[berbatrick]

I mean in last 25 yrs we have bought one proper CM who had a long and integral run in first team and that was Carrick in 2006

Herrera, Pogba, Fred, Casemiro, all played consistently in CM for at least a season after being bought . You can even make the case for Anderson.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Looks a good replacement for Casameiro so far.

 

[SirAF]

So now those stats count? When Maguire was putting in 7's but only getting 3's from the experts on theCaf those stats were rubbish

Don’t look at me!

 

[Adnan]

Indeed. I remember there was a time when only 10s played like this. Now they are everywhere. Players like Zola came to the PL and stood out a mile, and these players generally were the white boots, rolled down socks 10s who played like Thiago did in that video. At the very top level now, you can have up to 7 or 8 players on the pitch with this skillset. It’s something we have resisted for years, instead seemingly preferring some sort of ‘United Way’, and the hiring of an Ajax coach filled me with so much hope that we would finally transition. I must say that thus far, I have been disappointed with what I feel is a lack of emphasis on high technical levels and press resistance across the field, but perhaps it is something he is about to increase as his team continues to take shape.

I think they will target the CB and deeper midfield areas as priority in the next summer window and we have a huge opportunity to really improve on the team by adding to the midfield and CB positions.

 

[Don Juan Matus]

The state of this place... understandable after 10 years of disappointment, but still

One kid has a good game and everyone else sets the bar comparing him to cesc or bellingham? Then after a couple of bad games the same folks will be shouting at him and blaming him for our failures

This is worst than rawk circa 2010

Think he's the real deal myself - The bastard thinks

 

[Alemar]

Herrera, Pogba, Fred, Casemiro, all played consistently in CM for at least a season after being bought . You can even make the case for Anderson.

Anderson would be an automatic starter currently

 

[The Substitute]

Eye-watering stuff yesterday.

After a horrible run of youngsters on my shirts:
- Pogba (when he got promoted from academy)
- Januzaj
- Greenwood
- Traore (then the changed his name the week after)
- Mainoo, and he got injured as I was waiting for the kit to arrive.

I had a huge concern with Mainoo's injury as ETH seems to be very stubborn with his favorite players. I thought this could ruin his chances as the preseason momentum died off.

Now the next mission is for Amad to take that right-wing spot from Antony..

 

[Rozay]

I think they will target the CB and deeper midfield areas as priority in the next summer window and we have a huge opportunity to really improve on the team by adding to the midfield and CB positions.

We could really use some of these abilities in the final third more than anything. We have explosive players generally which is good but I think we lack intricacy in the final third. Martial is the one who has this ability to a high level but his physical deficiencies are too much now to allow him to impose them regularly. But his type of close control, composure and subtlety in the last third is something we need to replace I feel.

 

[mav_9me]

Herrera, Pogba, Fred, Casemiro, all played consistently in CM for at least a season after being bought . You can even make the case for Anderson.

I meant good enough for a top club like United.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Perhaps? If you’d averaged out both their contributions over 90 minutes McTominay would have touched and passed the ball almost exactly half as many times as Mainoo. So stands to reason that our midfield as a unit won’t function when the contributions are so uneven. It also makes the fact that Mainoo looked so competent and assured, despite playing alongside the invisible man, even more impressive.

But it's also why I have a hard time giving anyone in our midfield an 8/10. If we lose the midfield battle nobody deserves a good score...

 

[#07]

Herrera, Pogba, Fred, Casemiro, all played consistently in CM for at least a season after being bought . You can even make the case for Anderson.

I see the point the other poster is trying to make. Yes, we have bought midfield players since we bought Carrick. However, the midfield players we bought often lacked the qualities we required.

We have often bought players who thrive having the least responsibility in a midfield three, then try to shoehorn them into a double pivot. Not just Pogba, Van de Beek and now Mason Mount. Or taken box-to-box players and tried to make them into defensive midfielders e.g., Fred. As much of a trier as he was none of us ever felt happy about seeing Fred come deep to receive the ball from our centre backs. It was obvious, pretty early on, that he couldn't play that role.

