I don't understand why everyone brings up fellaini when trying to defend lingard, dislike for fellaini is more down to him being a first choice at times which pissed off fans as most don't think he is good enough to be a first 11 player, one thing no one can disagree about fellaini is that he brings something different to the table and he is very good, even best in the world at what he does, it isn't flashy or even likeable as go to move but it is effective when needed, lingard on the other hand has literally no distinguishable skills, he runs and he is homegrown, other than his goalscoring record at wembley he really has nothing to really speak highly off. He is disliked right now for the same reason cleverley and welbeck were criticized other than being local they have nothing worth speaking of.
Lingard: RedCafe Enemy #1?
- Thread starter horsechoker
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He's not good enough. Starting him over martial/rashford is embarrassing. Especially vs Madrid
He hasnt helped himself with his behaviour on social media over the last few years. The video when the bus got attacked at West Ham was fecking embarrassing and also subsequent nonsense after that. Because he isnt one of our better players he cant get away with it and its made him a bit of any easy target.
Footballing wise, considering his ability, he shouldnt be such a prominent feature of the side (which isnt his fault but typifies how average our attack is) and i guess this annoys people too.
Having said all that, it says more about our other attackers than it does about Lingard that he keeps them out. Martial should be looking at himself if he cant get in the side ahead of him.
Some of the hate towards him is shocking though. He has been no worse than anyone else at that end of the pitch these past couple of years and he has contributed well in some big games. And I still believe that he dribbles at speed better than anyone else we have, which is probably why he plays so much when we play on the counter attack. Good to have a local boy, too.
Footballing wise, considering his ability, he shouldnt be such a prominent feature of the side (which isnt his fault but typifies how average our attack is) and i guess this annoys people too.
Having said all that, it says more about our other attackers than it does about Lingard that he keeps them out. Martial should be looking at himself if he cant get in the side ahead of him.
Some of the hate towards him is shocking though. He has been no worse than anyone else at that end of the pitch these past couple of years and he has contributed well in some big games. And I still believe that he dribbles at speed better than anyone else we have, which is probably why he plays so much when we play on the counter attack. Good to have a local boy, too.
Elbowing people, giving away fouls and being needlessly sent off yes, but anything related to playing the beautiful game of football.. not so much.
Back on topic though, I like Lingard but he should not be a regular starter for us, especially when we have MUCH better players than him in the squad.
What a load of rubbish.....The club is based on winning titles and being competative against the best teams in europe,preferably with as many youth players who are good enough to achive that,lingard isnt good enough....We mayswel play the u18s and never sign anybody,then when we never win anythin you real fans can celebrate that at least we'r doin it the manchester united way.
Van gaal...The guy who had phil jones taking corners?? He was a top manager years ago,not with us,the bloke didnt know what day it was by the time we got him
Good post and hopefully he has matured since the WHU bus incident. Mourinho would have had a stern word with him had he been manager at the time. Martial has blown hot and cold whilst Jesse can follow instructions and put in a good shift which makes him more reliable even if he doesn't have as much quality as Martial.
It makes total sense to start Lingard over a Rashford/Martial against a side like Real Madrid.
As much as I may dislike him and Fellaini, they are two very useful players. Sure they don't deserve to start games against teams that like to sit back but against teams that are playing to win against us, I'd start them nearly every single game. Lingard's record in finals is fantastic and so have his performances been in most matches against good opposition- like Chelsea last season. Similarly for Fellaini- who has scored goals in 3 of the last 4 semifinal games we've played.
Sure they shouldn't start tomorrow nor the game after that but in games vs Chelsea and City and the likes, they may not pose a real attacking threat but they are very effective
Sure they shouldn't start tomorrow nor the game after that but in games vs Chelsea and City and the likes, they may not pose a real attacking threat but they are very effective
Once he becomes a bench or squad player again I am sure fans won't be against him anymore.
Rather like Fellaini he's had more opportunities than he deserves in the first team and they're visible reminders of how far the club has fallen from grace when such mediocre players can become integral first team players.
The fact both of them keep being selected despite putting in poorer performances than more talented colleagues only adds to the anger.
