He deserves it.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
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Yes you were right. I should have clarified. The Gov majority was slim and there were enough dissenting Tory voices (plus Labour support) to ensure Bercow would remain in place.
I suppose it would only have taken a few Tories to support him so it wasn't on. Thanks.
Like your optimism about;
First, 'United international pressure' ... how will this be applied?
Israel has suffered this for years, no effect.
Hamas have only one card left, but they will not release all hostages as they would have nothing to deal with if they did.
Second, 'Sanctions'... against who, by whom?
Will sanctions against Hamas have any effect only to make things worse for those in Gaza?
As long as the USA supports Israel, there is no chance, even the US is now losing its ability to pressurise Israel, especially in a US Presidential Election year. Sanctions against Israel would have to include arms, this is most unlikely.
Similarly if Qatar, and in particular Iran, cannot/will not apply pressure to Hamas then the present situation especially for those in Gaza gets worse by the day
The truth is only Hamas and Israel can end this and since both 'leaderships' seem to wish mutual destruction, its difficult to see even a pause in the fighting being successful, let alone a lasting ceasefire.
However hope I am wrong and you are right.
He was one of the meetings Starmer had at the Munich Security Conference.
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I play Fantasy Football but detest TV programmes on it. 'Wrong thread' you might think, but no, Keir Starmer is on Sky Max Fantasy Football at 9.45 tonight.
Yes - I've seen the clip where he admits speaking to Herzog about it.
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If Starmer/Reeves don’t come out and say Labour will not be cutting public spending and will reverse Hunt’s despicable budget, then they can absolutely get to feck as I will not be voting for them.
They won’t do that of course, and I will vote Green.
They won’t do that of course, and I will vote Green.
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The funny thing there is that he's carrying on like Ice T is some kind of youth icon that he's never heard of but who is super popular with the kids, when Ice T is older than he is.
(Israeli) guns don't kill people rappers do.
Imagine being a teenager and your dads out telling the world it's fine to starve foreign toddlers but you can't read swear words on twitter
feckin Ice-T
I was listening to him when I was a kid.
I was listening to him when I was a kid.
Starmer hasn’t really said any of that about Ice-T. It’s just a leftist shitposter making it up to try and get a reaction from Ice-T… and it worked. Very amusing still.
It will still, somehow be Starmer's fault.
Son, you can not listen to this shit, swear words and bad influence. Just look at me and learn how to enable starving toddlers to death and be proud of Pappa.
The story came from a parody account
https://www.thenational.scot/news/2...-attacks-clown-keir-starmer-parody-story-row/
I thought Ice-T seemed like a wonderfully random choice
I did learn something from the story though - I had no idea that the detective on L&O is Ice-T
https://www.thenational.scot/news/2...-attacks-clown-keir-starmer-parody-story-row/
I thought Ice-T seemed like a wonderfully random choice
I did learn something from the story though - I had no idea that the detective on L&O is Ice-T
I like this concept that some on here have taken up that the leader of the opposition party in an increasingly irrelevant country diplomatically on the global stage is 'enabling starving toddlers to death'.
Its such a strange level of misapprehension about our level of influence in the world.
He is hardly an ineffective figure in British politics, Britain is second most influential ally to Israel after USA. He is also, most probably the next pm in few months. So not insignificant. Yes his support (not only not condemning) the Israeli food / water / medicine siege /blockade is a disgrace on his political CV and humans with some sort of morality will never forget it.
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If this person like what I am doing in politics, I would look back to my work and see where did I feck up.
There's a poster in the Palestine thread that said something very interesting:
Now, I'm not being facetious, and I somewhat agree that geopolitically, the UK is as impotent as its ever been, certainly since I've been born. But having said that, the UK still has a role to play - we have struck Houthi / Iranian proxy targets near the Red Sea, and also MoD has confirmed that the RAF has undertaken reconnaissance missions on behalf of Israel (using our base in Cyprus).
So, holding the leader of the opposition to account, particularly on their abysmal stance on the conflict (and in light of their predecessor's stance) is better than not. The irony is that we're seeing the negative influence Starmer's stance is taking in real time - Rochdale, confidence polls, the debacle in the House of Commons a week or so ago etc. It's all linked and it's all relevant.
Firstly, I did not say that Starmer is an ineffectual figure in UK politics. I said the UK is far more ineffectual in global politics than many seem to want to admit, both drum banging gammons and those driving themselves into a frenzy over a ceasefire vote in Parliament that effectively means feck all.
Secondly, Starmer is ineffectual, at present. The UK is essentially a one party dictatorship during term time, particularly when the majority is this big.
Your last couple of comments are completely accurate and I am in full agreement. His stance, particularly on collective punishment and water etc etc were and are disgraceful. That wasn't what you initially said though, nor what I was arguing with.
France and Macron (ie essentially our mainland twins economically, politically, militarily) have come out and called for an immediate ceasefire. Can you tell me how that's going?
Sunak could come out tomorrow and call for the genocide of Palestinians. He could call for a ceasefire. He could call for the tea bagging of Bibi. None of them are going to move the dial. Now multiply that for the leader who currently holds no power.
The dial is moved by Israel and the USA. The Europeans collectively may be able to influence them if they're united and lucky.
I'm interested in how you think those two posts are contradictory or where I said Starmer should not be held to account?
I understand where you are coming from and your point of view, but as I said, In Britain the influence they have on Israel is not insignificant, whether it is support in the international community, in the security council or putting pressure on the government to halt/stop weapon delivery to Israel. Then there is the fact he is most likely to become the PM in few months. Anyhow, I think his whole take on this war was disgraceful.
