I think he's declined a lot, I imagine Barca will be looking to get rid and with suitors such as The Dog and Duck Rovers and The King's Arms it could be oranges at half time for Lionel.
Lionel Messi
- Thread starter Scarecrow
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What a wankathon of a thread (in surprisingly many ways). Just here for the meltdown.
He is getting older and it is sad to see, but ageing happens to everyone. Even Ronaldo has noticeable declined. They've both had 15 years at the top though, so it's to be expected. I'm curious to see what kind of player he becomes over the next 5 years because obviously technically he is still excellent.
That said I think he'd look better if Barca had anyone else decent in attack. Suarez helps him a lot, but they desperately need a LW that can run at defences and create chances. I've no idea why they signed Griezmann, someone like Sancho for them would be ideal and would elevate the whole attack.
That said I think he'd look better if Barca had anyone else decent in attack. Suarez helps him a lot, but they desperately need a LW that can run at defences and create chances. I've no idea why they signed Griezmann, someone like Sancho for them would be ideal and would elevate the whole attack.
He has been carrying a knock for a while now.
He shouldn't be playing really.
Though his peak is clearly behind him.
He shouldn't be playing really.
Though his peak is clearly behind him.
Still an imperial player but he’s undoubtedly lost his edge which is no great surprise at his age. Barca havent been managed well around him though, with the right players in front of him and behind him he could still be untouchable.
Weird time to claim he's declining after he scored 4 goals last week, one of which was sublime and a goal pretty much only Messi can score.
There’s no denying he’s still one of (probably the) best player in the world — he just now looks human in these matches. He didn’t tend to.
Decline means past peak mate. It doesnt mean shit.
Will he throw the towel in at Barcelona at the end of the season? Either retire or go play few swansong seasons somewhere?
To me he doesn't look bothered in a lot of games these days, just strolls around.
To me he doesn't look bothered in a lot of games these days, just strolls around.
He's no longer able to win a game in his own, unless against weaker opposition. Problem with Barcelona is their players have to pass to Messi even if they are in a better position - their team has high issues. On top of that their midfield is very immobile. They have Busquets and Arthur together who are both really slow - and same goes for Rakitic off the bench.
Won't even talk about the ridiculous decision of signing Griezmann and playing him on the left.
Won't even talk about the ridiculous decision of signing Griezmann and playing him on the left.
Its just so sad watching him decline.
He never was. Not on a consistent basis anyways
Come on people. The team around him is a worse than ever and he has to do more than ever and so he has games like this sometimes
Of course he would decline eventually but he's still amazing, this Barça is a mess and naturally he won't be able to bail them out all the time.
He's been playing with a knock for some time now.
I don't think Messi is declining per se (yeah he can't run as fast as he used to do when he was 22 but he's far better at other things), but he's aging and the lack of subs in Barcelona prevents him from resting as much as he should. He's the victim of terrible choices by his club's management.
There's a huge problem with the players around him though, the scene when Griezmann waits for him when he should have tried to continue the play is absolutely ridiculous. De Jong never gets the ball because it seems that the entire team wants to please Messi by giving it to him. They need to stop or they'll sink.
There's a huge problem with the players around him though, the scene when Griezmann waits for him when he should have tried to continue the play is absolutely ridiculous. De Jong never gets the ball because it seems that the entire team wants to please Messi by giving it to him. They need to stop or they'll sink.
I think he will still score a lot of goals, but i think he isn't THE difference maker in big games anymore.
From his 18 La Liga Goals this season he scored 10(!) against 3 clubs from the Bottom 5.
4 against Eibar, 3 against Celta Vigo, 3 against Mallorca. Even 2 against Valladolid (Bottom 6). So this would be 6 goals against Place 1-14. Doesn't sound that incredible anymore.
So he still will smash a lot of goals in the league and create chances from deep, but he looks checkable for the better teams.
