Lingard: RedCafe Enemy #1?

[Raees]

Difference is that Fellaini actually has had a lot of very good games and sometimes even looked our best player on the pitch. The times Lingard has looked good for us can be counted on one hand.

Fellaini definitely the more effective player in terms of impact but arguably Lingard the better fit for a top side off the bench due to his superior ability to keep the ball. If you're trying to win a game I'd bring Fellaini on for a plan B and if you're trying to see a game out I'd bring Lingard on.

Both have their uses but are very limited players for a side that is trying to compete with the best sides in the world. As squad players good to have around but nothing more than that.

 

[Witchking]

When players like Mkhi, Martial, Rashford are there, you should not opt for Lingard only because he tracks back better. This in my opinion, is a problem with Jose. Wants to keep his reputation intact and opts for safety first in a big match, lest he gets tonked 5-0 like his Madrid did against Barcelona.

Really frustrating that just because Lingard is from Manchester, he should start. He is a decent player and i do not disagree, but starting matches ahead of Martial and Rashford does not seem right.

 

[jungledrums]

He's a bit shit.

 

[2mufc0]

He's just a very mediocre footballer who's getting more game time than he should, it's not rocket science. Fans reacted the same way when Rooney was playing so many minutes.

This doesnt mean the fans hate him or he's enemy no.1 (whatever that means). I can see the angle where he can be a useful squad player that's all, he's very fortunate he plays for a conservative defensive manager, if he was at a more attack minded club like Madrid, Barca, Bayern etc he wouldn't even be on the bench.

 

[Sultan]

The lack of understanding of how football works on here is shocking.

Apologies we don't meet your high standards of understanding. This forum might be somewhat beneath your intellect.

I am setting you free to post with more educated posters on other forums.

Goodbye.

 

[I Believe]

It seems many of Lingard's critics on here are actually frustrated Martial fans bemoaning the fact that he doesn't get the playing time that Lingard does. Yes, Martial looks to have more potential, but his role is different to Lingard's.

Lingard is United's best player 'without the ball', his diagonal runs across the pitch dragging individuals out of (2x4men) walls of defenders out of position, is one of his classic pieces. His contributions to the success of the team, winning goal in FA final, that perfect 'early ball' cross for Zlatan to score against West Brom, are all just as worthy as Martial's contributions.

Lingard provides a function that Mourhino needs and most of the time he performs that function well, support Martial's inclusion by all means, but stop with this 'bile' against Lingard

 

[Scarecrow]

It has to be one of the most nepotistic professions on the planet. Almost every manager is an ex pro, almost all of whom were taken out of school at an early age and generally have very low education levels. By and large they are not tactical or management geniuses. Its a very small talent pool they are taken from. I think it's a poor assumption that non footballers couldn't do the job if the door was open to them and that non footballers can't ever know better than them.

That's rubbish mate. You don't need high education levels to know about football and to be a good manager and tactician. It also helps massively to have been part of the game for years, as a player, playing under different managers, with different teammates, being in all kinds of situations and having relevant experience and knowledge about what works and what doesn't work. Much harder to learn all that from the TV or in a class room. It's a highly specialized line of work. General education means close to feck all.

I think most people here that have spent a few thousand hours on a pitch would agree.

 

[WoodysWallet]

He's a good squad member without question. He also adds that little bit of drive that we've lacked from midfield.

He always seems to play better centrally, I can't stand to watch him play out wide. He's more of a ten than a winger imo.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Lingard is a Manchester United player. He is a player all United fans should support. It's amazing how two top managers consistently play/played him.

People just like to moan. Our club is based on our youth products. Plastic fans need to understand that.

This is the biggest load of tripe on here, he's a poor player and during the 54 years of supporting this club he is easily the worst player we've had with over 50 starts, so no I"m not a plastic fan and I do know a good player when I see one . No amount of pretending that running round like a headless chicken cancels out his lack of ability just because he's a local lad . Love to have local lads in the team but they have to be able to play football at a reasonable level as expected by United first.

Just as well no manager ever makes a mistake, he'll be found out eventually but now we've got a player with little ability on a high wage that no other club is remotely interested in.
I don't hate him as a person, just don't want him anywhere near the team.

 

[flappyjay]

Whats that saying 'hard work beats talent until talent starts working hard' - onus is on them to up their workrate no?

With forward players scoring and assisting are the most important, working harder than than most forwards should be an added bonus not the main quality

 

[Robbie Boy]

What drivel..

