Lionel Messi | PSG Watch

Black Adder

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3) In a Cristiano-X-Messi frontline, who would have been the GOAT 9 between them. Alternatively, in a Cristiano-Messi-X frontline, who would you want on the right?
Rooney in all combinations.
 

Acrobat7

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Interesting topic. To compliment Messi you need someone who can both finish the chances he creates and also link up with him with those quick combination passes. To compliment CR7 you need someone to put it on a plate for him for his superior off the ball. Offensively the obvious choice IMO will be Van Basten, who was a Benzema on steroids. However you need someone with high workrate to cover both messi and cr7 laziness and I am not so sure if both benzema or Van Basten can do that
Suarez
 

amolbhatia50k

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Both Suarez and Rooney are great shouts. Probably the best two options from the players I've seen
 

Nou_Camp99

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Very close to signing for Inter Miami. He'd leave PSG at the end of the European season.
 

berbatrick

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1) Who would you rather have at LW? Peak Messi or peak Cristiano? I don't think there's a definitive answer.
Ronaldo, without much hesitation.
Messi on the LW is going to .... drift in and play uncomfortable passes to where he just came from? Cross???? Make unnatural dribbles just to recycle the ball? Ignore his left foot when shooting???????
 

Chief123

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I didn’t think the day would arrive but it has (and for some time now)…I no longer get excited or watch Messi in anticipation of being entertained anymore. In fact, watching him play is very underwhelming now as he’s clearly many levels below his peak.
 

Chief123

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1) Who would you rather have at LW? Peak Messi or peak Cristiano? I don't think there's a definitive answer.
The answer couldn’t be more definitive.

Peak Messi never played LW. In fact Messi has hardly ever played LW in his whole career.
Ronaldo at his peak was when he played LW.
 

NoPace

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The answer couldn’t be more definitive.

Peak Messi never played LW. In fact Messi has hardly ever played LW in his whole career.
Ronaldo at his peak was when he played LW.
That's not really a definitive answer. It's a forward position and it's Messi. I think there's a debate, even if Cristiano is your #1 LW of all time. It's probably Cristiano, but Messi would find a way to make it close.
 

NoPace

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Interesting topic. To compliment Messi you need someone who can both finish the chances he creates and also link up with him with those quick combination passes. To compliment CR7 you need someone to put it on a plate for him for his superior off the ball. Offensively the obvious choice IMO will be Van Basten, who was a Benzema on steroids. However you need someone with high workrate to cover both messi and cr7 laziness and I am not so sure if both benzema or Van Basten can do that
Van Basten is before my time. Benzema on steroids I assume means he liked hanging out on the touchline for much of the game.
 

NoPace

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I think the GOAT 9 for those 2 would have been prime Suarez to be honest, worked extremely hard , was unselfish (mostly) and extremely creative (plus scored boat loads of goals).

He's not very liked on here for obvious reasons but I would say he's pretty much the best example of a modern day striker.
Yeah, he and Rooney seem like good choices and Suarez was the better player.

Raul is probably out because he's left-footed like Messi and you lose that ball Messi can play between the LB and LCB, and Raul never really played alone much, but he seems like an intriguing choice.

It's probably Pele because he seems to have been a 9.5 type who was great as either a 9 or a 10, but well before my time.

Surprised no Harry Kane shouts. Drops deep to play in Ronaldo, can combine with Messi, a threat in the air and a better finisher than say Suarez or Roney.
 

NoPace

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From those I've seen, Henry. Stretches the pitch, giving Messi space and an option in behind, while being the perfect compliment for Ronaldo with his penchant for drifting to and running the left channel coupled with his disinterest in taking up traditional positions in the box enabling Cristiano to do so.
Henry may well be the answer but i'm the cautious type football-wise, and it seems too risky to pick someone whose best play occurred with Bergkamp more central. But given a year or 2 to play together he's an intriguing choice for sure.
 

sherrinford

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Henry may well be the answer but i'm the cautious type football-wise, and it seems too risky to pick someone whose best play occurred with Bergkamp more central. But given a year or 2 to play together he's an intriguing choice for sure.
To a reasonable extent Messi would replicate what Bergkamp brought to the side - servicing Henry with the quality and ingenuity of his passing. Messi was the most creative passer in the world for an extended period of time, and even playing off the right on paper he gravitated to the same area of the pitch Bergkamp operated in.
 