Hopefully as the first XI gets stronger when these guys come off the bench and help see games off or pull off the occasional game changing moment perceptions will change but right now I only envisage it getting worse for Lingard because he's not that good and right now we don't have many wingers of note. More game time will equate to more exposure of his mediocrity. He's a useful squad player and a good personality but right now getting far too many minutes relative to his ability.
Rather like Fellaini he's had more opportunities than he deserves in the first team and they're visible reminders of how far the club has fallen from grace when such mediocre players can become integral first team players.
The fact both of them keep being selected despite putting in poorer performances than more talented colleagues only adds to the anger.
Hopefully as the first XI gets stronger when these guys come off the bench and help see games off or pull off the occasional game changing moment perceptions will change but right now I only envisage it getting worse for Lingard because he's not that good and right now we don't have many wingers of note. More game time will equate to more exposure of his mediocrity. He's a useful squad player and a good personality but right now getting far too many minutes relative to his ability.
I don't know about hate but he often is a first choice starter in attack for a club whose fans are used to top class players in that position, and unlike a few others, he's limited and can't get to that level, so there's bound to be some disappointment/reaction to that from fans. If Barcelona start seeing average players start week in week out on the right after years of Messi then it has an impact. Not that we've had Messi in that position but we've had high standards in the past as well. Not to mention that we still aspire to being the best given our huge spending.
I suspect that had he been a CM or fullback, he'd get nowhere near the same vitriol. United fans are lenient towards homegrown players in positions where they can get away with just graft but it's galling to see an attacking player so clearly unproductive.
Yeah that's mostly it. Lingard being starter at a club with the resources and stature United have is indicted of how far we've fallen. That's so what grates fans.
Find me a player who is as good as fellaini winning aerial balls in the final 3rd, i said it is not a likeable go to tactic but it is effective and can get you points as LVG found out in his first season.
Elbowing people, giving away fouls and being needlessly sent off yes, but anything related to playing the beautiful game of football.. not so much.
Back on topic though, I like Lingard but he should not be a regular starter for us, especially when we have MUCH better players than him in the squad.
His performance suggests otherwise.
ABsolutely not.
Lingard started because he is more defensively astute than any of our other wide players. He worked well in that first half against Real.
But once we went a goal down and therefore needed to chase the game, it made sense to take Lingard off and replace him with someone more dynamic. Surely that's just the very basics of football.
Exactly you can't go from Best, Beckham, Giggs, Ronaldo, Kanchelskis and even Valencia to someone so unproductive.
Two of the best wide forwards ever have played for this club and we've also had a top three of all time left winger so standards are naturally going to be extremely high at a club of this stature which is famous the world over for its wing play.
It's actually more laughable to see people bury their heads in the sand and call other fans spoilt. They may not be going about it the right way but ultimately they're right and your wrong. He simply has no business being a first team regular. That is fact not fiction.
Also, were hardly in a phase where we're building from within or making do with what a have. To spend the obscene amounts we do and still end up fielding players like Lingard and Fellaini as starters is downright strange. If Bayern or Barca did that the player would get the same reaction.
Lingard is taking the fall on the Caf for Martial. People are frustrated he is not playing more, but ultimately has he done enough?
With Lingard you get hard work, intelligent movement and the odd moment of magic.
With Martial you get the ability to beat a player but with limited work back in the other direction. IF he were scoring 15 and getting 10 assists I am sure this would be fine but he isn't
I rate Martial very highly but its up to him to get into the side not for Jose to find him a place
With Lingard you get hard work, intelligent movement and the odd moment of magic.
With Martial you get the ability to beat a player but with limited work back in the other direction. IF he were scoring 15 and getting 10 assists I am sure this would be fine but he isn't
I rate Martial very highly but its up to him to get into the side not for Jose to find him a place
What drivel..
It'snot like Sir ALex Ferguson's teams didn't include plenty of Lingards....Cleverley, Welbeck, Ferguson jnr, Lee Martin, Beardsmore, Gillespie, O'Shea, Fletcher, Brown...blah, blah, blah...our successes have always been built on hard-working, yet deply underappreciated graduates from our academy.
You're talking nonsense. To think our succesful teams have all been made up of Ronaldos is showing no understanding of what's gone on at our club.