It'snot like Sir ALex Ferguson's teams didn't include plenty of Lingards....Cleverley, Welbeck, Ferguson jnr, Lee Martin, Beardsmore, Gillespie, O'Shea, Fletcher, Brown...blah, blah, blah...our successes have always been built on hard-working, yet deply underappreciated graduates from our academy.

You're talking nonsense. To think our succesful teams have all been made up of Ronaldos is showing no understanding of what's gone on at our club.

Christ, what a terrible post.

 

[Sultan]

It's the nature of football fans. A hero and villain within a few games.

 

[Witchking]

With forward players scoring and assisting are the most important, working harder than than most forwards should be an added bonus not the main quality

Perfectly put.

A forward has the big task of scoring. If he tracks back and manages to be in his attacking position when an attack is in motion then it's a bloody good thing to have, but starting Lingard ahead because he tracks back and listens to instructions is not good when you have a classy player like Martial sitting in the stands.

You will invite more pressure since Lingard will not be a good attacking outlet and the wing backs will start to make more runs in the opposition area.

 

[Sultan]

Christ, what a terrible post.

He's now banned, Rob.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He's now banned, Rob.

Ah cool, didn't notice that.

 

[JPRouve]

It has to be one of the most nepotistic professions on the planet. Almost every manager is an ex pro, almost all of whom were taken out of school at an early age and generally have very low education levels. By and large they are not tactical or management geniuses. Its a very small talent pool they are taken from. I think it's a poor assumption that non footballers couldn't do the job if the door was open to them and that non footballers can't ever know better than them.

Sports management is like Welding, you need natural predispositions and an awful lot of experience.

 

[kps88]

Once he becomes a bench or squad player again I am sure fans won't be against him anymore.

He already is a squad player.

 

[Sultan]

Lingard generally has a job to move oppositions defensive midfielder to make room for others. We don't generally see that side of his game. Might not be the most technical player but he has a defined role which he must be doing well.

 

[JPRouve]

Lingard generally has a job to move oppositions defensive midfielder to make room for others. We don't generally see that side of his game. Might not be the most technical player but he has a defined role which he must be doing well.

I don't really think that he does it well though, his movements aren't really good. It's probably better than Martial's but neither are close to average in that department. Personally I like the fact that he hustles, it can be useless in certain games.

 

[Lennon7]

Again, I'd keep him as a squad player but he's 100% not good enough to regularly start. He's definitely not more of a scapegoat than Fellaini, I think opinions on him are relatively mixed.

 

[Sultan]

I don't really think that he does it well though, his movements aren't really good. It's probably better than Martial's but neither are close to average in that department. Personally I like the fact that he hustles, it can be useless in certain games.

Obviously, he's not my choice for a starting place on talent. However, he is probably the only option we have at present in the squad for a particular role Jose likes.

 

[RedPhil1957]

Apologies we don't meet your high standards of understanding. This forum might be somewhat beneath your intellect.

I am setting you free to post with more educated posters on other forums.

Goodbye.

Unless i missed a horrid post it is in my opinion a very harsh banning, we are not Rawk.

 

[Robbie Boy]

If he were literally a squad player that played every now-and-again, I don't think people would have many issues. The fact is, he plays way too much given his poor offensive output and general average-to-poor displays.

 

[Litch]

I like him but my problem is he starts when I feel Martial really should be.

 

[Ainu]

Apologies we don't meet your high standards of understanding. This forum might be somewhat beneath your intellect.

I am setting you free to post with more educated posters on other forums.

Goodbye.

Unless i missed a horrid post it is in my opinion a very harsh banning, we are not Rawk.

I agree, if his posts in this thread are the reason for his banning then that is disturbing in my opinion.

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

Liverpool will always be PE#1

 

[wiz4231]

Whats that saying 'hard work beats talent until talent starts working hard' - onus is on them to up their workrate no?

We have all seen what players like Miki and Martial can bring to the team. All players have an off day here and there, that doesn't justify them being sat on the bench for the next 6 games especially when replaced with subpar players like Lingard who then get hauled off at halftime replaced by another subpar player in Fellaini all to do a job while the more talented players get their act together and still end up doing it again the next game as some way to redeem themselves.
Miki is an experienced player, he's going to have a off day sometimes especially when we chop and change so much and his role changes from game to game. You have to keep playing him regardless as he's a player that can make a difference.
As for martial, he's still young and developing, we shouldn't expect world class performances from him, he's still learning his trade, experimenting what work for him and what doesn't and in the process of perfecting it. This requires game time, not training. As frustrating as it is it's the only way he's going to improve.
I can't say Rashford has improved from when he burst onto the scene, he needs to develop as a striker, playing him on the wing has improved him in some aspect but upfront is where he needs to develop and improve thus allowing martial to develop on the LW. Also with Lukaku coming it takes a lot of weight off Rashford shoulders knowing he'll be around for a while unlike Zlatan.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

It's not his fault he plays for us so much. It just demonstrates the lack of quality we have. People say Martial, but he was terrible for the most part last season. If Lingard had played that bad he'd have been run out of Manchester.