Oly Francis

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Agreed, despite being capable of moments of magic, he just doesn’t have the legs.
What a career though and great for the MLS to still get a decent enough version of him.
Yeah, he's unfortunately too inconsistent from a physical standpoint. One day he'll look like a very good version of himself, the other he'll struggle to get rid of a defender. It'll be a hit or miss this season for PSG in the CL. If it's a good night for him, his talent will make up for his total lack of defense but otherwise, it's just not good enough and makes the team totally unbalanced. Same thing for argentina even if the put De Paul as his bodyguard to make sure he's free to roam. The downside is, De Paul is absolutely terrible so far.
 

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Yeah, he's unfortunately too inconsistent from a physical standpoint. One day he'll look like a very good version of himself, the other he'll struggle to get rid of a defender. It'll be a hit or miss this season for PSG in the CL. If it's a good night for him, his talent will make up for his total lack of defense but otherwise, it's just not good enough and makes the team totally unbalanced. Same thing for argentina even if the put De Paul as his bodyguard to make sure he's free to roam. The downside is, De Paul is absolutely terrible so far.
I’ve watched every single PsG game and he was the best player so far. Maybe along with Neymar and by far the best argentinean. Don’t know what you mean by saying he’s not good enough.
 

NoPace

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To a reasonable extent Messi would replicate what Bergkamp brought to the side - servicing Henry with the quality and ingenuity of his passing. Messi was the most creative passer in the world for an extended period of time, and even playing off the right on paper he gravitated to the same area of the pitch Bergkamp operated in.
Yeah but you'd have Cristiano on the left and Henry running down the right half-space instead of the left one, so if the idea is Messi is basically a 10 then maybe you want peak Van Persie in front of Henry? 86 in 112 in the Prem, 30 in 34 for the Dutch over his best 4 years. Henry was 103 in 139 for Arsenal and 25 in 44 for France in his best 4 years, so basically a push but slight edge for Van Persie.

This would be heresy to Arsenal fans but I think it'd be close.

Can't believe I genuinely think it might be Kane. Even if his speed isn't so good, when he does go out right he can hit crosses to Cristiano at the back post, genuinely think he could get to De Bruyne's level at them if he spent more time there, which he might to make space for Messi coming inside. And everything else bar pressing he'd be great at.
 

sherrinford

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Yeah but you'd have Cristiano on the left and Henry running down the right half-space instead of the left one, so if the idea is Messi is basically a 10 then maybe you want peak Van Persie in front of Henry? 86 in 112 in the Prem, 30 in 34 for the Dutch over his best 4 years. Henry was 103 in 139 for Arsenal and 25 in 44 for France in his best 4 years, so basically a push but slight edge for Van Persie.

This would be heresy to Arsenal fans but I think it'd be close.

Can't believe I genuinely think it might be Kane. Even if his speed isn't so good, when he does go out right he can hit crosses to Cristiano at the back post, genuinely think he could get to De Bruyne's level at them if he spent more time there, which he might to make space for Messi coming inside. And everything else bar pressing he'd be great at.
Nah, Henry would be moving to the left from the centre forward spot and freeing Ronaldo - like a Benzema that actually wants to and thrives off of running the left channel, as Henry did while enabling Pires to make outside-to-in runs at Arsenal.

On the right, I envisioned an aggressive overlapping fullback behind Messi as he moves inside. Henry isn't the best fit I can think of for Messi to play off in isolation, but I can't think of anyone better suited to playing ahead of both Ronaldo and him.

To be honest, Kane is a terrible theoretical choice in my opinion. Obviously good with his back to goal, but he always wants to come towards the ball. Ronaldo was better playing off of and around a striker who stretched the pitch, but at least penetrative off the ball running was a major feature of his play so Kane would facilitate his natural game to an extent - with regards to Messi he just gets in the way and blunts his impact. Ibrahimovic was a similar, and superior, player who's movements and positioning did not mesh well with Messi, hence the two of them not working in the same Barcelona team.
 

NoPace

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Nah, Henry would be moving to the left from the centre forward spot and freeing Ronaldo - like a Benzema that actually wants to and thrives off of running the left channel, as Henry did while enabling Pires to make outside-to-in runs at Arsenal.

On the right, I envisioned an aggressive overlapping fullback behind Messi as he moves inside. Henry isn't the best fit I can think of for Messi to play off in isolation, but I can't think of anyone better suited to playing ahead of both Ronaldo and him.

To be honest, Kane is a terrible theoretical choice in my opinion. Obviously good with his back to goal, but he always wants to come towards the ball. Ronaldo was better playing off of and around a striker who stretched the pitch, but at least penetrative off the ball running was a major feature of his play so Kane would facilitate his natural game to an extent - with regards to Messi he just gets in the way and blunts his impact. Ibrahimovic was a similar, and superior, player who's movements and positioning did not mesh well with Messi, hence the two of them not working in the same Barcelona team.
Good point with Ibra, and the attacking RB makes sense.
 

