Kyle Walker: Spurs lacked the edge to win trophies

[JPRouve]

Why did you appoint LVG if not partly due to the fact that he was a "big name"? The same goes for Mourinho. Nor were di Maria and Falcao the only big-name players you've gone for: they also include Schweiny, Pogba, Zlatan and Mkhitaryan,

And the cheque-book management approach is self-evident: just look at the vast sums you've spent on additions to your last title-winning squad. This approach is even accelerating under Mourinho.

Weren't Spurs after LVG too?

 

[GlastonSpur]

"Star Player" is a matter of opinion. Not sure how you are claiming it to be a fact, eh?
The statement is too open for you to hide behind whenever you have evidence to the contrary. Man City is your rival and Walker is your first team player who features extensively. Seriously, this is getting tedious.

What's tedious is the denial by some opposition fans that Spurs haven't sold a star player to a Prem rival for the last 9 years. But when asked which star player we've sold they now point to ... wait for it .... Walker.

So what's also tedious is this sudden reinvention of Walker (by a minority of opposition fans) into his having been a star player at Spurs. The likes of Kane, Alli, Alderweireld, Eriksen and Lloris are star players for us. Walker was not in the same bracket and most fair-minded observers will freely acknowledge this.

Walker was (and is) a very good RB, but we have a ready-made replacement (Trippier) and many players who are far important to Spurs than Walker was.

 

[roonster09]

This is a completely different situation though. Because they went to stronger teams challenging for the title, Walker left for a team that finished below us. Earning more is a fair point, but right now Spurs are as competitive as City.

When Arsenal sold Ade and Toure they finished ahead of City. When they sold Nasri and Clichy they finished 1 position (3 points) behind City.

 

[Kostur]

Weren't Spurs after LVG too?

Yes, right before he joined us. Ultimately, he didn't fit their philosophy.

He actually can deliver a cup.

 

[GlastonSpur]

He's talking utter bollox, as per...

I see, so which star player have we sold to a Prem rival in the last 9 years? Or has the cat got your tongue?

 

[roonster09]

Always does that. It's classic Glaston move. The new favourite line he picked up seems to be the 'cup wins depend on the luck of the draw, league position not' to justify Spuds winning feck all. Long may the delusion continue.

The 'Levy doesn't sell to direct rivals' line had to be crossed out from the bullshit reportoire and nature abhors a vacuum so here we are.

Yeah, leaving out the part that makes the point was just facepalm worthy.

Anyways if Spurs sell one more player he will come up with "I said Spurs will never sell players whose surname start with K"

 

[roonster09]

I said that winning a cup depends a lot on the luck of the draw, not that getting knocked out always does. There's a difference.

Winning cup also depends on how the team prepares, which Spurs failed and still failing for years.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Always does that. It's classic Glaston move. The new favourite line he picked up seems to be the 'cup wins depend on the luck of the draw, league position not' to justify Spuds winning feck all. Long may the delusion continue.

The 'Levy doesn't sell to direct rivals' line had to be crossed out from the bullshit reportoire and nature abhors a vacuum so here we are.

I'll ask you the same question: which star player have Spurs sold to a Prem rival in the last 9 years? Instead of a throw-away line about "bullshit repertoire", perhaps you'd enlighten us all.

As for the rest, it's self-evident that winning a cup does depend a lot on the luck of the draw, whilst league position doesn't. If you also regard this statement as BS, you'd best explain why.

 

[LoneStar]

Spurs are not like Real Madrid, Man United, Barcelona or Bayern Münich, though. They're a much smaller club who shouldn't be able to compete with the likes of Chelsea, City and United. For them to finish second (and if Kane hadn't been injured they may even have won it) is as big an achievement, if not bigger, than a league title is for Madrid. People seem to measure their success the same way they measure the success of the biggest clubs in the world, and that just isn't reasonable.

I agree with you in the fact that they have definitely played well above anyone's expectations, for a team of their size. But at some point of time, they must start winning things, or they'll undoubtedly lose their star players. They can't match the big clubs in wages, but winning trophies might keep the players happy.

What they have achieved till now is very good, but in the end, you'll need something to show for it. I think most people regard trophies as a measure of success. Also most of their fans seem to think of themselves as a big club, so of course they'll have to do something to show that they are.

