Lionel Messi is OFFICIALLY the Greatest Player of all Time (CONFIRMED OFFICIAL)

genardk

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The Goat debate wasn't decided by Ronaldo's Euro victory why then do Messi fans bully others to accept the Goat debate after Messi finally won international trophies 5 years later.

Fans can be crazy. :lol:
Because Ronaldo is no match for Messi.

He is not even among the top-100 players in terms of technique, playmaking. Maybe top 40 or something for dribbling.
In terms of goal-scoring, Ronaldo's main strength, Messi easily matches him..

and don't let us get started with Ronaldo's amazing showing in the WC with 0 goals & assists in 5 WCs.. The guy was not even Portugal's best player in EC 2016, and last time I saw he was cheerleading against France in the EC final rather than having any impact in the final..

Visit us again when Ronaldo finally wins an MVP award in an international tournament. Messi already has 6 including 2 WCs..
 

njred

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I saw both. Messi beats Maradona easily both career-wise and peak-wise..
Messi matches Maradona in terms of playmaking, dribbling, creativity etc. Maradona can't match Messi in terms of goal-scoring, it's a different level.

Also Barca in 2019 is no stronger than Maradona's Napoli (relative strength), and Messi single-handedly took Barca to La Liga title and to semis in the CL against many super-teams.
Again an opinion agree to disagree. Although Maradona dragged his team through the World Cup with help from his teammates whilst Argentina just won with help from Messi.
 

Righteous Steps

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I saw both. Messi beats Maradona easily both career-wise and peak-wise..
Messi matches Maradona in terms of playmaking, dribbling, creativity etc. Maradona can't match Messi in terms of goal-scoring, it's a different level.

Also Barca in 2019 is no stronger than Maradona's Napoli (relative strength), and Messi single-handedly took Barca to La Liga title and to semis in the CL against many super-teams.
The last part is so silly, you can’t compare Napoli of that time and Barca who basically play in a two team league.
 

Andrade

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That's right, I've never seen a more arranged FIFA WC in my life. Argentina was awarded fake penalty when they had problems vs Netherlands on quarterfinals, then another fake penalty to open the score vs Croatia on semifinals, and then another fake penalty to open the score in the final vs France. Ive never seen something like that on a WC.

It was clear they wanted a final with the 2 PSG (Qatar) top stars and then they awarded the final to Messi.
I thought this was satire at first but it actually looks like this guy is serious....dear oh dear. Please do better. We are hopefully not a bunch of 12 year olds on Twitter here.
 

genardk

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Again an opinion agree to disagree. Although Maradona dragged his team through the World Cup with help from his teammates whilst Argentina just won with help from Messi.
Yeah, definitely, Valdano and Burruchaga were non-factors in the final. Maradona would still win the WC even if they had "Higuain" moments.
And, I agree, Maradona had the best WC performance ever by a single player.
 

Demyanenko_square_jaw

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The last part is so silly, you can’t compare Napoli of that time and Barca who basically play in a two team league.
The idea of modern superclubs being one-man teams is ridiculous. Even the supposed struggles and bad seasons for these teams, they are packed with very good supporting players and on a level beyond what many teams will ever get to.

It's just nonsense designed to overglorify players that absolutely don't need it.
 

Lay

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That's right, I've never seen a more arranged FIFA WC in my life. Argentina was awarded fake penalty when they had problems vs Netherlands on quarterfinals, then another fake penalty to open the score vs Croatia on semifinals, and then another fake penalty to open the score in the final vs France. Ive never seen something like that on a WC.
It was clear they wanted a final with the 2 PSG (Qatar) top stars and then they awarded the final to Messi.
You need to post comments on TikTok videos I reckon. This post would fit in well.
 

amolbhatia50k

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It’s an opinion but having watched both Maradona and Messi’s whole careers I put Maradona at his peak as the best player I have ever seen. Youngsters who have grown up watching Messi but only see clips of Maradona really can’t definitively say Messi was the best. You had to have seen both. If you did see both and say Messi then fair play but you would be wrong.
I don't think definitive is even possible given the 30 year gap. Same with Pele. I mean you do say peak and not overall which is one issue with Maradona's claim as well. Either way I think there will be all sorts of views and nothing conclusive. All three have a strong claim and one can have a general gut feeling but it's not very meaningful.