I think the issue is that, since Carrick, we haven't had a single player who could be trusted to take the ball from the back four and get us up the pitch. Even Casemiro, who showed his range of passing was far more expansive than a lot of us imagined when he signed, hasn't quite been that.

The excitement around Mainoo is his skillset appears to fill a gap many of us have felt we've had for ages.

He's always been pretty well-rounded, even in the academy. Still think he'll end up an #8 though personally, same with Gore if he breaks through.

I've got a lot of hope for Dan Gore. I don't think he'll be as good as Mainoo but I see him maturing into a pretty solid Premier League standard player. If you've got Mainoo as your starter and Gore to rotate, then you can start building a system that isn't dependent on one man being fit to execute.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

Been burnt too many times with players like this, so happy to be see how things play out for now.

 

[AltiUn]

I've got a lot of hope for Dan Gore. I don't think he'll be as good as Mainoo but I see him maturing into a pretty solid Premier League standard player. If you've got Mainoo as your starter and Gore to rotate, then you can start building a system that isn't dependent on one man being fit to execute.

Personally think Gore has a chance of being the best of the lot, just has that elegance and finesse all the best midfielders have. Probably one of my favourite ever academy players. Will be keeping my eye on his career wherever he ends up.

 

[Lyng]

Being press resistant is a bigger requirement now than it was over 10 years ago in the EPL. And the reason for that is quite simply due to how teams have evolved tactically in England where they've adopted a method which provokes opposition into making mistakes In their defensive third. Building play from the back by circumnavigating the oppositions coordinated pressing structures is an absolute requirement in the game today if the aim is to dominate the ball in possession and out of possession by pressing intelligently to force the opposition into making errors and thus forcing them to turn over possession.

There was a time when the likes of Michels, Cruyff and Sacchi etc were referred to as being ideologues due to their defined method of play. But right now that very same idea has become mainstream and many fans are struggling to understand the change in concept. Hence it seems the managers post Fergie have been building teams from a bygone era whilst the likes of Guardiola and Klopp have adopted the methods of the aforementioned 'ideologues' and developed their teams with the same strategies for the present day.

Not just the midfielders but also the CBs being press resistant along with the GK is also a requirement. The bar has been raised significantly.

Having players who are press resistant is a real requirement or else you will struggle to over come a well coordinated press. The clip below is a good example of what we should be aiming for under a coach like EtH.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Excellent post.
And it's something we have thoroughly missed in our team. Onana is a great example for this as well.

 

[Alemar]

I've got a lot of hope for Dan Gore.

But he doesn’t even get selected for match day squads - even VDB is selected ahead of him

 

[dubplate warrior]

Looks a good replacement for Casameiro so far.

They're different kind of players. Would be a good pairing behind Bruno.

 

[Adnan]

We could really use some of these abilities in the final third more than anything. We have explosive players generally which is good but I think we lack intricacy in the final third. Martial is the one who has this ability to a high level but his physical deficiencies are too much now to allow him to impose them regularly. But his type of close control, composure and subtlety in the last third is something we need to replace I feel.

Agreed. I think most of us were hoping Sancho could be that player for us but he doesn't seem like he's got a future here. Hopefully Amad Diallo can provide some of the craft and guile which he has in his locker once he returns from injury. But I think the domino that needs to drop in the team for us to be a better and more controlled team in the final third is to remove Bruno from the team. And I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon but the template is to have a player in that position who provides the craft and guile in possession along with the ability to dribble at a high level in confined spaces. When we played Bayern it was Musiala who destroyed us centrally, we couldn't deal with his fast directional shifts whilst keeping the ball glued to his feet.

There's a number of players who could be targeted and players like Eze at Crystal Palace, Bilal El Khannouss at Genk or Alexander Wirtz at Leverkusen are players who have the skillset to provide more control in advanced areas instead of the chaos that we see currently.

 

[Rozay]

Agreed. I think most of us were hoping Sancho could be that player for us but he doesn't seem like he's got a future here. Hopefully Amad Diallo can provide some of the craft and guile which he has in his locker once he returns from injury. But I think the domino that needs to drop in the team for us to be a better and more controlled team in the final third is to remove Bruno from the team. And I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon but the template is to have a player in that position who provides the craft and guile in possession along with the ability to dribble at a high level in confined spaces. When we played Bayern it was Musiala who destroyed us centrally, we couldn't deal with his fast directional shifts whilst keeping the ball glued to his feet.

