Can you tell me what all people mean by that?
LGBT issues in Football
- Thread starter esmufc07
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Or maybe, quite simply, those parents ask their daughter who is her little love because they observe her and know she gets attracted to boys? Just a scary idea, I know.
Yes, seriously man. 'Promoting' to me mostly means that you're trying to sell something, and I don't know how you can then promote homosexuality anymore than you can promote, say, being Black. So yeah, I would very much appreciate an actual and clear explanation of what 'promoting LGBT' is supposed to entail.
By promoting something you can also try to make people aware of something, change their thinking about something.
I hope it will be clear enough.
I hope it will be clear enough.
Or maybe, quite simply, people tend to assume heterosexual love and cis-gender identity from a very early age, when children are too young to know or experience it either way, but thus do get unconsciously programmed that way - leading to psychological difficulties at an older age for children that don't confirm to the heterosexual and/or cis-gender norm, when the paradigm that's been programmed into them doesn't appear to work for them very well. A pretty scary idea indeed, and unfortunately rather common.
Almost. What do you mean 'change their thinking about something?
And I'll skip a step and ask the next question right away: what could be wrong with creating awareness about different kinds of sexual orientation and gender identities?
Hmmmm wouldn't it be a bigger problem with self identity if we tried to convince the said girl to love girls?
If she says he loves a certain boy I won't ask my daughter to try and love her female friend. Bloody hell..
If she says he loves a certain boy I won't ask my daughter to try and love her female friend. Bloody hell..
So, you think people can just change their "thinking" about their sexuality, i.e. that they are able to just "change" the gender(s) they're (romantically) attracted to? Just like that, only through means of "promotion", "being made aware of it"?
Out of curiosity, do you also think that homosexuality can be "cured"?
I think that Government of Hungary's stance on U18s banning the sharing of material promoting homosexuality and gender change originates from an earlier incident: a far-right politician shred one of the copies of a recently-pusblished children's book which contains well-known tales reframed in a way in which the hero(es) belong(s) to a stigmatized or minority group. For example, Cinderella is a lesbian in this book. This incident was widely discussed, because one of the most well-known Hungarian pyschologist said that this type of tales can influence the children's orientation at the early childhood. It's still up to debate if I am not mistaken.
You must be trolling at this point.
And as for the second question, I think people will be well aware by now of having different people having different preferences.
What do you mean 'convince'? Who said anywhere that kids should be convinced of anything?
Read my post again. And then check whom I replied too. It will make more sense.
That's so rich coming from you!
And no, people are not sufficiently aware - or at least not in a way that values different kinds of sexuality equally.
If she doesn't want to love a girl then yes, I would have to convince her to try.
I can assure you this doesn’t happen. The only sexuality that gets forced on people is heterosexuality. No one forces homosexuality on anyone.
You said they only know one type of love because they haven't experience the other. So if they don't want to experience the other preference because they're already happy with one then how else do I make her experience that?
What the feck is this?
I don’t know one male in real life who was forced to love a girl but I respect your opinion.
That works either way though, doesn't it? The point is not to establish way thing or another as the norm, but to get a variety of information that displays the diversity of society, so kids get to accept as much as possible of the variety of humanity as normal. That helps reduce racism, for example, and also allows kids to find out for themselves without stigma what works for them in terms of gender and sexuality (when they get to the developmental phase where they become aware of those things).
No one is trying to convince people to become homosexual. That's a classic homophobic trope.
Pretending it doesn't exist or supressing discussion about homosexuality leads to worse outcomes for society than a few people determining they aren't hetero.
I know you're sorry after the game but try and read the whole conversation.
Worth noting that hundreds of psychologists signed a letter that basically said she was talking rubbish.
She literally said that children shouldn't be socialised towards 'deviances'.
And who pretends it doesn't exist? It quite clearly exists.
Who said this and where?
If it's supposed to be me: I have been talking about awareness (knowing this exists); not experience!
That makes absolutely no sense to me. Again, who ever suggested that that's necessary?
If you live in a family, culture or country where homosexuality can range from frowned upon to outright being illegal, you're forced into heterosexuality. It can be for various reasons too, perhaps living in a religious household, or a country where you'd be in danger to admit to your sexual orientation. This is fairly common, even in a country where there are no legal repercussions for sexual orientation, people will often come out later in life, due to the societal pressure put on them or fear of persecution.
The opposite, is unheard of. Nowhere are people forced into same sex relationships. You've probably heard of conversion therapy, where people are forced to be heterosexual. The opposite doesn't exist.
If that's the only point you're going to pull me up on it's not worth discussing with you.
Also worth noting that other pieces showing man and a woman have been said to program kids into heterosexuality. Even in this very thread I think.
It was apparent from the first page Tomus wasn’t worth engaging with.
You mean Arabic countries/orthodox muslim families?
No, the point here is that kids are constantly bombarded with depictions of heterosexuality. So IF it's possible to program someone's sexuality, then society is doing it diligently with heterosexuality. Or, alternatively, the idea is rubbish.
I'm confused by that. I mean every country, and every religion.
I mentioned conversion therapy, which is European and American. I'm clearly not zeroing on any culture or religion.
Now I've pointed that out, can you address my point?
That's true, but it was rather a protest based on ideology. I have daily connection with many psychologists, so I had the chance to spoke with a few child pychologist about this topic. They either agreed with her or were unsure about her (expert?) opinion as there aren't many research which aimed to explore this topic.
I don't mean to pile on you, but I did read the conversation, and I got that understanding from your use of "promotion". I think that people just know, who (or what) they're attracted to, with or without "promotion", wouldn't you agree?
I think I kinda got your point that you don't want to "unnecessarily advertise homosexuality", is that correct? But what do you fear from that "promotion"? That more people will turn gay? If not, wouldn't you agree that it would be healthier, even for children, to know that their sexuality and attraction is normal and accepted, even if it is to the same sex? Would you want children to suppress their feelings?
Another question, would you also ban pornography if you could?
But that's the whole point. Make people aware that different sexualities exist in society and that that's fine.
By keeping everyone who isn't straight, cis-gender a secret all the kids who aren't that will feel wrong. That'll take its toll on their mental health. Why do you want that?
By bombarding heterosexuality you mean that the kids in the kindergarten are sometimes ask to draw pieces with Mom and Dad, she is a daughter and it's that mom or that dad who'll pick her up after classes?
Either way though, heteronormative relationships are dime a dozen in children's tales. If those aren't deemed harmful but showing homosexual relationships apparently potentially damages children... well, hard to explain that stance by anything other than homophobia.
Have you never seen ads? Movies? Read books? Listened to music?
No, I mean that Sleeping Beauty is awoken by a kiss from a handsome prince, that Snow White marries a prince, that Cinderella falls in love with a prince who then puts a fecking shoe on every woman in the country. I mean Tom acting like a complete idiot around clearly sexualised catgirls in fecking Tom and Jerry, stuff like that.
'Promoting' heterosexuality is everywhere in popular culture. You don't even notice it because it's 'natural' to you.
That's why it should be part of the sexual education at the appropriate time as you say. Although, in many schools there are no basic sexual education at all. Anyway, the said book targetted preschoolers. Honestly, I don't know whether it's too early.