It's a blasphemy calling players like Angel Di Maria, Memphis Depay, Lukaku, Sanchez, deadwoods while we can't score 1 shots on target against alkmar
Lack of Coaching
- Thread starter fergieisold
- Start date
What a load of bullshit, Hollywood actors trains and shape their body for acting purposes and you're saying the top 1% footballer can't be trained and conditioned to run more?
seriously, stop making excuses for ole and our players, we're contributing to their complacent
True, all the players are quite doing well for their new club and country. Except for Sanchez, not sure about him yet.
Lack of coaching, tactics and motivation of the players urgently need to be issued. But I think the true issue must be up to the top management level who makes the wrong decisions in the end. There is something rotten to the core, as someone already said.
I guess I wasn’t clear. You just can’t make players a different kind of athlete. If they are not the type that will run forever, they just can’t.
I am far from making excuses for Ole. Athletes have their attributes. If they are not the type that can run forever during a match, you can’t train them to be those types of players.
You cant run for 90 minutes?
You cant train to run for 90 minutes?
Seriously? If they can't pass cant kick cant shoot and now they cant run what the hell are we paying them for?
I'm a chubby 38 years old who can't run, but for 150k/week I'll sure as hell can run 90 for 90 minutes.
What's next? Opposition team using voodoo on ours?
If they can't sustain a press over 90 minutes then they shouldn't be professional footballers.
Absolutely right, that's exactly what I'm saying. We went from a decent collective press against Arsenal, where we won the ball high a couple of times and had them looking shaky in possession, to Rashford rushing the keeper from 50 yards on his own. I agree an intense press for 90 minutes is unrealistic, indeed we should be looking to spend a good portion of the game in possession ourselves anyway, but to drop off after fifteen minutes when we'd shown promise was very disappointing.
To a certain extent. I would struggle but these are elite athletes so you'd expect it to work. We just look clueless on the pitch, I know people complain about the quality of our squad but I see much worse teams playing waaaay better football than we do. See Norwich for example or even AZ yesterday.
I feel like the main problem is the midfield. Everytime the wingers or strikers get the ball, theres never anyone around. Plus they all lack creativity besides pogba, our only effective midfielder and he's been pushed back to mark his own teammates. There's no forward runs or trying to sneak through the centre. Just back up and pass it over to the other side. Cross it to players that have no common sense to actually get in front of the the defenders. Theres no risk taking, like the ideas just don't exist.
our press is sunday league press, it's basically whoever close to the ball chase the ball.
When barcelona does press, their whole team presses. The one with the balls have no other avenue to release it. Ours is just a waste of energy
You need creativity to win an odd match. But to win your bread and butter you need plan, strategy, a well drilled routine that breeds understanding, player moving in concert to disrupt the opponent, decoy, fake run, swaping position, overlapping, where to press who to press, even football manager has a very indepth tactical side of it let alone a real football club.
We seems to think "get it to the wing and cross" is all we need.
Yesterday we pressed but AZ made 3 passes and they broke the press, surely that is way too easy.
And when we get pressed all we end up doing is hoof it up top..
The excuses are getting sillier by the day, I'm pretty sure Liverpool players or City players run for 90 minutes, they also get tired easily but they can press well because there is an organized way to make a press, you don't have to blindly run for 90 minutes to be a pressing side, this stuff has to be coached. A manager can't just say to his players "just run guys" to make the pressing work. Looks like this is what's happening under OGS, players also get pissed off or tired when they constantly keep running to no use and just give up and go back to parking the bus to defend which is easier.
McKenna,Carrick,Phelan,Dempsey just what the feck do they do ?
Last edited:
Very soon Pogba will join that group, unfortunately.
Carrick,mckenna has been with us since fergie, moyes, lvg, jose, and now ole.
If they have any sort of positive impact we would have seen them by now.
Mckenna was U18s coach and was promoted last season, Carrick was coach only from last season or before that when he retired. Both of them were involved with first team only under Jose and Ole.
Have you considered, that you're probably just a poor coach?
