Lionel Messi

[wub1234]

Lol the irony of that after those paragraphs.

This is the sort of juvenile response that I've come to expect, just generally in life.

There is nothing in my post that is even contentious.

You are just determined to believe that Ronaldo is better than Messi. You have the right to do that, but you cannot then claim that other people aren't objective!

 

[Rossa]

Here are 77 long range passes:


If you want to see more of his passing, look here:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=messi+passes

And you could argue that this is the weakest part of his game. He's a natural winger and forward, inarguably the best dribbler of his generation, and arguably the best ever, he's scored over 600 goals, yet he can drop back in front of the back four, and start pinging the ball around better than Xavi ever did. The guy is a f*cking freak.

If you went to Scholes and asked him "who is the better passer, you or Messi?", I can absolutely guarantee 100% he would say Messi. He makes passes that for any other player would be their pass of the season, or possibly career, virtually every game.

At this stage, no-one should question Messi. You could see last night that professionals who had played at a very high level were simply in awe of him and what he can do. He is a different class to anyone else. I believe that he's a different class to anyone else that has played the game. I saw quite a bit of Maradona, but Messi has more to his game, a more complete skillset, is better at the constituent parts of football, scores far more goals, and is almost inordinately more consistent.

It's almost insulting for me that some people consider Maradona better, when he scored 153 goals in European football and 34 for Argentina, whereas Messi has scored 562 for Barcelona and 65 for Argentina. Maradona had a handful of good seasons, and one strong World Cup, whereas Messi has been astronomically good for Barcelona, year in, year out, for at least 13 seasons, and has actually performed more consistently for Argentina, in a worse team.

Anyone who would question any aspect of his game at his stage either doesn't watch Messi play regularly, doesn't understand football, or is incapable of being objective.

Jesus wept. Yes, I could very well argue that there are aspects of his game that could improve. His overall workrate is actually pretty poor. His defending is not very good, and thus his tackling. He isn't the fastest over distance; he isn't the greatest header in the world, and no way is he as good a long range passer as Scholes. Is he a better passer overall - possibly, but not definetely. Scholes would tell you that Gerrard was a better passer than him. It doesn't make it true. For your video - it's not LONG range passing. It's passing on the final third. To me, that is not long range passing. That is incisive world class last third passing, where he is better than anyone else. His passing from deep is not to Scholes' level, which is understandable given that he hasn't played there. Do you honestly think he pings them like Scholes used to do?

Insulting to you? Are you his manager, brother or father? If not, I would reconsider the personal ties you commit. He is arguably the greatest of all time, no doubt there, mate - alongside some other greats.

 

[Rossa]

This is the sort of juvenile response that I've come to expect, just generally in life.

There is nothing in my post that is even contentious.

You are just determined to believe that Ronaldo is better than Messi. You have the right to do that, but you cannot then claim that other people aren't objective!

He never said Ronaldo is better though - don't think he even mentioned him.

The problem with your post is that you objectively, might I add, argue that Messi has no flaws to his game and cannot improve on anything in his game. Is that objevtive reasoning? I argued that his long range passing is lofty and a little slow, not lacking in accuracy, and you go all defensive. He doesn't have to be the best at everything to be the best. I think, maybe, Varane is a better defender, for instance - and maybe, a small maybe in your mind, Ronaldo is a better header? Perhaps Bale is a little faster?

 

[RedRonaldo]

I never understand why Modric won FIFA player of year while Messi not even in top 3. Its country miles difference in quality, all Modric did is perform better for few games in WC, and he didn't even win it.

 

[Needham]

I have a good friend who's half Argentinian. He tells me that his mates were watching the game and were absolutely seething (Why the f@ck cannot he do this for the national team).

Massive performance from the greatest player from our era. I hate the term GOAT. It's absolutely impossible to compare his accomplishments to let's say Maradona in the late eighties or Pele at his prime. Totally different training methods, training, nutrition and game planning. And dont even get me started on the way skill players were mercilessly hacked to pieces back in the day.

He has always been surrounded by absolutely brilliant players at Barca. He's a genius but still that has to help.

 

[2mufc0]

This is the sort of juvenile response that I've come to expect, just generally in life.

There is nothing in my post that is even contentious.

You are just determined to believe that Ronaldo is better than Messi. You have the right to do that, but you cannot then claim that other people aren't objective!

