Motm as far as I can read.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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I think one thing that has to be mentioned in this argument is that it is a hell of a lot more difficult to "carry" a team in the modern game than it was a generation or two ago due to the pace of the game increasing and the tactics becoming more sophisticated. Roles have become much more specialised and it is very difficult for a player to run games single handedly regardless of their quality.
I'm not saying that Messi is necessarily better than Maradona- indeed when you see Messi refusing to go faster than a gentle jog when his teams are getting beaten, you know Maradona would be tearing the pitch apart trying to affect the result under similar circumstances. But he would find it much more difficult to influence the game in the modern era than he was able to back then (although his willingness to try would in itself probably lift his team).
Great to know he isn’t as age- ing as had been said and still productive against certain teams in Ligue 1 and winning things like the copa America for Argentina.
Argentina is a better team whereas Portugal has better individual players. Both have an outside chance of winning the world cup, but i cannot see either beating two of Brazil/France/Germany/England which they will need to do to win the thing. One off match perhaps, but 2 or more upsets, improbable but then again we saw Greece winning the Euros.
I also do not rate Spain highly
How can this be possible when one has Lisandro Martinez and the other hasn't?
Otamendi, in Sacaloni’s mind, is better, we’ll see if his performance at United change his mind or what.
His next goal has to be to aim for the 400 assists number. It's going to be difficult but if he gets there, it's going to be nearly unbreakable.
Doubt anyone ever heard or cared about this one before. Including Messi.
No one but fanbois care about this stupid stats.
That's fair. IMO those 3 are clearly the 3 greatest ever and the order is debatable. Obviously a WC win helps anyone's case.
Bebestation saying something positive about Messi outside of Barca
Would love for a final decent WC showing.
He's still really fecking good.
Yup, ran the game today and got two more assists. He linked up very well with Mbappe today and has been linking up well with Neymar as well all season. Their attack runs through him even if his goal numbers have now reduced.
Best player on the pitch by a country mile. Mbappe may have scored but the difference in allround play was pretty blooming obvious.
It’s weird how few shots he gets a game,
I think he’d flourish more without mbappe but he’s still an elite playmaker
I think he’d flourish more without mbappe but he’s still an elite playmaker
I want Messi the goalscorer back. He might be a far better version of Messi the playmaker this season there is something
that feels wrong when Messi isn't scoring.
that feels wrong when Messi isn't scoring.
Have a feeling Messi doesn't care that much about these sort of stats. He's probably fixated on the WC and CL.
Unless I didn't watch the highlights correctly, he skied 1 or 2 chances in the box. Agreed that he doesn't get many shots from his role and position compared to before, but Im pretty sure he has license to shoot when he wants to.
He doesn't get the "easy chances" rather has to rely on shooting from dista
I think at this age it’s unrealistic to ask him to be goalscorer. Being a good playmaker is also good thing, at least he is still relevant and important to his team.
I know it's just sad he's not Messi the freak anymore despite having a good start to the season for his role and she.
A matter of time. It's not unrealistic.
He now has to play with an egotistical no 9 to whom all the easy chances fall. If Mbappe doesn't start, he will score as evident in the French charity shield and the first match in ligue 1 this season. But given his ability, Messi can find a way around this.
I actually think Messi himself loves his current role. atm he's on top of the assist table along with Neymar, both with 6 assist already.
This literally never happens in the World Cup. The Euros is a much easier tournament to win.
I don't think he cares about numbers in general. He's regularly given up penalty kicks, free kicks, and chances to teammates and everything he has done indicates he cares very little about production totals.
But that doesn't mean we can't sit back after the guy's retirement and marvel at those numbers (even if he himself doesn't care that much about them).
Last night's 2 assists make it 4 in the last 2 matches and he has the most assists out of anyone in the top 5 leagues for this calendar year.
Hard to see Mbappe not starting most of the games, as he is lot younger and fitter, will also have to compete with likes of Haaland for Ballon D'or in future, he will make sure himself scoring most of their goals for as many as possible.
Actually I think Messi is fine with trying to help Mpabbe win the Ballon D'or. Of course if they crash out of the CL early like last season, its not going to happen bar a great world cup. It's him and Haaland now.
Mbappe will start 99% of games when fit. But Messi will shine regardless as long as fully fit and managed properly (due yo his age). I genuinely believe he has the talent that can blow anyone away without even playing for the goals like he has done all his career.