I know we haven't got a great squad of players, but we do have some real talent at this club and they're just underperforming. Some are good enough for United and some aren't, i get that. But the way some on here go on about our players as if they're conference league level is a joke.
They're not THAT bad for feck sake. Most people on here are just asking for the most fundamental of things, and we're not doing it. Of course they're not good enough to challenge for the title or play football like City, but they're certainly good enough to be performing better than they currently are.
They're not THAT bad for feck sake. Most people on here are just asking for the most fundamental of things, and we're not doing it. Of course they're not good enough to challenge for the title or play football like City, but they're certainly good enough to be performing better than they currently are.
Yes you are wrong.
What makes you think that you cannot make professional footballers fitter and run more with all the very best that modern sports science methods available.
These are young men who are lucky enough to get paid to play football.
They are not in my opinion anything like fit enough.
At their age, they should be easily able to run non stop each half.
Most don't cover much more than 10k in the whole match and with a 15 mins break.
Pathetic.
I would love to see them trying to run a 10k against average amateur club runners.
I was regularly running a 10k in less than 45 minutes in my late 50's.
As far as fitness goes, they are a joke.
of course professional footballers can run for 90 mins but you don’t find players with Kante’s engine all the time. That’s what I meant. Some players just have a different athletic ability than others. Someone like pogba will never run with the intensity that you see on others in midfield. Some players you can train to be fitter to do that but others you can’t. They just aren’t built that way and will gain more injuries that way.
I might be wrong like you said but I’ve played and coached for many years and have seen the difference in physical abilities of different individuals. You can make players run more and be fitter but certain physics and athletic ability of some players just aren’t going to be suited to be able to play high press for 90 mins. Some players aren’t built that way.
maybe I am but I am also not a dense coach that just expects everyone to be able to do what Ronaldo or Messi do by training more. There is a reason some players’ are built for certain roles. Some players just have physical abilities that others don’t. Look around the league.
just like some are not going to have the smarts of others or composure of others.
Edit: I see where the error in my original post was. The comment I made about not being able to make them fitter by just running more. That was not what I wanted to say. After a couple of drinks, those sentences came out a little simplistic
you can of course make players fitter by running more. They are just not going to be “insert the name of Liverpool player” or “insert the name of city player” if you run pogba more or run “insert the name of united players” more. They can get fitter but some players just don’t have the physical abilities of other and not suited to particular systems.
Last edited:
If you cant do pressing game try other ideas then. Its not the end of the world. Thats what coaching supposed to do and showing on the pitch right? Built a game plan that suited to the players or make the players learns his idea or both. Neither can be found so far.
Showing a some decency about basic of football is the bare minimum. Ole cant even do the basic right let alone coordinated pressing.
I don't think many people are saying they should be able to run their guts out for a full 90 mins. I think what people want to see (myself included) is a coherent, systematic pressing game. Something that Ole himself promised when he came in. They're professional footballers at the elite level, they should be able to do that under the right coaching. It's not about having one person doing it, but the whole team working from the same page. We haven't got that. And it points more and more towards a coaching issue.
Why players can’t head the ball to another player but other team can and its a not even when they are being pressured.
Why don’t we have an overlapping player when the other player is passing another?
I have seen many times there’s a diagonal pass but it’s always refused to be taken. It’s either the player knows they cannot pull off a pass that a premier league team should be able to pull off or know the other player can’t another player pressing him.
Regardless that’s no excuse when you see teams like Watford able to pull this off every week.
Why don’t we have an overlapping player when the other player is passing another?
I have seen many times there’s a diagonal pass but it’s always refused to be taken. It’s either the player knows they cannot pull off a pass that a premier league team should be able to pull off or know the other player can’t another player pressing him.
Regardless that’s no excuse when you see teams like Watford able to pull this off every week.
I'm not sure how true this is as it's a Liverpool fan who has taken great delight in sending me this, however apparently we haven't scored from a set piece in over 200 days... apparently it was on Twitter a few days ago however I dont do Twitter so no way of verifying it.
