I'd agree his passing's been very good ever since he first broke through into that Barca team, but it was always a cut below the best in my view. The vision was always there and with his tiki-taka upbringing his short passing particularly in close spaces was unsurprisingly excellent but compared to the rest of the game it always seemed somewhat reserved, he was still hugely creative but more so through opening up the space with his dribbling and then slipping it through rather than genuine outright brilliant passing, in my view. This might be the season that's beginning to change, and if Argentina are intent on playing him in the deeper role because they can't find another way to make that team work then him elevating his passing game could make all the difference in terms of tying that team together. He's always been a creator but it's another thing entirely to be a playmaker and if he's capable of making that transition then that just makes him that bit more unstoppable.
Lionel Messi
- Thread starter cesc's_mullet
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Could you him being used as a regista when his pace wanes, brwned?
I'm not entirely sure but from what I know that's a fairly broad term isn't it? Could mean anything from Pirlo to Rooney in my interpretation if it. I don't think he'll ever become a deep-lying playmaker sort, that kind of balance and dribbling doesn't go away regardless of speed and there's no reason not to make full use of it high up the pitch. Can definitely see him dropping deeper than he is now though yeah, probably into the role he played for Argentina at the Copa America with a hard working midfield behind him. And I can certainly see him becoming more passing-orientated as the years go on and it'll only add to his legend if he can be the one dictating the tempo and being the provider for the creative players.
It really is, him and Cristiano are 2 phenomenon in terms of consistency.Messi is also unbelievably fit and resistant to injuries.
Which goes to show that sometimes, in the teen years, injuries are just something you sustain more often. Which I find encouraging... I hope the Da Silvas, for example, show the same sort of resurgence to long bouts of fitness.
Agree with all of that. He's too great a tallent to not find his passing game. I thought from early that he'd be a playmaker but he because such a prolific goal scorer that you can't really be both, at least not to their fullest effect. Generally a player will improve their passing as they get older, it's strange. People have written off his ability to get better before and everyone would agree he's not been quite his outstanding best but even with his level dropping off he's still a cut above. At 24 it's very interesting to see just how he'll adapt, develop etc as he reaches his "peak" years.
It's because so few teams progress regularly in the knockouts. United are at least making the quarter finals and Barca have gone all the way to the semis at least a lot of times with Messi.
42 goals and 20 assists in 40 app
How much more can he add to his tally.
How much more can he add to his tally.
Shit at passing though.
I'll be anyone he won't score more than three goals
with his head.
with his head.
he is very worried about that, in fact, all barcelona areOnly aspect...
How about improving on his atrocious penalty taking record?
That assist count might be 21 if that pass to Xavi counts?
That would be flattering tbf. Assist counts are a bit weird though but it doesn't really matter if it counts or not. Won't make any difference at all at the end of the day.
Only 13 behind to become the all time top scorer for Barcelona. At the age of 24!
I'll focus more on the fact that he's already 2nd all time scorer in the league. He's 2nd there, but still about 50 goals behind number 1.
They didn't have as many European games back in the day.
Does Cal? not have 1 good word to say about Messi, ever?
I've said plenty of good words about him before, his 4 goals last night was a great performance. In fact I've said many times that he deserved his Ballon D'or in 11 & 09.
However, his penalty taking does leave a lot to be desired for. It gives the impression that he really cares about goalscoring records if he continues taking them. I'm sure there are others in that Barca team who are much better at taking penalties than he is.
They should be, a penalty conversion rate in the mid-70% range is simply not good enough.he is very worried about that, in fact, all barcelona are
When he can score and create so many from open play i doubt that concerns him too much.
Except for the fact his penalty taking has already cost them a few points this season...
Thats mental.
and he still has 40 goals from open play... and has created 20.. thats quite an insane record he's got going there.Except for the fact his penalty taking has already cost them a few points this season...
No denying that at all... but surely having him take the penalties isn't the greatest idea...
Assists are a weird stat as they do not give you the entire picture but I think when you have around 20 of them and the season is not close to be over, it's fair to say that the player is extremely creative offensively.
That's insane. And to think how many more years he has ahead of him, it's mind boggling to think how many goals he could end his career on.
dont worry mate, if messi ever starts excelling at taking penalties, Cal? will come with "his hair style is a disgrace" or "he can't make a decent coffee"
Its a sign of how good he's become that poor Cal? can only come up with "penalties" as a credible anti-Messi argument.
tbh Cal has a valid point.