There's a number of players who could be targeted and players like Eze at Crystal Palace, Bilal El Khannouss at Genk or Alexander Wirtz at Leverkusen are players who have the skillset to provide more control in advanced areas instead of the chaos that we see currently.

Well I didn’t want to say it but I’m sure you know that I share the same view as you on that one.

I do wonder if Mitchell and others from France come in if we would target Cherki given Lyon’s current woes.

 

[Adnan]

Well I didn’t want to say it but I’m sure you know that I share the same view as you on that one.

I do wonder if Mitchell and others from France come in if we would target Cherki given Lyon’s current woes.

I haven't seen Cherki play in Lyon first team but from what I remember he was 'that guy' as the attacking mid/#10 at youth level.

 

[Rozay]

I haven't seen Cherki play in Lyon first team but from what I remember he was 'that guy' as the attacking mid/#10 at youth level.

He still has enormous potential I think. I’ve seen him a few times for Lyon, but they are of course a terrible outfit now but you do see his quality. When he puts on the blue French shirt you see it clearly at u20/u21 level recently too, he’s had some great performances this year. Like Gusto, I suspect he’ll be available for a decent fee and is still young and talented enough to be moulded into something special. A potential long term successor to Bruno at a good price I think.

 

[Alemar]

I think the domino that needs to drop in the team for us to be a better and more controlled team in the final third is to remove Bruno from the team.

What we really need to remove is players who hide from the ball.

 

[Borninthe80ts]

I think Casemiro was hung out to dry by ETH 4141 setup, but even on a bad form he positions himself well and wins a lot of tackles. The problem is there is no "right" position if you're playing in midfield on your own, so it's still better to have a mobile player there than current version of Casemiro.

Defensively Mainoo reminds me a bit of Fred, they both get involved in a lot of defensive actions because of their energy and tenacity, but it will happen they will not position themselves correctly just to cut off a passing option or just make it difficult to progress the ball (see Rodri type of DM). This is not a problem but the bottomline is I think he should not have a very restricted position. What he brings when we're in possession is the real deal.

As crazy as it might sound, on paper Casemiro-Mainoo-Mount could be the most balanced midfield setup. I would love to see it as I am tired of McTominay and Bruno, and Amrabat I hope is used as little as possible.


Like in the paragraph above.

Although I still see a role for those you want out of the team I can’t disagree with the 3 that you’ve chosen. You have someone who can sit and dictate play from deep in Mainoo. This should allow Casimero to close down like he does now without having to hold position at the base. I also believe Mount can come good. He works hard and has a bit of everything.

I can see why you want the young lad roaming but I believe he can influence the team equally from deep with more experience in the role. Ideally when we’re dominating possession he can be an extra attacking player from deep so to speak. He has the passing range for it too I believe.

 

[jojojo]

Great way for him to start his United career. Read situations quickly, wanted the ball and knew what to do when he got it. Really pleased for him. We're not an easy team to join at the moment but he did well. Hopefully, he'll get an injury free run now and we'll be seeing a lot more of him.

 

[Yagami]

To be fair to Murtough, the youth team has a few, so it seems an intentional approach.

Mainoo stands out with his composure but Hannibal, Gore, IHA are all very nimble with the ball and hard workers off it. Would class IHA more of an attacking player though.

Not sure why that thinking doesn't seem to be reflected in the senior group, dare I say, it might be due to the managers' influence on first team transfers?

I pointed the same thing out a while ago. Whilst everyone was praising ten Hag's transfers (before a lot of people u-turned after this season began) I thought our strategy was horrendous, and I couldn't understand why because, as well as expecting ten Hag to prioritise players of a certain style, our recruitment strategy for everything under the first teams has prioritised these types of players for a good few years now.