Ofcourse he is team player. In 2015/16 he helped Suarez win the pichichi, he probably doesnt give as much attention to the individual stuff as Mbappe. But as I said I already said, if he keeps fit, he can outshine anyone without actually aiming to do that. He just has to play at his best and that is a level above anyone else's best.
Despite the fact that Messi had the highest rating against Brest, watching the highlight footage of that game, and seeing him against Juventus where he was fairly invisible. I feel it's kind of indisputable at this point that he's played and still plays as a attacking midfielder at this point, but imo as a Messi fan(meaning a fan of a player I think is the greatest of his generation) that he's really finished at this point. He can still have this ability to have the ball glued to his feet but it's in slow motion now. Like Bruno he tries a lot of high risk forward passes that don't come off most of time, he can't beat players remotely like he used too and when he does get a chance to shoot it rarely comes off and he used to be almost the best finisher in the world even though I know he has to resort to mostly shots outside the penalty box. Everything about him seems so much more clumsy now, just like the other guy. Even though his goal/assist metric is good for a attacking midfielder, he doesn't pass the eye test for prime Messi which isn't a shock I guess, but I would be very surprised if he had a iconic world cup this year.
Then you watch his Finalissima highlights and you wonder if it's all part of a gameplan for Messi to assist both Neymar and Mbappe, which is what's actually happening, while Messi doesn't run too much to prevent himself for the WC.
I run 10 km everyday in poor health at 35. I don't believe in this energy conservation bullshit unless he does it a few weeks leading up to the WC. Otherwise it's just an excuse for poor fitness, stamina or laziness.
Argentina could win the World Cup. I'm sure he will run for them.
Argentina can grind out 1-nil wins.
If Argentina win many will consider him the greatest ever if he also has a good tournament.
Argentina can grind out 1-nil wins.
If Argentina win many will consider him the greatest ever if he also has a good tournament.
I consider him the greatest ever already. 7 games at international won't change my mind.
Club football is much stronger than international football, if you can win 5 champions leagues and provide an assist or goal pretty much every game and do it for 15 years+ year on year then I don't care about 7 games.
Statistically 7 games out of 983 games he's played means nothing it's 0.7% of his playing career (up until now).
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7 of the most important, high pressure, crunch games do matter to some of us though.
Think of all the champions league finals Messi has played in. In 3 of his champions league wins with Barcelona, imagine he fell short each time. You wouldn't just call those "3 games" and it would have had a difference.
This is personally why I don’t rate Messi as high as others.
I saw too many CL games where Barcelona got knocked out winning the first match 3-0 but losing the 2nd match 4-0 at home to teams like Liverpool.
I just felt all he needed to do was have one more goal in those matches but it kind of never arrived.
I saw it way too many times after the Xaviesta period of Barcelona.
Weird, as it happened once.
It's a team sport which is what people don't realise when they say stuff like "he didn't get over the line". In the two ties vs Liverpool he destroyed them in the first leg and created some great chances in the second. Its not like he's a paocher like halaand sat in the penalty area waiting for a ball to drop. He's expected to do much more. Barcelona got completely overrun as a collective.
Agree but we see it for all team sports, you can be frozen out of the game if the other team tactically performs for 90 minutes.
Freezing out one player is sometimes quite easy. You can stop them turning, stop them getting the ball in general.
I don't think any football player on earth can carry a team every game for 90 minutes if they're beaten tactically.
E.g. if you know a player like De Jong will feed Messi and be able to play balls down the line you can chase Messi and step up when he tries to shield the ball, or you can also stop De Jong turning. You can also add numbers in the midfield and just try and freeze out the most creative players.
It doesn't work as well when you have a team like Madrid who have Kroos, Modric and Casemiro (not there now) who can all play those balls. The same for Barca when they had Xavi Iniesta and Busquets, they'll just play it round you. For a player who can win matches on his own you still need the team to perform. You still need to receive the ball in good positions. And that team can still double or triple up on you across the pitch.
A very strong Bayern side for example can beat Barcelona, Madrid, City even If they aren't as strong that year. If they have a good midfield and defence, it beats an individual player.
CR7, Messi, Maradona, Pele would all struggle if they are just man marked, balls are stopped from coming into them. The World Cup I think we will see but it'll most likely be a team like France who win.
I blame Messi for Barcelona's defense collapsing. Rather than blaming the goalkeeper, the defenders, the midfelders, the manager, of course I blame Messi.