He does a solid if unimpressive job when called upon. Shouldn't be any more than a bench option, or specialist tactical option for certain games, but we are where we are.

 

[Sultan]

Unless i missed a horrid post it is in my opinion a very harsh banning, we are not Rawk.

I agree, if his posts in this thread are the reason for his banning then that is disturbing in my opinion.

I assure you, gentlemen, it's not for his posts in this thread.

 

[MrSingh2002]

I can't see him ever getting 10 goals in a premier league season so in my opinion hes not the winger I want in the team. He works hard and has now a habit of scoring important goals.

If he could score or assist more he would be considered a good player. As it is, I think if he wasn't English he wouldn't be allowed anywhere near Man United.

 

[settembrini]

He would be a fine squad player who most people would like if only he was a squad player. But he isn't. He is often compared to Park but Park averaged 29 appearances a season as a United player. Lingard made 42 appearances last season and 40 the year before. He is a player we see most weeks and his performances don't justify it.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

If he were literally a squad player that played every now-and-again, I don't think people would have many issues. The fact is, he plays way too much given his poor offensive output and general average-to-poor displays.

This is it.

I don't even blame Lingard anymore, he's clearly trying his best and he seems to be a good lad and genuine Utd fan.

I blame Jose. He has to stop playing Lingard so regularly, he isn't good enough to warrant the game time he gets.

 

[Kag]

He starts big games for Manchester United when he isn't remotely good enough to be doing so. He's genuinely a bit shit, and there's argument to suggest that he wouldn't get a starting berth for many other teams in the league. Think West Ham, Southampton, Everton and Stoke. Considering the club has spent millions of pounds to improve, that's understandably frustrating.

He's also a bit of a tit; an example of the lads lads snapchat bantz culture that many (older) people have no time for. This, and the fact he's a bit shit, impacts his popularity.

 

[I Believe]

Lingard generally has a job to move oppositions defensive midfielder to make room for others. We don't generally see that side of his game. Might not be the most technical player but he has a defined role which he must be doing well.

Spot on!

That is one of Lingard's main role requirements, to as it were 'buzz around' defenders, creating space for (so called) better players to exploit, hence the accusation 'he runs about a lot', which is precisely what he's supposed to do!

When he is 'on his game' he is our best player 'without the ball'

IMO Lingard makes a contribution that Mourhino values, those who don't like Mourhino's approach won't like or necessarily value Lingard.

 

[Eckers99]

He's not shit enough to become a cult figure and not good enough for the first team, so lands squarely in the 'he's the reason for all our woes' category. And he's an excessive dabber. Perfect storm.

 

[laughtersassassin]

There is a simple reason why lingard is not liked. He starts and plays way too much for someone who never scores. If we play 3 attackers it is not realistic to hope to do well in the league if one is lingard as he scored 1 league goal last season.

That is insanely poor.


Without signings our best option is to start Martial at least against all the teams below top 6.


Give Martial a run of games that he never got last season and he should do better than this.
League Goals and Assists last season:

Martial = 10 Rashford + Lingard = 9

"Poor season" vs "Hardworking Players".

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I don't hate him, but I don't particularly rate him, either. That said, no team in the world has world class players in every squad position.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

There is a simple reason why lingard is not liked. He starts and plays way too much for someone who never scores.

You don't watch cup finals?

 

[kps88]

He would be a fine squad player who most people would like if only he was a squad player. But he isn't. He is often compared to Park but Park averaged 29 appearances a season as a United player. Lingard made 42 appearances last season and 40 the year before. He is a player we see most weeks and his performances don't justify it.

Those stats can be misleading as they would even include a 10 second substitute appearance. If you look at minutes played in the league and Europe for last season, he's had less playing time than both Martial and Micky. He's definitely a squad player for me. I mean, do you really think he's a first choice player the way Baily, DDG, Pogba, Lukaku etc. are?

 

[Castia]

I've got no problem with Jesse he's a decent squad player. The problem much like Fellaini is when he starts games when we clearly have better players in his position.