Again the hypocrisy is mind boggling, you say I can't claim people aren't being objective but you did the exact same thing in your propaganda post.

 

[Scroto Baggins]

On another level in that Spurs game, his passing was excellent, hit the post twice, scored twice, constantly found space and drew fouls. May have lost a little acceleration but still far above anyone else on the pitch in that game.

 

[Ishdalar]

Jesus wept. Yes, I could very well argue that there are aspects of his game that could improve. His overall workrate is actually pretty poor. His defending is not very good, and thus his tackling. He isn't the fastest over distance; he isn't the greatest header in the world, and no way is he as good a long range passer as Scholes. Is he a better passer overall - possibly, but not definetely. Scholes would tell you that Gerrard was a better passer than him. It doesn't make it true. For your video - it's not LONG range passing. It's passing on the final third. To me, that is not long range passing. That is incisive world class last third passing, where he is better than anyone else. His passing from deep is not to Scholes' level, which is understandable given that he hasn't played there. Do you honestly think he pings them like Scholes used to do?

Insulting to you? Are you his manager, brother or father? If not, I would reconsider the personal ties you commit. He is arguably the greatest of all time, no doubt there, mate - alongside some other greats.

But the hardest part about what Scholes did isn't to pinpoint the pass to where he wants to, there's a lot of sunday league players that could put you the ball on a bullseye anywhere on the pitch, Scholes was great at it because he saw the space and the runs better than anyone else, that and his passing were the thing that, combined, put him on another level.

Leo, he has enough quality on his left leg to put the ball anywhere on the pitch, be it floating or in a more direct and quick manner, are we going to doubt now the way he sees football? How he finds spaces in the defense and is aware of his teammates positioning/runs too?.

Like you said, we'll probably never see Leo doing what Scholes did because to give a direct, 60M pass to a winger or a striker running behind the defense you have to play deeper than what Leo has played in his entire career, and even if he did play there with Barcelona, that's not a type of pass we go for frequently.

So the debate about who displayed or did it better is always won by Scholes, absolutely, thing is, is it that weird to think that if Messi had to play like that, he could be at the level of Scholes in that regard?

 

[Gio]

I never understand why Modric won FIFA player of year while Messi not even in top 3. Its country miles difference in quality, all Modric did is perform better for few games in WC, and he didn't even win it.

Influential in the business end of the Champions League (again) too.

 

[Zen]

It's harder to do what he did against bigger teams when the bigger teams have a much better talent to nullify Barca as a team due to their not high class talent.

Not sure how hard it is to grasp that sheer amount he's doing is extremely to do when the opposition ramps up and up. As had been said for a while, Barca are so not what they were between 08-15 that it's being seen as "Messi and friends" a lot. They are as a team, similar to Argentina, miles away from him right now.....

His actual performances in a lot of these big games he apparently no shows are actually really good....some aren't mind you, but most are. Just goes ignored unless it wins. Just watch, ignore the result sometimes.

For the record, I think this is a stronger Barca team than the past few years, include the last Neymar year I think, just needs time to click. It's a bit erratic right now. Lot of talent there, youth, and experience. Too good to continually fall into a Messidependence trap.

 

[Sanchez7]

Magical player. His decision making, execution is just perfect. Definitely the best player I have seen.

I am actually planning a trip to Barcelona because I want to see him play live once.

 

[VorZakone]

Magical player. His decision making, execution is just perfect. Definitely the best player I have seen.

I am actually planning a trip to Barcelona because I want to see him play live once.

What if he happens to be shit in the game where you see him live?

 

[Sanchez7]

What if he happens to be shit in the game where you see him live?

Or worse yet, he gets rested . I was checking the schedule yesterday and saw the Classico is soon but the only tickets for sale start at EUR1k

 

[wub1234]

Jesus wept. Yes, I could very well argue that there are aspects of his game that could improve. His overall workrate is actually pretty poor. His defending is not very good, and thus his tackling. He isn't the fastest over distance; he isn't the greatest header in the world, and no way is he as good a long range passer as Scholes.

Messi isn't a defender, so raising his tackling and defending is ludicrous. What other forward is judged on whether or not they can tackle? It's just idiocy to even write that down.

You're talking about a player who led European football in passing, assists, completed dribbles, goals and successful free-kicks last year. Oh, but his workrate isn't good enough! Yeah, he's a liability!

For your video - it's not LONG range passing. It's passing on the final third. To me, that is not long range passing. That is incisive world class last third passing, where he is better than anyone else.