I saw both. Messi beats Maradona easily both career-wise and peak-wise..
Messi matches Maradona in terms of playmaking, dribbling, creativity etc. Maradona can't match Messi in terms of goal-scoring, it's a different level.

Also Barca in 2019 is no stronger than Maradona's Napoli (relative strength), and Messi single-handedly took Barca to La Liga title and to semis in the CL against many super-teams.
Yeah that's the thing. I've heard many people who saw both say that Messi is better too. But there's so much involved - nostalgia, recency bias, the difference in the game / teams- that it becomes a it futile.

All I know is that I Messi is comfortably the best I've seen and the only alien / genius footballer in my time and its hard fathom someone better. I'll leave it at that.
 

Pintu

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Also Barca in 2019 is no stronger than Maradona's Napoli (relative strength), and Messi single-handedly took Barca to La Liga title and to semis in the CL against many super-teams.
I love Messi and we did find out later that his impact on Barca (with them crashing out of the GS twice) was underestimated.
But the super-teams you are speaking about were Lyon and United (Olé's United).

Barca won la Liga against a poor Real Madrid (One that started the season with unqualified coaches and got trashed by Ajax)... Go read about the Dutch trio, about Maldini, Baresi and the others. This is the Milan that Maradona did beat to the Scudetto in 89/90:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989–90_A.C._Milan_season
 

genardk

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I love Messi and we did find out later that his impact on Barca (with them crashing out of the GS twice) was underestimated.
But the super-teams you are speaking about were Lyon and United (Olé's United).

Barca won la Liga against a poor Real Madrid (One that started the season with unqualified coaches and got trashed by Ajax)... Go read about the Dutch trio, about Maldini, Baresi and the others. This is the Milan that Maradona did beat to the Scudetto in 89/90:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989–90_A.C._Milan_season
That Napoli could not even go beyond the 2nd round in European Cup in their two attempts..

Go read about how Napoli fared in Europe with peak Maradona.. And, this is coming from a guy who thinks that AC Milan was one of the top 3-4 teams of all time in Europe..
 

Pintu

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That Napoli could not even go beyond the 2nd round in European Cup in their two attempts..

Go read about how Napoli fared in Europe with peak Maradona.. This is coming from a guy who thinks that AC Milan was one of the top 3-4 teams of all time in Europe..
Maradona dragged that Napoli to win a UEFA Cup when it was a good competition, almost as good as the EC (Maradona's Napoli knocked out Bayern and Bordeaux in their way to winning the UEFA Cup).

But why are you moving the goalposts. You were the one comparing Napoli's Scudetti wins to Barcelona winning a 1 horse league...
 

genardk

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Maradona dragged that Napoli to win a UEFA Cup when it was a good competition, almost as good as the EC (Maradona's Napoli knocked out Bayern and Bordeaux in their way to winning the UEFA Cup).

But why are you moving the goalposts. You were the one comparing Napoli's Scudetti wins to Barcelona winning a 1 horse league...
Come on man.. Between 1988-1995, 10 out of 14 UEFA Cup finalists were Italians.
Even Fiorentina, Torino were playing finals in UEFA Cup, nothing special for an Italian champion like Napoli.. Napoli failed badly in European Cup, even Sampdoria managed to play a final in 1991.

Imagine calling La Liga a one-horse league with Real and Atletico.. Barca's squad that year was just above average, nothing special.. Messi was the difference maker.
 