 

[Oldyella]

I think he is talking about Walker's interview, not the posts here.

Although would anyone blame Walker if he wanted to take a dig at Glaston as well?

 

[Pexbo]

"... silverware – that is what I came here for".

I think the large wage increase had rather more to do with it, but of course a departing player will never say that publicly and will want to dress it up in a way that finds favour with the new club's fans.

Anyhow, Spurs were happy enough to let him go for £50m ... so it looks like all sides rest content.

This is something you were denying would happen in this thread:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/spurs-their-wage-structure.428485/#post-20787202

 

[tomaldinho1]

Yes, right before he joined us. Ultimately, he didn't fit their philosophy.

He actually can deliver a cup.

Haha

I wonder if this season is make or break for Poch, he knows he's very close to winning something but it must suck watching Mou, Klopp, Pep, Conte, Koeman, Wenger and even Bilic splashing cash on decent players to strengthen their squads.

 

[Mindhunter]

What's tedious is the denial by some opposition fans that Spurs haven't sold a star player to a Prem rival for the last 9 years. But when asked which star player we've sold they now point to ... wait for it .... Walker.

So what's also tedious is this sudden reinvention of Walker (by a minority of opposition fans) into his having been a star player at Spurs. The likes of Kane, Alli, Alderweireld, Eriksen and Lloris are star players for us. Walker was not in the same bracket and most fair-minded observers will freely acknowledge this.

Walker was (and is) a very good RB, but we have a ready-made replacement (Trippier) and many players who are far important to Spurs than Walker was.

Sounds more like "grapes are sour" to me, but carry on.

I agree that Spurs maintain a tight ship and have most of their key players on long term contracts. Doesn't mean that they can't be forced to sell their key players - case in point is Walker. This won't happen unless you start paying according to the market and also start winning some trophies.

So please stop with this "everything is by design and Levy is the master of his destiny BS". Your posts sound like somehow the sale of Walker was a boon, as if you would have preferred for things to have taken this course.

 

[JPRouve]

I'll ask you the same question: which star player have Spurs sold to a Prem rival in the last 9 years? Instead of a throw-away line about "bullshit repertoire", perhaps you'd enlighten us all.

As for the rest, it's self-evident that winning a cup does depend a lot on the luck of the draw, whilst league position doesn't. If you also regard this statement as BS, you'd best explain why.

Outside of Bale and recently Kane-Alli which star players played for Tottenham in the last 9 years? Robbie Keane?

 

[KM]

Weren't Spurs after LVG too?

They were but he rejected them and they got Pochettino instead. Very lucky, lucky break for them.

 

[roonster09]

They were but he rejected them and they got Pochettino instead. Very lucky, lucky break for them.

Somehow it's a master plan.

 

[GlastonSpur]

This is something you were denying would happen in this thread:

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/spurs-their-wage-structure.428485/#post-20787202

One swallow does not a summer make.

Besides, Walker was hardly "agitating" for a move. The offer came in, we have a ready-made replacement, Walker was willing to leave for higher wages, we got £50m. Everyone is happy.

 

[golden_blunder]

If I was Spurs I'd be laughing all the way to the bank. £50m for walker? What a mugging

 

[djdhrubs]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...0/Walker-believes-City-edge-win-trophies.html

Whilst wages are obviously important, another thing Walker can't say publicly yet (without being perceived as a total prick by his old club) is that at a club like City, you're expected to win trophies. At a club like Spurs, you're not and that pressure doesn't really exist.

It's why Spurs is a great club for a lot of young players. Very little expectation, just go out and play with no pressure, do the best you can, there's always next year for winning actual trophies (or the possibility of joining a bigger club to win those trophies once you've developed yourself a bit).

Players move on from Spurs to test themselves.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Outside of Bale and recently Kane-Alli which star players played for Tottenham in the last 9 years? Robbie Keane?

Modric is the answer to your question, besides the players I've already mentioned (not just Alli and Kane).

And the answer to my question is "no-one". Just as I thought.

 

[golden_blunder]

Leicester won the league with no star players. You don't need a squad full of stars

 

[NK86]

First bold part is true for any club. Even WBA were able to stop a player from leaving the club.

Second bold part: It's not true anymore when the players move from PL club to PL club. Everton sold Stones for 50 Million and Lescott and Milner were sold for nearly 25 Million 7 years ago. Fellaini for 27 Million. When the player moves within league, price will always be higher.