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Depends what this means really.
This season he's one behind Neymar (who himself is having a brilliant season) on 26 G+A's. He's ahead of Mbappe who is on 24 G+A's. If Messi, who is on his last legs, is in front of Mbappe and 1 statistic behind Neymar, that really says it all.

That's without factoring in 2022 as a calendar year, which puts him above Benzema, Neymar and Mbappe. At 35. It may not be 2011 Messi, but last legs it most definitely isn't.
 
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This season he's one behind Neymar (who himself is having a brilliant season) on 26 G+A's. He's ahead of Mbappe who is on 24 G+A's. If Messi, who is on his last legs, is in front of Mbappe and 1 statistic behind Neymar, that really says it all.

That's without factoring in 2022 as a calendar year, which puts him above Benzema, Neymar and Mbappe. At 35. It may not be 2011 Messi, but last legs it most definitely isn't.
Are we just gonna pretend those three aren’t playing in a weaker league and with the most dominant league side in Europe :confused:
 

Hoof The Ball

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Are we just gonna pretend those three aren’t playing in a weaker league and with the most dominant league side in Europe :confused:
It's relevant because the argument is relative.

If Mbappe and Neymar are in their prime and playing in a dominant side in a weaker league, then all the more then that Mbappe and Neymar's stats ought to be superior to an ageing Messi. That Messi is equal to, and indeed, ahead of those two, is either an indication that Mbappe and Neymar are underperforming relative to opposition quality, or, Messi is performing exceedingly well to keep up with them two.

But this argument about Messi in weaker leagues is passé. A quick look at Messi's stats vs. the PL "big six" in his career conclusively pleads the case with evidence that it makes little difference what environment he plays in. Statistically he gets it done wherever he goes.
 

Hoof The Ball

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Including this current World Cup to be fair to him.

I've no doubt this thread will be active later if he gets knocked out but he's done well so far.
Yep!

"He didn't do well vs. Saudi, though."

Had the ball in the net twice (one disallowed) and assisted another (again disallowed) and Argentina had an on-side goal ruled out. Even without that we're still talking about 2 goals and 2 assists in 2 games. Loss or no loss, can't argue he's lacked influence thus far.
 

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I was thinking - is there anybody in football under more pressure then Lionel Messi at the moment? He is basically Argentina - where as all the other big names (Mbappe, Ronaldo, Kane, Neymar) share the load a bit more with the rest of the squad... well it feels like they do anyway.
 

Gehrman

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This season he's one behind Neymar (who himself is having a brilliant season) on 26 G+A's. He's ahead of Mbappe who is on 24 G+A's. If Messi, who is on his last legs, is in front of Mbappe and 1 statistic behind Neymar, that really says it all.

That's without factoring in 2022 as a calendar year, which puts him above Benzema, Neymar and Mbappe. At 35. It may not be 2011 Messi, but last legs it most definitely isn't.
Mpabbe has showed up In big games mostly while Messi has mainly been average or poor. It's why currently for big games I would put my money on Mpabbe rather than the 35 year old version that we have.
 

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I was thinking - is there anybody in football under more pressure then Lionel Messi at the moment? He is basically Argentina - where as all the other big names (Mbappe, Ronaldo, Kane, Neymar) share the load a bit more with the rest of the squad... well it feels like they do anyway.
I would say Messi is under the biggest amount of pressure but really so far this Argentina team has massively under performed. They are usual as a team far better than what they’ve shown so far.
 

RacingClub

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I was thinking - is there anybody in football under more pressure then Lionel Messi at the moment? He is basically Argentina - where as all the other big names (Mbappe, Ronaldo, Kane, Neymar) share the load a bit more with the rest of the squad... well it feels like they do anyway.
As someone who resides in Argentina I can guarantee you that he has the weight of the Nation on his shoulders.

It's really unfair to be honest but that's how things are.


I would say Messi is under the biggest amount of pressure but really so far this Argentina team has massively under performed. They are usual as a team far better than what they’ve shown so far.
Yup agree with you here.

DiMaria and DePaul especially vs their performances at the Copa, if they don't get into some sort of form soon (and continue to start) I wouldn't even have Argentina as favorites to get through vs Denmark (if both win today).
 

Zehner

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The Musiala thread reminded me of this brillant video that was quite popular a few years ago, thought I share it:


Maybe my favorite Messi video
 

Threesus

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Praying for a lewandowski dagger tonight. Would be hilarious to see Messi crash out.
 
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