Pintu

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Come on man.. Between 1988-1995, 10 out of 14 UEFA Cup finalists were Italians.
Even Fiorentina, Torino were playing finals in UEFA Cup, nothing special for an Italian champion like Napoli.. Napoli failed badly in European Cup, even Sampdoria managed to play a final in 1991.
And most of these italian clubs were very good back then, with many great players. Fiorentina and Sampdoria kept that level deep into the 90s... Which should give even more credit to Maradona leading Napoli to win the scudetto twice!

La Liga was the best league in the world between 2012-2017... But it was nothing special in 2018/2019. Both of Madrid clubs were quite poor that year.
 

genardk

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And most of these italian clubs were very good back then, with many great players. Fiorentina and Sampdoria kept that level deep into the 90s... Which should give even more credit to Maradona leading Napoli to win the scudetto twice!

La Liga was the best league in the world between 2012-2017... But it was nothing special in 2018/2019. Both of Madrid clubs were quite poor that year.
Of course, Italian league was extremely strong those times.. That's why Napoli's failure in European Cup as Italian champions twice looks very disappointing..
 

Ladron de redcafe

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I thought this was satire at first but it actually looks like this guy is serious....dear oh dear. Please do better. We are hopefully not a bunch of 12 year olds on Twitter here.
Have you seen the CR **** on twitter? :lol: They ALL sound like this. "Pessi fake award he don't win like the king Cristiano. Cristiano win it real would be 20 world cup to Messi 1"
 

Andrade

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Have you seen the CR **** on twitter?  They ALL sound like this. "Pessi fake award he don't win like the king Cristiano. Cristiano win it real would be 20 world cup to Messi 1"
Whatever helps people sleep at night I guess.....hopefully they will join the rest of us in the real world at some point.
 

Lee565

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Have you seen the CR **** on twitter? :lol: They ALL sound like this. "Pessi fake award he don't win like the king Cristiano. Cristiano win it real would be 20 world cup to Messi 1"
And they tend to all have Arabic scribble for their names, it's funny that for a population in that part of world that are so anti gay they sure love obsessing over a guy that posts more pics without clothes on than with them on on Instagram...
 

Lee565

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Messi was smart choosing psg tbh and being released by barca was a blessing in disguise, he can earn crazy money whilst in the twilight of his career in a weaker league that will flatter his drop in levels and can walk at a snails pace during games and still be guaranteed ucl knockout football every season for the next 3 or 4 years if he decides he is happy to keep playing on as there is no way a sports washing club like psg is going to move Messi on anytime soon
 

Lay

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Have you seen the CR **** on twitter? :lol: They ALL sound like this. "Pessi fake award he don't win like the king Cristiano. Cristiano win it real would be 20 world cup to Messi 1"
I saw a TikTok video, not sure if parody but they're hoping Cristiano plays two seasons in Saudi (Wins the Asian Champions League), moves back to Madrid to partner Mbappe, wins the UCL by finishing as the top scorer in league and Europe - oh and wins the 2026 World Cup.. He then moves to the MLS to retire.

The **** of CR7 is fecking bizarre. Maybe the weirdest I've come across.
 

Ladron de redcafe

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I saw a TikTok video, not sure if parody but they're hoping Cristiano plays two seasons in Saudi (Wins the Asian Champions League), moves back to Madrid to partner Mbappe, wins the UCL by finishing as the top scorer in league and Europe - oh and wins the 2026 World Cup.. He then moves to the MLS to retire.

The **** of CR7 is fecking bizarre. Maybe the weirdest I've come across.
There was a guy on here who was telling everyone how Ronaldo was going to score 10 goals during this world cup and that the "haters" were going to be in tears.