If it is true that is absolutely shocking and pathetic. It wouldn't surprise me if it is given Rashy's wild free kicks and whenever we take a corner I will sit there thinking "we wont score" however why are we not practicing these things? Why isnt Rashy doing multiple free kick practices or being removed from them. I read Ronaldo's autobiography that he published while still at United and he said how he would regularly stay behind after training to practice his free kicks- wonder if any of our players do that....
If it is true that is absolutely shocking and pathetic. It wouldn't surprise me if it is given Rashy's wild free kicks and whenever we take a corner I will sit there thinking "we wont score" however why are we not practicing these things? Why isnt Rashy doing multiple free kick practices or being removed from them. I read Ronaldo's autobiography that he published while still at United and he said how he would regularly stay behind after training to practice his free kicks- wonder if any of our players do that....
OK. You are talking about their physiology and I can well understand your point.
thumbs up.
We play like we have no idea what to do with the ball. Is it me or does it feel like every team we play against play better football?
One of my favorite bits in the West Ham game happened after a corner when Young ended up on the right and AWB on the left.
The normal thing is that after the attack they switch back to their normal positions but it took them about 5 minutes till that happened, it all looked very amateurish.
The normal thing is that after the attack they switch back to their normal positions but it took them about 5 minutes till that happened, it all looked very amateurish.
The main problem that the club has right now, and the reason for the demise of the club is the Glazer takeover, and also the fact that Ed Woodward is making all the major decisions at the club. He obviously has no idea about football and no idea how to keep a team successful on the pitch. He is the guy making all the major transfer and contract decisions. And he is still in charge and will be continuing to direct the club into the ground as he has done, come January and he will still be deciding who we should sign. That clown needs a major response from all United fans. Get that asshole out of United, preferably with his bosses too. But at least get him the feck out. He is the Virus.
Yes it looks like either we played without any plan or players are not listening the manager. Former more likely.
The worse part and strangely this is consistent since moyes times is clueless passing. Last 6 years united players are passing the ball to the nearest and safest available player and then that player passes safely to another and so on. In that two things happen 99% of time 1) someone loses the ball to pressing opponent 2) mispass (ironically)
Common denominator of this playing style is players like young, mata, lingard, herrera, matic played through all/most of these managers. What worst, we bought Fred as cherry on top.
I still firmly believe we are 3 good midfield signings and 1 forward away from competing top 4. These signings need not be world class, even above average will do for now. United have been ignoring midfield far far too long. They thought buying only Pogba will solve everything. I hope they correct this in coming transfer window.
He worded it badly (obviously they can all improve on their fitness and running ability with the right training), but the guy you are responding to is somewhat right. Every player has their own physical attributes, and not all of them can build themselves up to suit a high press match after match. The likes of Mata and Matic, no matter how much they train, would never be 'good enough' at it. From more successful times, I doubt Scholes would have been able to do it game-in game-out either.
That was always going to happen and many of us called it. These are a group of players who have spent years being one of the lowest working teams in the league. It's impossible to just flick a switch and instantly have those players capable of maintaining a significantly higher workload every game. From memory even Klopp took 18 months for it to really work and they picked up a lot of muscle injuries along the way, and that was a team who I'm pretty started at a higher level (in terms of running and workrate) that what we had when Ole took over.
We were always going to pick up a lot of muscle injuries this season, and we were never going to be able to maintain the high press all season. The only surprise is that it's all happened so early. It's too early to say yet whether it's just bad luck or whether we are actually doing something wrong in training, although it's getting to the stage where questions definitely have to be asked.
It's surprising because we haven't been pressing high
Aimlessly chasing down the goalkeeper doesn't count.
That's sadly true. We did start that way during preseason and the first couple of games of the season. Not to the extent as teams like City and Liverpool, but still more running and pressing than we did previously. But once we copped a few injuries it largely stopped.It's surprising because we haven't been pressing high
Aimlessly chasing down the goalkeeper doesn't count.
Correct, excellent post.
It's a question of being able to run more, and better, than other people who are elite athletes, so I do understand what the other poster is saying. You want to try and turn Veron into Milner?