I’d rather blame Dembele for wasting a major chance at 3-0 at the death in Camp Nou as well as Suarez, who should’ve made it 1-1 at Anfield before their collapse unfolded. It’s all fine margins though, if Barca go through against Liverpool they’d have had a walk in the park against Spurs and it would’ve added to his legacy.
He gave Dembele a sitter in the first leg that would have made it 4-0. Scores that and I doubt Liverpool would have progressed that season. It’s easy to say “he needed to score one more goal” but if he puts it on a plate for his team mate and they miss I don’t see how the assister gets the “should have done better” comment.
The season before it happened to Roma
The World Cup still matters. It will always matter I'm afraid. The WC final is the most watched sporting event on the planet. Twice as big as the Super Bowl, the CL final, whatever you want to mention.
Who are these others that you rate higher than Messi?
Agree that it matters, but it's a team sport.
Yeah fair, but when you are talking about the best players of all time, they are usually great across the board, in their bread and butter games and also in the World Cup. It's not an either/or prospect.
It's nice to see we're not the only ones with a stranglehold on remontadas now; Barcelona's put in a fine effort over the last few years.
One of the main differences between Barcelona and the Madrid side that won 3 in a row is that Barcelona just didn’t have as many big game players/personalities in the team, and they often make the difference in the big moments.
Nonsense. Xavi Iniesta and Messi are some of the best big games players of that era. Iniesta is a great example that you don't need be shouting like a madman to have a big on pitch influence.
You contradict yourself. Team sport or not your star player with a free'er role is always expected to do more and take the game by the horns.
Nonsense. The best Barca side won 2 CLs in 3 years and in the one they didn't win, peak Mourinho sneaked past them by parking a jumbo jet in the semi final second leg. So they weren't far off their own 3peat
Haha sorry, I didn't read this. I've just basically repeated what you said. But it's true though. I believe Iniesta is the only player to be man of the match in a Euros final, a World Cup final and a Champions League final. How is that not a big game player?
I’m talking about the Barcelona side post-Xavi & Iniesta.
See above.
Where's the contradiction?
Ah okay so you're comparing Barcelona post their peak with Madrids peak. Makes sense then.I’m talking about the Barcelona side post-Xavi & Iniesta.
See above.
That's what people do. Acknowledge its a team game, but not in Messi's Barca years post iniesta and xavi. Or Acknowledge that managers matter for Barca as well. I can remember a poster in here saying that Ronnie would never let the opposing team put 4 past him. Well Lewandowski did when he knocked out Madrid with 4 goals for dortmund in 1 match. Or when Barca spanked them 5-0 with a Messi masterclass. And well, let's not talk about his mental super powers hasn't prevented us being trashed last season or this one.
Iniesta, Xavi for me is as big as Zidane, but people disagree. People have inherent bias when it comes to sports of "who is better" I agree with you.Haha sorry, I didn't read this. I've just basically repeated what you said. But it's true though. I believe Iniesta is the only player to be man of the match in a Euros final, a World Cup final and a Champions League final. How is that not a big game player?
It's just a big form of bias that people have, there's a lack of evidence in many ways to justify those arguments I feel Messi should have won many more Balon d'ors especially when you look at the years they had, but often who wins a CL gets the Balon d'Or which happened a lot for Ronnie.
Zidane played for less systemic teams like Juventus,France, and Real Madrid, for the most part those teams were more about individual quality than a systemic engine like Tiki Taka.
Has there ever been any other player that's been constantly talked about saving himself months and months in advance for the world cup when he looks lethargic? I frankly can't think of anyone else in football history.
Actually this was one of those matches where he got a goal and a assist but was actually pretty bad.
If he was bad(and im not objecting that) then how would you classify Mbappes performance
He was horrid and selfish.If he was bad(and im not objecting that) then how would you classify Mbappes performance
Well he got a goal and assist as well but he was more dynamic.If he was bad(and im not objecting that) then how would you classify Mbappes performance
At that rate he's going, he has a chance to break the all time assist record for a season.
Is he the top assister of all time? Any site I look at says he is.
Yes he is.
Officially I think he is. But they don't have any official record of it back in the old days (90s or prior), so we probably never know.
By a country mile. There's a chasm between him and 2nd place and he's still assisting at an alarming rate (currently the top assister in the top 5 leagues as seen below). By the time he's done, his assist total will - in all likelihood - never be broken.
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Sorry but I think we weren't watching the same game. He made passes straight into the nearest defender. Was dispossessed easily several times by the defenders and sometimes he lost the ball because the ball bounced off his first touch. He was better later in the game though.
They needed the most scandalous refereeing performance ever to even make the final in 2009, probably 4, if not 5 Chelsea penalties if we had VAR back then; the Pepe red card would not have been given with VAR in 2011.
Total nonsense. All Barcelona had to do in the second leg vs Liverpool was to defend well which they typically did not.
Ofcourse he isn't the player he once was but right now on current form he is one of the best players in the world. The Brest game was a difficult one for PSG, but he played well. You judging his performance from highlights alone means you have an agenda against him. I do agree that he wasn't at his best vs Juventus but other than that, he has been excellent.
The assist wasn't an assist as it was a deflected cross. Mbappe was terrible outside his goal. It feels like his intention this season is to play for himself. In addition he looks clearly Inferior interms of vision and passing compared to the two playmakers alongside him.
Most definitely. I do feel he's trying to be less selfish now and pass more but he just doesn't have that particular skill set and messes up a lot of passes.
I watched him for 90 minutes against Juventus and yesterday not highlights. And no I don't have an agenda against him if you know my post history, I've been one of the Messi fanboys both in this thread and the Messi vs Ronaldo thread. The reason I watch highlights from his games in the ligue 1 is because I don't have the TV subscription to watch that league. And there is no way he's one of the best in world atm. His age has slowed down every aspect of his game.
i think he definitely still is, even if slowed down. Your observations aren't wrong from what I've seen but blown out of proportion. He still has Messi moments during which he casually dribbles three players with no space, he still plays unreal through balls and he's still incredible at forward passing and advancing/accelerating the play between the lines. Easily one of the best in the world, IMO.
He is playing a different game right now. More in the De Bruyne type role with his head up and looking for passes than trying to run through defenses the way he did in his prime.