As you said, sometimes it's so delusional, that it does sound like parody. How anyone with a fully functioning brain believe what you said you saw on the tiktok video is beyond me.
 

tariqo

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Messi still the best player in the world at age 35
he won the world cup & best player award & on his way to win his 8th ballon d'or

but still delusional ronaldo's fanboys saying his game declined


for the goat debate

Messi
Maradona
Pele
Ronaldo phenomeno
Cruyff
Zidane
Baggio
Romario
Roberto Carlos
Rivaldo


if we talking about performance overall & technique & skills

Cristiano isn't better than any of those players at all ...... fact
 

Gehrman

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Messi still the best player in the world at age 35
he won the world cup & best player award & on his way to win his 8th ballon d'or

but still delusional ronaldo's fanboys saying his game declined


for the goat debate

Messi
Maradona
Pele
Ronaldo phenomeno
Cruyff
Zidane
Baggio
Romario
Roberto Carlos
Rivaldo


if we talking about performance overall & technique & skills

Cristiano isn't better than any of those players at all ...... fact
Hmm kind of what you'd expect from a Barcelona fan. And Messi had a great world cup for his age but he's not the best on the world anymore.
 
Last edited:

Andrade

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Hmm kind of what you'd expect from a Barcelona fan. And Messi great world cup for his age but he's not the best on the world anymore.
Great world cup for any age really. I think you could make the argument that he's still the best ITW even now.
 

Gehrman

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Great world cup for any age really. I think you could make the argument that he's still the best ITW even now.
I think any team finds it harder to stop Mpabbe these days than Messi. However Messi on his best days can still look like best player in the world even if its his lower level.
 

Andrade

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I think any team finds it harder to stop Mpabbe these days than Messi. However Messi on his best days can still look like best player in the world even if its his lower level.
Mbappe is a better athlete and in his physical prime, but he cannot get involved in games if he is not effectively supplied. Also he is better when there is space in behind for him to run into; when teams defend deep with a low block, you'd prefer a Neymar or a Messi with their ability on the ball to try and pull strings.
 

mshnsh

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[

[/QUOTE]
What about the vision, passing
Messi Fans discredit Ronaldo's other attributes such as being a legendary header Of the ball and having longer range shots back in the day, while having the best dribbling ability a 6ft player can possess.
They were both deadly effective in almost equal measure while Messi did it in a more aesthetically pleasing manner.
Remember when Ronaldo hit free kicks from different angles/distance of the pitch? Didn't matter to Messi fans.
A 6ft player will never have the same close control of the ball as a shorter player, neither will a 5ft player have the same heading ability as a taller player.
Basing the better player on simply "eye test" or dribbling ability is simply not accurate.
Most shorter skillful players immediately pass the eye test cos of their close control, doesn't make them overall better than lankier players.

My conclusion is, at their peak, both were roughly just as decisive. Which is what greatness is all about.

The Goat debate wasn't decided by Ronaldo's Euro victory why then do Messi fans bully others to accept the Goat debate after Messi finally won international trophies 5 years later.

Fans can be crazy. :lol:
1. What about playmaking? Messi has always been levels above in that department.

2. What about team play? Ronaldo is a selfish footballer who pretty much plays for the glory hence his goal stats. Messi is a team player but still scores at a similar rate and at his peak at an even higher rate.

3. If short players are great dribblers, than why cant other short players dribble like Messi? There are and have been many shorties.

4. You mention Portugal Euro win. Ronaldo individually was quite average in that tournament. Messi has been player of the tournament 4 to 5 times with Argentina and was POTT in Qatar.

5. In short, the only department Ronaldo influences in his teams is the goals, by of course scoring them. Messi influences the entire attack, he can run games especially in his younger years and makes others around him better
 

Pickle85

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Messi still the best player in the world at age 35
he won the world cup & best player award & on his way to win his 8th ballon d'or

but still delusional ronaldo's fanboys saying his game declined


for the goat debate

Messi
Maradona
Pele
Ronaldo phenomeno
Cruyff
Zidane
Baggio
Romario
Roberto Carlos
Rivaldo


if we talking about performance overall & technique & skills

Cristiano isn't better than any of those players at all ...... fact
:lol: :lol: :lol:
 

GhastlyHun

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I saw a TikTok video, not sure if parody but they're hoping Cristiano plays two seasons in Saudi (Wins the Asian Champions League), moves back to Madrid to partner Mbappe, wins the UCL by finishing as the top scorer in league and Europe - oh and wins the 2026 World Cup.. He then moves to the MLS to retire.