But Glaston didn't come out saying that it was the best transfer in history. All he said was the player mainly moved for the wages, which is very true.

 

[Mindhunter]

Whilst wages are obviously important, another thing Walker can't say publicly yet (without being perceived as a total prick by his old club) is that at a club like City, you're expected to win trophies. At a club like Spurs, you're not and that pressure doesn't really exist.

It's why Spurs is a great club for a lot of young players. Very little expectation, just go out and play with no pressure, do the best you can, there's always next year for winning actual trophies (or the possibility of joining a bigger club to win those trophies once you've developed yourself a bit).

Players move on from Spurs to test themselves.

This is a good point.

 

[Rafateria]

Leicester won the league with no star players. You don't need a squad full of stars

That's a reach when they had players such as Kante & Mahrez !

 

[Mindhunter]

But Glaston didn't come out saying that it was the best transfer in history. All he said was the player mainly moved for the wages, which is very true.

No it isn't. Walker probably wouldn't have moved if it was a Chinese club paying the same wages. So it is ambition too.

 

[golden_blunder]

That's a reach when they had players such as Kante & Mahrez !

I'd argue that both became stars that season rather than being bought as stars. You could even argue that mahrez is a one season wonder. Let's see how that pans out

 

[AltiUn]

Even without Walker I still feel Spurs have a better shot at the league than City do this season, City look like they're signing a lot of players who'll go straight into the first team which could take a lot of time to gel.

 

[Dec9003]

I think Spurs have got a great deal here to be honest. Walker is very average and getting 50 million for him is a good coup.
The problem is Spurs are god awful at reinvesting their money (see all the crap bought with the Bale money, followed by the last transfer window)
Spurs are a good team, but they both lack the ambition and the know how to be a truly special team.
It just shows when you see fans absolutely delighted at the fact that they've been in the top four a couple of times, it's not a big club mentality.
But that's by no means a bad thing, not every club can be a huge super club that takes in trophy after trophy. Spurs can and should be proud of where they are, but they probably won't ever be much more than this.
As for the argument that they're not selling their star players, there's only really Kane in my opinion who is truly worth grand sums of cash just yet anyway.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Sounds more like "grapes are sour" to me, but carry on.

I agree that Spurs maintain a tight ship and have most of their key players on long term contracts. Doesn't mean that they can't be forced to sell their key players - case in point is Walker. This won't happen unless you start paying according to the market and also start winning some trophies.

So please stop with this "everything is by design and Levy is the master of his destiny BS". Your posts sound like somehow the sale of Walker was a boon, as if you would have preferred for things to have taken this course.

What have Spurs got to be "sour grapes" about? We're in great shape and things are developing nicely for us.

Obviously Levy is in control when it comes to deciding who will be sold (and who won't) and to whom and for how much. Spurs weren't forced into selling Walker - it was rationale choice to sell him given that Pochettino sanctioned the sale, that Walker was willing to leave and get higher wages, that's he's not key to the way we play, that we already have Trippier (and the promising Kyle Walker-Peters) and were offered a world-record fee for a defender.

I'm not saying (and haven't said) that Walker's sale is a boon. Obviously our squad depth is now weaker (pending any incoming players), but it's not a huge set-back and we now have £50m extra to spend this summer if we so wish.

 

[Parry Gallister]

I'll ask you the same question: which star player have Spurs sold to a Prem rival in the last 9 years? Instead of a throw-away line about "bullshit repertoire", perhaps you'd enlighten us all.

As for the rest, it's self-evident that winning a cup does depend a lot on the luck of the draw, whilst league position doesn't. If you also regard this statement as BS, you'd best explain why.

Berbatov to us?
Lennon to Everton
Pienarr to Everton
Keane to the scouse
Loads to Swanea including Sigurdsson.

 

[K2K]

Whilst wages are obviously important, another thing Walker can't say publicly yet (without being perceived as a total prick by his old club) is that at a club like City, you're expected to win trophies. At a club like Spurs, you're not and that pressure doesn't really exist.

It's why Spurs is a great club for a lot of young players. Very little expectation, just go out and play with no pressure, do the best you can, there's always next year for winning actual trophies (or the possibility of joining a bigger club to win those trophies once you've developed yourself a bit).