In all the time he has been with us how many sendings off?
Elbowing people, giving away fouls and being needlessly sent off yes, but anything related to playing the beautiful game of football.. not so much.
Back on topic though, I like Lingard but he should not be a regular starter for us, especially when we have MUCH better players than him in the squad.
The lack of understanding of how football works on here is shocking.
How many of those were actual first team regulars? For a long period of time?
Only Fletcher and Brown for a brief while managed to rise above their station and become proper first team players for a season or two but for the most part those players were all only squad players and all sold off because they weren't good enough for the first team.
Stop going on like you know about football and you're the only one.. your posts have probably been the most drivel out of everyone's in this thread.
And, aside from Welbeck, all those players were eventually sold to crap teams.
Surely you're the one saying you know better than Jose mourinho when it comes to picking lingard? I would say your position there is the harder one to defend, even though it's the popular opinion
Like spoilt children.
Lingard's lack of footballing ability is even more shocking, especially for someone who constantly starts over Martial or Rashford for a team such as Manchester United, at least with Fellaini you know that there is a certain tactical approach with him playing
So basically everyone who disagrees with you is stupid and spoilt? Such incredible levels of arrogance.
So he started to try and stop them from scoring,which we failed to do,which meant we then had to take him off because he's not very good going forward...So basically he failed to do what he was there for which is no suprise and not his fault because he's not paulo maldini,his devensive work is massively overrated,he's got a decent workrate fairenough but nothing thats even going to put a dent into madrids attacking play as proven on the night and certainly nothing worth sacrificing a much better attacking player for.
How many of them were attacking players?
People soon got fed up with Welbeck similarly to Lingard. We just like any other elite clubs don't have time for mediocre attackers. Nani was driven out so it's hardly a case of fans being muppets and wish for shinier exotic names.
When I see threads like this my heart sinks. What is the point of the OP? It is just (yet another) place for people to pile in and trash one of our players. Why?
Tbf Lingard started as a wingback against Real but moved into a more advanced position once they scored. When you play him on the flank you are just inviting pressure, he just isn't a cause for worry and Carvajal must have had one of the easiest halves you see. He even assisted their goal under minimal pressure.
Second half Rashford came on, we started to threaten on the left and their right back was nowhere to be seen in attacking sense.
So yes he is quite often my scapegoat, because replacing him has often led to a way more threatening attack.
I just feel selecting Lingard represents negative tactics, I'd like to believe you can defend by selecting an attacking winger who commits the right back, makes him less inclined to go forward.
Second half Rashford came on, we started to threaten on the left and their right back was nowhere to be seen in attacking sense.
So yes he is quite often my scapegoat, because replacing him has often led to a way more threatening attack.
I just feel selecting Lingard represents negative tactics, I'd like to believe you can defend by selecting an attacking winger who commits the right back, makes him less inclined to go forward.
His ability is being exposed because of how often he starts. He;s being judged as a XI player.
Imo, not fair on him. We need someone on that right side badly.
Imo, not fair on him. We need someone on that right side badly.
I mean Ibrahimovic scored 28 goals last season and he was still blamed for missing too many chances. For as long as we aren't winning league titles players will always be blamed and scapegoated
/won titles with us.
I really don't get the hate for him. I can only put it down to the fact that someone has to be the worst player in the squad and unfortunately a lot of people consider that to be him. It does tend to be the academy graduates that are good solid players but not a "Wonder kid" that get all the flack.
Last season he got 2 goals and 2 assists from like 40 appearances. It wouldn't matter if he was a cdm or a full back, but he plays as a wide attacker. He's not good enough.
Unfortunately for us the players who are his competition clearly are terrible too, otherwise they'd have permanently displaced him right?
Unfortunately for us the players who are his competition clearly are terrible too, otherwise they'd have permanently displaced him right?
As always, spot on Raees.
He's not good enough but still starts for us a shit loads of times. Not his fault of course but the frustration with him starting games although never producing will make fans turn on him.
Difference is that Fellaini actually has had a lot of very good games and sometimes even looked our best player on the pitch. The times Lingard has looked good for us can be counted on one hand.