The **** of CR7 is fecking bizarre. Maybe the weirdest I've come across.
I wonder how large the overlap of followership is between Cristiano and Andrew Small Dick Energy.
 

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What a beautiful writing and story!

Messi's suitcase:
On Saturday mornings in 2003, Catalonia’s TV3 was broadcasting live the matches of Barça’s youth teams. And in the chats of Argentine emigrants, two questions were frequently asked: how to make ‘dulce de leche’ by boiling cans of condensed milk, and at what time the fifteen-year-old boy from Rosario who scored goals in every game played.

In the 2003–2004 season, Lionel Messi played thirty-seven matches and scored thirty-five goals: the morning rating on Catalan TV on Saturdays was higher than at night. People were already talking about ‘aquest nen’ in the hairdressers, in the bars, and in the stands of Camp Nou.

The only one who didn’t talk was him: in the post-match interviews, the teenager answered all the questions with a ‘yes’, ‘no’ or ‘thank you’, and then looked down. We Argentine emigrants would have preferred a chatty guy, but here was a good thing: when he put together a sentence, he swallowed the s’s and said: ‘ful’ instead of ‘falta’.

We discovered, with great relief, that he was one of us, one of those who had the suitcase unpacked.

There were two kinds of immigrants: those who kept the suitcase in the closet as soon as they arrived in Spain, said ‘vale’, ‘tío’ and ‘hostias’. And those of us who had the suitcase unpacked kept the traditions, such as ‘mate’ or ‘yeísmo’. We said ‘yuvia’, we said ‘caye’.

Time began to pass. Messi became the undisputed 10 of Barça. The Leagues, the King’s Cups, and the Champions League came. And both he and us, the immigrants, knew that the accent was the hardest thing to hold on to.

It was hard for us all to keep saying ‘gambeta’ instead of ‘regate’, but at the same time, we knew that it was our final trench. And Messi was our leader in that battle. The kid who didn’t talk kept our way of talking alive.
So, all of a sudden, we were not only enjoying the best player we had ever seen, but we were also monitoring him to make sure he didn’t slip a Spanish slang in interviews.

In addition to his goals, we celebrated that, in the locker room, he always had his ‘termo’ and ‘mate’. Suddenly he was the most famous human being in Barcelona but, just like us, he never stopped being an Argentinian in another country.

His Argentinian flag at the celebrations of every European Cup. His attitude when he went to the Olympic Games to win gold for Argentina without his club’s permission. His Christmas always spent in Rosario, even though he had to play in January at Camp Nou. Everything he did was a wink for us, for those of us who, in 2000, had arrived with him in Barcelona.

It is difficult to explain how much he made our lives happier for those of us who lived far from home. How he took us out of the boredom of a monotonous society and gave us a sense of purpose. How he helped us not to lose our orientation Messi made us happy in such a serene and natural way, and so much our own, that when the insults from Argentina began to arrive, we could not understand it.

‘Cold chested’. ¹

‘You only care about money.’
‘Stay there’.
‘You don’t feel the shirt’.
‘You are Galician, not Argentinean’.
‘If you ever quit, think again’.
‘Mercenary’.

I lived fifteen years away from Argentina, and I can’t think of a more horrible nightmare than hearing voices of contempt from the place you love most in the world.

Neither more unbearable pain than hearing, in your son’s voice, the phrase Messi heard from his son Thiago: ‘Dad, why are they killing you in Argentina?’