A lot of them may not/didn't make it here because you need more than just press resistant qualities, but they were signed due to showcasing said qualities. We obviously made a point to prioritise developing and scouting/buying players of this ilk for each age group below the first team, which has made our transfer strategy for the first team these past few years all the more baffling to me because we seem to have a complete blind spot for them at this level.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

I’ve no idea. He probably does need to start but it’s a massive ask to make your premier league debut on a Sunday and then champions league debut the Wednesday after in possibly the most hostile ground in Europe, at 18 years old as well. I think he should start though, he can do things our other midfielders simply can’t and he seems to have the attitude and calmness needed. Whether he will start or not is another matter though.

Yeah, even more intense than Rashford's first couple games. It's a big ask but there's not much else we can do.

 

[Freak]

Such a good and composed performance in midfield. Loved that he always wanted the ball and knew what to do with it as soon as he got it. So promising.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

I have to go back to Ronaldo debut for us to have the same feeling that for sure this player is going to be a star for us. Hope I'm right!

 

[Borys]

This is going well not to put too much pressure on the kid.
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[Borys]

Although I still see a role for those you want out of the team I can’t disagree with the 3 that you’ve chosen. You have someone who can sit and dictate play from deep in Mainoo. This should allow Casimero to close down like he does now without having to hold position at the base. I also believe Mount can come good. He works hard and has a bit of everything.

I can see why you want the young lad roaming but I believe he can influence the team equally from deep with more experience in the role. Ideally when we’re dominating possession he can be an extra attacking player from deep so to speak. He has the passing range for it too I believe.

I agree about that, I was always advocating to have another defensively competent player alongside Casemiro so that he is also allowed to attack (he is good offensively no doubt about it). And the same goes for Mainoo, I don't want him to hold the burden of defensive part of the game on his own, this is simply unfair for a kid his age. He can still be the "connector" or "single pivot", just get him help.

I rate Mount, I just think we've been using him wrongly so far.

 

[Longlivekeano]

I think Mainoo has effectively retired VdB from the squad.

 

[robinrooney]

Unreal performance from the lad. So cool and calm. Hope he starts more games as he looks ready.

 

[romufc]

Liverpool in the cup - I think it was his full debut? maybe not?
Anyway in no way on a downer with Mainoo, it was a great to see and I like all the positivity - just some of the definitives in the talk around him is pretty nuts

Billy Gilmour played a few games before the Liverpool one, including the league cup game against United that year. There is difference between the two, he played well in a FA cup game, at home after having 3/4 starts. This was an away PL game.

 

[Fortitude]

I know there's erring on the side of caution and it can make you sound like Obi Wan, saying: 'patience, young one!' , but some people do seem to only have taken notice of the kid literally since his debut and not followed this thread at all prior to it.

Kobbie has been treated and regarded as the Golden Child long before this debut, and if you follow the thread's timeline, one bunch of people telling the other to either lower or measure their expectations is in about its 10th iteration by now.

It's clear this is a level of talent it'd be folly to put an arbitrary cap on; talent says one thing, how things actually unfold is another story entirely that mightn't have anything to do with ability. It seems like those telling others to hold their horses conflate these two things more than those recognising the pure aspects of talent for what it is.

You shouldn't need many games to detect the talent beaming back at you, so calling what you see is in no way jumping the gun. If a player turns on a sixpence, he turns on a sixpence; that's an immediately obvious, intrinsic skill for said player. If the player turns and twists to an elite level comparable to some of the greats, that's literally what he does. It can be called and there's nothing prematurely stated in it being identifiable and obvious. A recent example would be people almost instantaneously observing that Greenwood's shooting technique and strike manipulation was so elite as to be compared to Van Persie's. You didn't need a gazillion games to see that, and it doesn't suddenly mean those stating it were declaring he was on Van Persie's level as a player, rather than that particular attribute being noted as through the roof. An even easier one would be Darron Gibson's freakish strike power, which was up there with Charlton in the club's history for how hard and clean he could strike a ball. Nobody would be saying that Gibson was Charlton for being able to strike a ball like him.