I'm interested to learn that passing the ball over a long distance does not count as long range passing. In the video I linked to Messi does indeed pass the ball over a long distance, with perfect accuracy, numerous times. But the quality of his passing is not in doubt anyway. He's the best passer in the world by some distance, and he creates far more chances that Scholes ever did.

His passing from deep is not to Scholes' level, which is understandable given that he hasn't played there. Do you honestly think he pings them like Scholes used to do?

He is a far better passer than Scholes. Far better. Scholes isn't fit to lace his boots. The reason Scholes made a lot of passes from deep is that he played there because he legs were gone and he couldn't do anything else. Messi is obviously not going to be back there as much because he's the best forward in the world, who produces far more in the final third than any other player. He sees a pass and makes a pass better than anyone else. I've hardly ever seen him miss a raking, crossfield pass. To say that Scholes would be flattered by this comparison is an understatement. If you told him that you think he's a better passer of the ball than Messi, he would laugh in your face.

Again, you wouldn't even be making this comparison for anyone else. You wouldn't say about Ronaldo, well he scores a lot of goals, but he doesn't drop deep and ping the ball about like Scholes and Xavi. Messi does this, AND he's the most productive player in the final third. What he does is unique. No other player has ever done it, or likely will ever do it.

Insulting to you? Are you his manager, brother or father? If not, I would reconsider the personal ties you commit. He is arguably the greatest of all time, no doubt there, mate - alongside some other greats.

It's not insulting to me, it's insulting to him, and what he has produced on the field. Why would I be insulted?

 

[Daysleeper]

Are you a journalist ?

No, a friend and I saved up for a while for this trip. We are from Canada but finally got to see some european football for the first time. Just happened to schedule it where we were seeing Messi, Ronaldo (this Saturday), and Mo Salah in the same week. Fortunately worked out that way.

 

[Daysleeper]

And Messi is comfortably a better passer than scholes at any aspect Jesus Christ

People who think that only see Messi play ten times a year but watched scholes allthe time growing up.

Messi is frightening with the passes he makes, absolutely ridiculous

 

[wub1234]

Again the hypocrisy is mind boggling, you say I can't claim people aren't being objective but you did the exact same thing in your propaganda post.

I think you perhaps misunderstand what propaganda is.

I'm just stating the bleeding obvious. I'm only saying what numerous top level professional footballers and coaches have said, are saying, and said last night. If they read what I'd said, they wouldn't consider it propaganda, or even controversial, they would consider it accurate and reasonable.

It's only people who are butthurt because they can't accept that Messi is, at the very least, a significantly better footballer than Ronaldo who can't accept it. Everyone else simply knows it to be true.

 

[MrEleson]

He's the best passer in the world by some distance

I don’t mind when people say Messi is the best at things but I never really get the exaggerations. Like he’s the best at this “by a distance” or “no-one’s comes anywhere close to him at that.” He might be the best passer in the world but I wouldn’t say by a huge margin. Someone like De Bruyne I would say is on the same level as him at executing final balls and through passes. He’s also a better crosser than Messi.

Similarly, players like Hazard and Neymar are probably on the same level as him at dribbling and currently Hazard might even be better than this version of Messi at it.

He’s not miles ahead of everyone at everything. Some players do run him close in various facets of the game. But obviously what sets him apart is that he’s at least a 9/10 in most things.

 

[Obi-Red-Kenobi]

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I saw a comment insinuating that Scholes was a better passer than Messi. Honestly, I had to check it wasn’t April 1st.

I get the red tinted spectacles, I really do, I also get the Ronaldo love in, which is compulsory on a UTD forum, but Messi’s passing ability is on another level all together.

His passes are incisive, direct, and often under significant pressure, and certainly more often than Scholes would have ever been.

His passes count, they are not sideways, backwards and without purpose, and penetrate defences like no other I’ve seen.

His 250+ assists reflect the importance of his passes, and the effectiveness of his passes, and ultimately how they support his team.

Because Scholes did the odd 50 yard pass, does not mean he is a better passer, or on the same level.

Come on, let’s get real here.

 

[AndyJ1985]

I don’t mind when people say Messi is the best at things but I never really get the exaggerations. Like he’s the best at this “by a distance” or “no-one’s comes anywhere close to him at that.” He might be the best passer in the world but I wouldn’t say by a huge margin. Someone like De Bruyne I would say is on the same level as him at executing final balls and through passes. He’s also a better crosser than Messi.