I don’t like Starmer but it’s clear as day that Bannon is only saying that to troll the left and stoke divisions.
Probably, though I do not think he is that bright to think 3 steps ahead.
I think you grossly underestimate Steve Bannon, he’s not one of Trump’s thicko satellites. He’s as sharp as he is nasty.
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6 hour interrogation.
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Can you tell me of a couple of times in the last few decades that the UK has influenced Israel's trajectory, in a way that was contrary to the US position?
And what do you mean by stopping arms delivery? Do you mean stopping the UK arms exports to Israel? The approximately £400 million total that the UK has sold in arms to Israel over the past decade (in total, not per year)? Or are you under the misapprehension that the UK could actually influence the USA to stop their arms sales to Israel?
Israel's arms exports industry is barely smaller than the UK, despite having less than 1/6th of the UK's population.
The UK is also not Israel's 2nd closest ally. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. We're not even in the top 5 arms exporters to Israel in the past decade. Or even in the top 2 or 3 of arms exporters to Israel from Europe.
The point is that I know we all want to feel like we have agency and can do something. Sunak can't. Starmer definitely can't, especially in his current role where he can't even influence his own country's policies as leader of the opposition. So to say he is 'enabling' starving toddlers to death or that he or even Sunak have any actual discernible impact on Israeli policy, especiallyn when the USA are doing the opposite, is not really accurate is it?
That doesn't mean that their statements on the war (and those of the wider western world) haven't been awful and disgusting, which is a totally separate matter.
Probably I did not chose the right word. But
Do you want me to change the word so that it sound more eligible?
Starmer provided moral and political international support live on national TV/radio (not material support) for Israel to starve the children of Gaza to death.
Does this sound better?
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A Starmer Vs Ice T rap battle could cement Keir's status as the political king of cool.
I agree the UK alone won't be able to influence Israel, but it's a start, perhaps other countries will also follow resulting in enough collective pressure on Israel. It's not a hopeless cause, it only becomes one when you stop trying.
You can't say one has little / no influence and then mention to another poster that Israelis looking to deliver aid (but being prevented) is an empty gesture.
Again - the UK is militarily aligned with the US and Israel. That's as close to a 2nd ally as one can get. We're the only European country that is carrying out reconnaissance missions for Israel. We're the only European country bombing the Houthis in the Red Sea. Our PM is currently demonising peaceful Palestinian protests, and has designated 'Free Palestine', 'From the river to the sea' and other sayings as antisemitic. Our leader of the opposition, who is leading a traditionally socialist and left leaning party, is coming out with pro-Israeli rhetoric. (Despite continuously being on the wrong side of history, Germany hasn't militarily provided any aid or joint operations with or for Israel). To distil allyship as only on sales exports is inaccurate and a misleading thing to say. Whilst we haven't voted against any UN Security Council resolutions for a ceasefire, we've continuously abstained. The only nation out of 15 to have perpetually abstained from any ceasefire notions. We're not quite as pathetic as the US, but we're not far behind.
As said in my previous post, whilst I agree that geo-politically, the UK is pretty impotent (as much of Europe is), one can't deny that Keir has some influence, and if he had come out with calls for a ceasefire from the off, or not even said Israel is right to withhold water, food and aid, it would have some influence on the situation, no matter how small. That's the point you're missing.
What's the point in this thread? What's the point in any of us offering any opinion on anything, since we aren't affecting any of the issues we talk about? Everyone should just be quiet and let things happen without saying anything. Just keep your heads down and carry on with your meaningless lives.
Could you tell me who's said this in this thread?
Of course I can. Again Macron has called for a ceasefire. In fact, he called for a ceasefire back in November. In terms of European countries, there is no greater equal to the UK. We have similar sized economies. Similar sized militaries. Both maintain military bases abroad. Both maintain nuclear arsenals. Both are in NATO. One even has influence within the EU. I ask again, how is this working out?
Saying something is not an empty gesture is not the same as saying someone has no current influence. They're totally separate things. Those Israeli protestors also have no influence on Netanyahu or the cabinet. But what they're trying to do is still admirable and, as I said, they're trying to do it in an environment far more hostile to what they're trying to do than the one basically all of us are operating in. It seemed wrong to me to be sitting there on a keyboard criticising those who are trying to affect more of a practical change, rather than just smashing them on an almost echo chamber thread. It would regardless be equally nonsensical to say that those protestors have the blood of babies on their hands or that they have the influence to stop Netanyahu.
Influence is not the same as pointlessness. Nor does it excuse holding abhorrent opinions, which seems to be how you've decided to take it.
No, actually its not. The UK has sold 400 million in arms to Israel over the last decade. The UK is not even in the top 2 exporters to Israel militarily within Europe. Germany provides far more arms sales to Israel than we do actually. We're following the USA to the red sea and likely mostly watching as the Americans do all the heavy lifting while we desperately try to maintain the 'special relationship'.
What am I missing? Again, tell me in actual discernible facts. Macron has called for a ceasefire. He called for a ceasefire 5 months ago now I believe. Could you tell me how this has influenced Israel to row back? Now explain to me, when Israel is not listening to the actual leader of the country with the 4th largest nuclear arsenal in the world, why they're going to be listening to the opposition leader of basically the same country across the channel?
And this is nothing to do with the overall atmosphere within the UK about the conflict, which is a totally different question and one where I would imagine our views much more closely align.
Toe the party line, even if it means pretending the party is of complete political insignificance.