My breath catches when I think of that phrase from a kid to a father. And I know that an ordinary person would end up overrun by resentment.

That’s why Messi’s resignation in 2016 from the Argentine national team was almost a relief for us immigrants. We couldn’t see him suffer like that, because we knew how much he loved his country and the efforts he made not to break the umbilical cord.

When he resigned, it was as if, all of a sudden, Messi had decided to take his hands out of the fire for a while. Not only his own. We were also burnt by those criticisms.

That’s where, I think, the most unusual event in recent soccer occurred: the afternoon in 2016 when Lionel got tired of the insults and decided to quit, a fifteen-year-old boy wrote him a letter on Facebook that ended with: “Think about staying. But stay to have fun, which is what these people want to take away from you.” Seven years later, Enzo Fernández, the author of the letter, turned out to be Lionel Messi’s revelation player in the World Cup.

Messi returned to the National Team (he said so himself) so that those kids who sent him letters would not believe that giving up in life was an option.

And when he came back, he won everything he was missing and closed the mouths of his detractors. Although some found him “for the first time vulgar” in front of a mic. It was when he said: ‘Qué mirá’, bobo, andá payá’. For us, those who monitored his accent for fifteen years, it was a perfect phrase, because he swallowed all the s’s and his ‘yeísmo’ is still untouched.

We are happy to confirm that he is still the same who helped us to be happy when we were far away.

Now some of us immigrants are back; others remained. And we all enjoyed watching Messi return home with the World Cup in his unpacked suitcase. This epic story would never have happened if the fifteen-year-old Lionel had hidden his suitcase in the closet. If as a kid he had surrendered to the ‘vale’ and the ‘hostia, tío’. But he never forgot his accent or his place in the world.

That is why the whole Humanity wished Lionel to triumph so strongly. No one had ever seen, at the top of the world, a simple man.

And yesterday, as every year, Messi returned from Europe to spend Christmas with his family in Rosario, to say hello to his neighbors. His traditions don’t change.

The only thing that changes is what he brought us in his suitcase.
 

Gehrman

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Not really sure what you wanted to show. Messi is still world class when he's at his best at this age, but in big games and for France Mpabbe is still the toughest to stop. I mean i think Messi is tied with Pelé as the greatest ever, but he's not by default the best ever as he was in his prime. Even on a 1 year contract i think any intelligent manager would go with Mpabbe or Neymer(if not for his injury record).
 

Zehner

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Not really sure what you wanted to show. Messi is still world class when he's at his best at this age, but in big games and for France Mpabbe is still the toughest to stop. I mean i think Messi is tied with Pelé as the greatest ever, but he's not by default the best ever as he was in his prime. Even on a 1 year contract i think any intelligent manager would go with Mpabbe or Neymer(if not for his injury record).
I don't think so. Mbappe requires much more service than Messi or Neymar.
 

Zehner

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He gets the service though.
From who? ;)

Mbappe is obviously great but I don't really get your reasoning when Messi has clearly outperformed Mbappe at club and international level this season. And so far, Neymar has also been better than him for PSG.
 

tom8888sa

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As much praise as Messi has gotten at this World Cup, I also believe that the entire Argentina team displayed a passion and drive we haven't seen before. In terms of sheer drive and willpower, I believe Argentina 2022 is the most impressive of all time. Losing to Saudia Arabia and essentially having to play every match as a KO match all the way to that trilling Final and PK shootout.Every one of those players was trying to win it for not only Argentina but also for Messi.I was watching a reporter interviewing Messi prior to the World Cup and he choked up halfway couldn't even finish because he got so emotional. Another reporter went off script and told Messi all of Argentina loves him and regardless if he wins the Cup or not everyone has him in their hearts. There was no way Argentina was ever going to not win the World Cup, listening to that Telemundo announcer from Argentina announce the Montiel cup winning penalty and it's basically an emotion every player in the squad carried with them from day 1. Still feel surreal