Similarly, players like Hazard and Neymar are probably on the same level as him at dribbling and currently Hazard might even be better than this version of Messi at it.

He’s not miles ahead of everyone at everything. Some players do run him close in various facets of the game. But obviously what sets him apart is that he’s at least a 9/10 in most things.

Actually what sets him so far apart is that he's a 10/10 for pretty much everything you'd expect from an attacking player, with the exception of heading.

 

[IFC 1905]

Messi has all great conditions, he has the best control, the best dribbling skills (at least at his peak), good speed, agility, his finishing, his passing

Everything is 9/10 at the very least.

But there's something that is 100/10 which is his football IQ. He's the most intelligent player I've ever seen and when he's bad in his head, it's when things does not work and he doesn't show up (which happens rarely). But I've never seen someone who almost, almost always takes the right decision and is 1,2 seconds ahead of everyone. He's a genious. As many people has said, he plays football as if he was watching from the stands or the TV, his pre-scanning of the pitch is amazing, he knows everything and he knows where everyone is.

That's what really sets him appart. You can have the best conditions but if you take bad decisions you're a Di Maria, with good and horrible days.

 

[Raven]

Messi isn't a defender, so raising his tackling and defending is ludicrous. What other forward is judged on whether or not they can tackle? It's just idiocy to even write that down.

You're talking about a player who led European football in passing, assists, completed dribbles, goals and successful free-kicks last year. Oh, but his workrate isn't good enough! Yeah, he's a liability!

I'm interested to learn that passing the ball over a long distance does not count as long range passing. In the video I linked to Messi does indeed pass the ball over a long distance, with perfect accuracy, numerous times. But the quality of his passing is not in doubt anyway. He's the best passer in the world by some distance, and he creates far more chances that Scholes ever did.

He is a far better passer than Scholes. Far better. Scholes isn't fit to lace his boots. The reason Scholes made a lot of passes from deep is that he played there because he legs were gone and he couldn't do anything else. Messi is obviously not going to be back there as much because he's the best forward in the world, who produces far more in the final third than any other player. He sees a pass and makes a pass better than anyone else. I've hardly ever seen him miss a raking, crossfield pass. To say that Scholes would be flattered by this comparison is an understatement. If you told him that you think he's a better passer of the ball than Messi, he would laugh in your face.

Again, you wouldn't even be making this comparison for anyone else. You wouldn't say about Ronaldo, well he scores a lot of goals, but he doesn't drop deep and ping the ball about like Scholes and Xavi. Messi does this, AND he's the most productive player in the final third. What he does is unique. No other player has ever done it, or likely will ever do it.

It's not insulting to me, it's insulting to him, and what he has produced on the field. Why would I be insulted?

 

[Raven]

Football hipsters are so condescending and weird. They don't seem to realise that there is more than just one way to play football. Messi is incredibly good, potentially the greatest of all time, but the same can be said for Ronaldo, and a few others. It depends on what you prefer really, no real need to start on people for preferring a different players style.

For what it's worth, Messi is the most talented player I've ever seen. Ronaldo is my favourite of the 2 because of the hard work he's put into becoming as effective a player as Messi.

 

[Semiarty]

Football hipsters are so condescending and weird. They don't seem to realise that there is more than just one way to play football. Messi is incredibly good, potentially the greatest of all time, but the same can be said for Ronaldo, and a few others. It depends on what you prefer really, no real need to start on people for preferring a different players style.

For what it's worth, Messi is the most talented player I've ever seen. Ronaldo is my favourite of the 2 because of the hard work he's put into becoming as effective a player as Messi.

 

[Raven]

What matters at the end of the day?

Winning matches. Ronaldo does this as well, if not better than Messi.

 

[Zehner]

What matters at the end of the day?

Winning matches. Ronaldo does this as well, if not better than Messi.

Recency bias. Truth is both players' success still depends on their teams since in the end they are only of 22 persons on the pitch. No player can carry his team in every match. Ronaldo is still a brillant goal scorer but the player who won four of his five CL trophies is a lesser one than the Cristiano who won only one. Rating players on team auccess is just dumb for that exact reason. However, IMO CR7 can only compare in goal stats. And I think that these are pretty misleading. You can't measure a player like Messi in goals or assists. The fact that he manages to match or even surpass Cristiano in goal stats is actually unbelievable.