Players move on from Spurs to test themselves.

Very true

Its a different kind of pressure. If Spurs finish second next season again while knocked out in the first round of every competition they are in, it would be regarded as a very good season.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

He aint winning anything at Shitty, Fraudiola is going to have another bad year and Walker won't care at all because of his wages.

Care for a wager on that?

 

[JPRouve]

Modric is the answer to your question, besides the players I've already mentioned (not just Alli and Kane).

And the answer to my question is "no-one". Just as I thought.

Wow, I forgot about him. That's not exactly a big list and from the moment Real Madrid were interested PL clubs were in a difficult spot even in the players' eyes, also the fact that despite that Spurs didn't win a single trophy makes that policy kind of useless. I like Tottenham so I'm not saying it to upset you but as long as Tottenham stays tophyless, all your policies will be meaningless.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Unfortunately this forum's dislike of certain Spurs posters have stripped many here of the ability to be objective towards Spurs.

For example, it is amusing that Walker references trophies but he moves to a club that won zero trophies last year and finished behind Spurs in the league. He moved for the money, clearly.

Spurs have a great project going at the moment.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Berbatov to us?
Lennon to Everton
Pienarr to Everton
Keane to the scouse
Loads to Swanea including Sigurdsson.

All along I've been talking about post-Berbatov.

The others were not star players for Spurs (not even Keane, who was 28 when we sold him and whose most prolific run came alongside Berbatov). And I don't in any case consider Everton or Swansea to be top 4 rivals.

I haven't said we won't sell any players within the Prem, just not star players to Prem rivals.

 

[KM]

Unfortunately this forum's dislike of certain Spurs posters have stripped many here of the ability to be objective towards Spurs.

For example, it is amusing that Walker references trophies but he moves to a club that won zero trophies last year and finished behind Spurs in the league. He moved for the money, clearly.

Spurs have a great project going at the moment.

All that is true, but he also a chance of working with a manager like Guardiola whilst increasing his wages by double plus having a great chance to win titles. Spurs were more than happy to accept such a ridiculous bid for him.

 

[Parry Gallister]

All along I've been talking about post-Berbatov.

The others were not star players for Spurs (not even Keane, who was 28 when we sold him and whose most prolific run came alongside Berbatov). And I don't in any case consider Everton or Swansea to be top 4 rivals.

I haven't said we won't sell any players within the Prem, just not star players to Prem rivals.

Fair enough on the latter. Everton were/are top 4 rivals, back then you weren't getting into it consistently, they made it once or twice and you two were often only a position or two away from each other. Swansea not so much, but they did win a cup more than you in that period and go to Europe with the benefit of the players you sold to them.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Wow, I forgot about him. That's not exactly a big list and from the moment Real Madrid were interested PL clubs were in a difficult spot even in the players' eyes, also the fact that despite that Spurs didn't win a single trophy makes that policy kind of useless. I like Tottenham so I'm not saying it to upset you but as long as Tottenham stays tophyless, all your policies will be meaningless.

Well, the post-Berbatov policy hasn't been meaningless. We've stuck to it for 9 years and counting, largely avoided strengthening our rivals, and generally improved season by season relative to the other top 6 clubs ever since.

A lot of opposition fans don't realise what a turning point the sale of Berbatov was. It was game-changer for Levy's mind-set. Several "in the know" people relayed info to the effect that Levy vowed "never again" ... and so it has proved.

 

[Rafateria]

I'd argue that both became stars that season rather than being bought as stars. You could even argue that mahrez is a one season wonder. Let's see how that pans out

Whilst that is a possibility there's no doubt they played like stars that season and arguably Vardy, Drinkwater and others too.

 

[JPRouve]

Well, the post-Berbatov policy hasn't been meaningless. We've stuck to it for 9 years and counting, largely avoided strengthening our rivals, and generally improved season by season relative to the other top 6 clubs ever since.

A lot of opposition fans don't realise what a turning point the sale of Berbatov was. It was game-changer for Levy's mind-set. Several "in the know" people relayed info to the effect that Levy vowed "never again" ... so it has proved.

It's meaningless because it didn't help you win anything and it didn't elevated your profile as a club either, you are still a selling club, a rich selling club like Dortmund but still a selling club. And for what it's worth Walker might not be a star player but you strengthened City.