What should be clear is you can't fluke yourself into a debut/performance like that. It is an abnormal level of ability and know-how, and it shouldn't take more than that debut to see that those attributes are absent in our entire squad outside of Mainoo. That's not hyping him up, that's just a statement of fact. It's not an absurdity to comment on and if any of you saw MotD2 (and various shows/podcasts were at it too - even Lee Dixon was full of praise), you'd see a panel of ex-pros, who knew little of Mainoo pre-debut saying what they were seeing is special. It's not outlining his career or getting away with hyperbole, it's simply calling what you see, which is why literally no other midfielder we have has had that kind of praise this season for technical acumen and know-how.

The cautionary tale with this level of talent is along the lines of over-reliance, overplaying and overexposure, not in declarations about the talent itself. The real worry outside of them being corrupted off the pitch is being depended upon at far too young an age - you only have to look at what Barca have ruined in the last couple of years with overplaying in: Pedri (in particular) and Ansu Fati to know that the aforementioned talent can be mismanaged to the point of damaging it, and with our dire midfield, suddenly having exactly the profile of player we've needed in there all season, it might be tempting to play him repeatedly, like his talent warrants.

It's just tricky: there's been so many true teenage prodigies who were wrecked and a shadow of themselves by 30 that it's nothing to be ignored. Does it run 1:1 with just the luck of the draw? For every Cesc, Owen and Rooney is there a Milner, Barry and Giggs (to a lesser extent as his hamstrings possibly lowered his career load organically)? I think this is a theme in itself, but nothing to do with talent.

There also seems to be a secondary notion since his debut that he shouldn't be built up because the moment he has a bad game or run of form, he'll be teared into. That seems like an asinine line of thought. Call a spade a spade and use objective reasoning along with that.

The markers for talent are not the markers for a stellar career, but what that talent does do is give a clear line to what a player is capable of and where he could reach if the stars align health wise and they don't go off the rails mentally or away from the pitch. By talent alone, Kobbie is earmarked for something different from the norm in terms of youngsters who we're just happy to see make it. In a really drab season with a lot of poor football played to date, it's no wonder people are doubly excited to see the kid play and be enthused by what they see - even if this season tanks, but he takes his game from prodigious debutant to fully-fledged £100m+ asset, it'll now be a good a season because it'll have set us up better for subsequent seasons and also poured some hope and faith back into the club.

 

[Rojofiam]

I think Mainoo has effectively retired VdB from the squad.

Different positions. It's always been Bruno that keeps VdB out.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Different positions. It's always been Bruno that keeps VdB out.

i think its VdB who keeps VdB out.

 

[Utd heap]

i think its VdB who keeps VdB out.

Yeah it's the football ability that's been key, unfortunate really.

 

[Rojofiam]

i think its VdB who keeps VdB out.

That as well…

 

[MadDogg]

Eye-watering stuff yesterday.

After a horrible run of youngsters on my shirts:
- Pogba (when he got promoted from academy)
- Januzaj
- Greenwood
- Traore (then the changed his name the week after)
- Mainoo, and he got injured as I was waiting for the kit to arrive.

I had a huge concern with Mainoo's injury as ETH seems to be very stubborn with his favorite players. I thought this could ruin his chances as the preseason momentum died off.

Now the next mission is for Amad to take that right-wing spot from Antony..

Can you start getting the shirts of City and Liverpool's top youngsters instead of ours? Please and thank you.

 

[DWelbz19]

big wall of text

I completely agree with this. It's just a simple thing of seeing fundamental profiles in a player. It's the same reason why after two games I was basically thinking "yep, safe flight back to Germany, Marcel" when Sabitzer was here. Not a poor player, just quite clearly didn't have the strengths that we needed, and that wouldn't have changed if we played him 5 times or 500.

Concurrently, Kobbie Mainoo has the playstyle and the positive traits you need in a top level central midfielder. That's evident after one match. Whether he fully materialises is another question, but there's no denying what he has.

 

[Parma Dewol]

I knew nothing about this kid, the Everton game was the first I'd seen of him. What struck me was how calm he was in everything he did. Would normally expect young debutants to play within themselves, terrified of getting something wrong on the big stage. With this boy, nope, none of it. Strutting around Goodison Park doing his thing as though he owned the place. And to be fair, for the 70-odd minutes he played, he did own that field. Considering the injury, and where we are as a team, that was some debut.