 

[Raven]

Recency bias. Truth is both players' success still depends on their teams since in the end they are only of 22 persons on the pitch. No player can carry his team in every match. Ronaldo is still a brillant goal scorer but the player who won four of his five CL trophies is a lesser one than the Cristiano who won only one. Rating players on team auccess is just dumb for that exact reason. However, IMO CR7 can only compare in goal stats. And I think that these are pretty misleading. You can't measure a player like Messi in goals or assists. The fact that he manages to match or even surpass Cristiano in goal stats is actually unbelievable.

Are you saying that Real Madrid would have had the same success without Ronaldo? And similarly, Barca without Messi?

 

[Zehner]

Are you saying that Real Madrid would have had the same success without Ronaldo? And similarly, Barca without Messi?

No.

 

[Treble]

Watch him struggle again when Barca reach the 1/4 finals in the CL. Or when Argentina play a final. He flopped in Russia just 3 months ago.

 

[Zehner]

Watch him struggle again when Barca reach the 1/4 finals in the CL. Or when Argentina play a final. He flopped in Russia just 3 months ago.

He didn't.

 

[thekman]

He has always been surrounded by absolutely brilliant players at Barca. He's a genius but still that has to help.

The defence had the world cup won for Argentina in 2014. All their offensive talent (Messi included) wilted under the spotlight, this was a particular shame for Messi because he was both outstanding and clutch in all the group stage games and looked on course to have a true statement tournament. That he then won Player of the Tournament when Mascherano was by a million miles their most impactful player was a complete disgrace.

 

[pregra]

Mascherano’s performances in that World Cup just gets more and more overrated by the day. He had some very good last ditch tackles vs Holland, Robben in particular. Besides that, nothing special.

 

[thekman]

Mascherano’s performances in that World Cup just gets more and more overrated by the day. He had some very good last ditch tackles vs Holland, Robben in particular. Besides that, nothing special.

In every knockout game he was sensational and the main factor as to why they didn't concede a goal for about 6 hours of play time.

 

[Carolina Red]

Mascherano’s performances in that World Cup just gets more and more overrated by the day. He had some very good last ditch tackles vs Holland, Robben in particular. Besides that, nothing special.

In every knockout game he was sensational and the main factor as to why they didn't concede a goal for about 6 hours of play time.

Let’s be careful not to let this derail the thread.

 

[CA_vampire]

I don't know why people get so emotional when it comes to Messi or Ronaldo. Messi was excellent vs Spurs. We are so lucky to be able to watch such great players. Enjoy their performances while they last. They are both fantastic players and we'll miss them when they retire.

And we should not forget that they are both very lucky human beings, they are multimillionaires and they have everything they ever wanted. Most of us, we would wish to achieve 1% of what they have already achieved.

 

[Treble]

He didn't.

Compared to Di Maria, maybe. Compared to Cruyff, Platini, Maradona he absolutely flopped. His work rate was nothing short of horrendous and he didn't compensate for it with enough goals or created chances.

 

[Red00012]

Plays well vs spurs 2nd midfield = goat.

Stands to reason.

These hyperlatives are unnecessary.

Magnificent performance all the same.

Platini/Maradona esque passing. There's no question Messi can have a second career from now until retirement as a deeper sitting player. It's impressive what he can do without even having to dribble a man - just the sheer respect the mere threat of him doing so has players standing off him.

But as has been said, needs to be doing these things in the biggest CL games against the best midfielders and midfields to truly take par with what has gone before him in this aspect of his game.

You could say the same about Neymar , nowhere to be seen at anfield then pops up with a hat trick v Red Star.

 

[Fortitude]

You could say the same about Neymar , nowhere to be seen at anfield then pops up with a hat trick v Red Star.

Nobody calls Neymar the best player to have ever existed in the omniverse for great performances against what is essentially fodder.

 

[Red00012]

Nobody calls Neymar the best player to have ever existed in the omniverse for great performances against what is essentially fodder.

No but people still class him as one of the top 5 players in the world which is complete nonsense.

 

[gingerless]

Mascherano’s performances in that World Cup just gets more and more overrated by the day. He had some very good last ditch tackles vs Holland, Robben in particular. Besides that, nothing special.

yup lol it's the go to argument for people that didn't watch argentina then or just want to shit on messi. it's similar to how sneijder should have won in 2010 nonsense