity of Blair (and certainly not the economic skill of Brown), nor does he have the intelligence or business acumen/networking of Cameron/Osborne. He's taking the worst of each rather than the best of either.
The strategy is simply a decade late. Miliband or even Corbyn would have benefited from embracing parts of this strategy, to varying extents. They might even have won if they had done so. But there has been seismic change since then. The cost of living crisis, inflation, people are struggling. Even the more centrist or right leaning folk I know are fed up with the Tories and want something different. They might vote Labour, but not because Starmer is praising Thatcher, downplaying the prospect of investing public services, or trying to out do the Tories on anti-immigration rhetoric. But because the Tories have failed, regular people are getting royally fecked over and our public services have been pushed to breaking point. Labour should walk this election. Miliband or Corbyn would have sailed to victory if they were in Starmer's position. So imagine the landslide if there was a competent, passionate Labour leader. A landslide victory that would pave the way for future election strategies for decades.
Before the first election Blair and Brown committed to Tory spending limits for the first two years of a labour Govt and stuck to them. Brown repeatedly said "only what is affordable is possible". If you look at how Liz Truss fared and understand that we in the UK have been shown exactly what the market can do to a govt if it doesn't believe the proposed spending plans add up, then avoiding that instability is absolutely a prerequisite to doing anything.
Starmer is just saying the same things Blair did and getting shit for it because losing with Corbyn is way purer than getting your hands dirty and governing.
There are tonnes of things you can do in govt that will make a real difference in peoples lives and over the years of a Labour govt the difference would be significant but they will not be a cure all. That is probably never going to happen and is a pipe dream.
I'd sooner vote Labour knowing that, than vote Labour with an unrealistic agenda which courts financial ruin and ends right back in the disaster politics of the last 13 years.
Sure, but with Blair it was always "we will invest in X, and do so responsibly but cutting inefficient spending in Y". Generally with cuts being targeted at administration costs, and investment in front line services and infrastructure.
Starmers Labour its just "we will have to make tough decisions and manage the budget". Obviously I'm paraphrasing
/simplifying massively. But there's none of the optimism or forward thinking that New Labour demonstrated, just "we can be a safe pair of hands". Without even strongly conveying how they prioritise spending or where they would make cuts, just vague, apologetic "we'll try and find a way to manage".
I find Starmer deeply uninspiring but the economic conditions are very different to 1997. Blair inherited a growing economy while Starmer is taking over a wasteland.
Yeah I agree, the Tories have gutted the country.