At some point a penalty is gonna come down to him as the 10th penalty taker in a shootout....prolly the world cup final in Brazil....then Argentina will only have a 70% chance of winning the thing, the best odds they've ever had, even when in the final, England had Joe Hart sent off for dissent and Rooney pulled up injured straight after the third sub in the 57th minute, it was still 40/60 in Englands favour.
At some point a penalty is gonna come down to him as the 10th penalty taker in a shootout....prolly the world cup final in Brazil....then Argentina will only have a 70% chance of winning the thing, the best odds they've ever had, even when in the final, England had Joe Hart sent off for dissent and Rooney pulled up injured straight after the third sub in the 57th minute, it was still 40/60 in Englands favour.
I don't quite understand how someone can be anti-Messi, tbh. He's nowhere near infallible, but on TOP of his remarkable football ability, he seems a very honest, down to earth professional.
He's not really renowned for diving (I'm not saying he has never dived but you get the drift), he doesn't cheat, he doesn't feign injury, he's probably the most fouled or kicked footballer - but he just seems to get up and get on with it, he scores and sets up goals (though he is a bit more selfish these days, then say, 2 years ago) and generally, he mesmerizes and produces entertainment of the highest order.
Basically, he's the best footballer on the planet, bar none. I don't think someone could have picked a worse player to dislike, frankly.
There's a point in liking "he who must not be named in this thread" and appreciating what he did for our club but to take it to the insanely obssessed levels where it kinds of impacts your joy at watching Messi is frankly, ridiculous and a bit childish.
I enjoy watching them both, though I hate the fact that both of their clubs are currently stronger than ours. But to be blunt, Messi is undisputedly TBPITW.
He's not really renowned for diving (I'm not saying he has never dived but you get the drift), he doesn't cheat, he doesn't feign injury, he's probably the most fouled or kicked footballer - but he just seems to get up and get on with it, he scores and sets up goals (though he is a bit more selfish these days, then say, 2 years ago) and generally, he mesmerizes and produces entertainment of the highest order.
Basically, he's the best footballer on the planet, bar none. I don't think someone could have picked a worse player to dislike, frankly.
There's a point in liking "he who must not be named in this thread" and appreciating what he did for our club but to take it to the insanely obssessed levels where it kinds of impacts your joy at watching Messi is frankly, ridiculous and a bit childish.
I enjoy watching them both, though I hate the fact that both of their clubs are currently stronger than ours. But to be blunt, Messi is undisputedly TBPITW.
some fans cant get over the fact that they beat us twice in cl finals
but they don't realize that losing against a great team doesnt diminish our own value,
i mean, i rather lose against barcelona than against porto
My point exactly. Doesn't matter if that pass counts as an assist or not. He won't be judged by it and he'd still lead the charts.
fair point marco.
The current Barcelona team will be seen among the greatest football teams of all time.
no shame losing to them. But I am more interested in Fergie's comments that we are about two players away from them.
cant wait
Think it's more down to fanboism or Real Madrid fan.
No excuse. You can prefer Sneijder or Xavi or Ronaldo but still acknowledge Messi to be the best.
Every player will miss penalties. Generally i'd say he's an excellent penalty taker, he hasn't exactly missed the highest profile penalties going. If he misses one in a CL Semi/CL Final or World Cup it'd be a different story but his overall record is probably pretty good.
Maradona himself missed his fair share.
Who else should take penalties? Villa takes them if he's on the pitch doesn't he?
i've seen maradona, platini and zico miss crucial penalties
in fact, even Cristiano Ronaldo missed one in the CL final against chelsea
and no one will dare to say that CR doesn't know how to take penalties
fergie knows what he is talking aboutfair point marco.
The current Barcelona team will be seen among the greatest football teams of all time.
no shame losing to them. But I am more interested in Fergie's comments that we are about two players away from them.
cant wait
we were very unlucky, we had one of the greatest teams ever at the same time Barcelona had one a bit better
we could have five Champions League cups now, but we shared our best team with barcelona's best team and, sadly, they are a bit better
He missed one in the semis against Barca too.
Bottler.
indeed, bottler
few players i have seen with such a winning desire
In his book there are quite a few occasions when Maradona speaks about missing penalties.
Cristiano also missed in the CL Semi against Barcelona. It doesnt matter if the team wins but if the team doesnt...
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