The squad management at Barca has been shockingly bad, there's no doubt about that. He is in a situation where he is expected to start AND finish the attacks, and obviously if he is leaving his peak that will prove much harder than it used to be. Even having a Suarez up next to him would be a massive boost, since Griezemann is just not at the same level. Barca will either need to commit to building a creative midfield force without him so he can stay up near the opposing penalty area, OR using him as the creative midfield, and replacing his goal threat with some pace and physicality in front of him, with some mobility around him. There are times this season where Barca have been like Argentina at their worst with Messi, i.e just give him the ball at the half way line and expect him to do something. He's nearly 33, that approach won't work if you want to win titles.
The problem with Griezmann isn't a level problem, he's a great player. It's the fact that Griezmann's natural position is right where Messi is playing. You couldn't find 2 players less compatible, no matter how talented they are. I don't know what Barcelona had in mind when they bought him, it was obvious is coudln't work.
Similar when we bought Sánchez tbh. Just went for the star name and hoped it would work.
he’s a number 10 but they don’t play with one.
I often wonder how he would have done if he signed for us like he should have.
Messi is almost playing like a number 10 most of the time.
I'm pretty sure Griezmann would have been great for Man Utd, he could have played as a second striker behind Rashford for exemple, it would have been far better for him. With Messi it just doesn't work and it never will.
He's always been a fair weather player and these days that isn't the case all the time at Barca as it used to be. If Barca are going to dish out these performances regularly he's bound to struggle.
He is declining because of one bad game against Real Madrid ? People might want to go check some numbers because he is the highest clasico scorer ever and the highest Bernabeu scorer aswell.
What does history have to do with the fact that he's declining or not?
A decline happens when someone is playing badly for more than two years. That's not the case here. Anyone can have some bad games or even a bad season. That doesn't mean in the next game or in the next season that person won't return to their previous form.
When someone that's supposed to be your forward keeps dropping deep into midfield it's going to disrupt your play. They have to give him the ball because it's Messi. So I think it's not always just give him the ball at the half way line and expect him to do something.
Fair weather player
Will finish with most Ballon d’or than any other player and finish with perhaps more goals than any other player in the history of this game we all love.Thanks for finishing my weekend off with a good laugh.
Barca is dishing out performances like this since years. The one reason you didn't realize it until now is the very player you are criticizing.
That being said, he really has been looking poor in the last few games, and lost top speed. However, let's wait and see how things turn out. He's still shown the most impressive stuff in the world this season in some games, he's just not doing it week in week out currently.
Like I said, there's no planning, no forward thought. Griezemann doesn't fit the way Barca operate currently, he's basically having to learn a whole different way of playing. I don't necessarily think it's best for Messi to drop ultra deep currently, but I also don't think it's a necessarily a negative. In the sense that two years of Valverde's system being "hope he does something" means the other players can't or won't take on those jobs. Messi comes deep to get involved in the play because there is no (or much poorer than previous years) link up between defence, midfield and attack. Messi "should" be receiving the ball 30-35 yards from goal, if you want to use him in a goal scoring threat sense, but if he is up there, who is moving the ball from defence to there? Thus he goes back to do it, and thus the attack struggles because he also has to get up there to do that job as well. It's a failure of planning in every sense, they haven't repaired the squad and the slow decay from 2015 has led to this sort of situation.
He was comfortably the best player in CL last year, what drugs are you on?
He was limping when he got off the bus, he has some sort of thigh injury apparently but he hasn’t looked right. Sadly, they can’t afford to rest him
I don't get why people are overreacting when someone claims he declined / is declining. Its fairly obvious that he declined. Maybe it's because of his age or maybe he is carrying an injury (or both), I dunno.
Saying he is declining its not saying that he sucks, it's just saying that he is past his peak and that's ok. He is still an incredible player even taking that in to consideration. Just because he scored 4 against the all mighty Eibar, doesn't mean that he is still the same player.
The guy is still a genius and he will give us a few more years of brilliant moments but Barcelona needs to get their sht together because Messi peak is gone and they look cluess without him.
Saying he is declining its not saying that he sucks, it's just saying that he is past his peak and that's ok. He is still an incredible player even taking that in to consideration. Just because he scored 4 against the all mighty Eibar, doesn't mean that he is still the same player.
The guy is still a genius and he will give us a few more years of brilliant moments but Barcelona needs to get their sht together because Messi peak is gone and they look cluess without him.
Absolute bullshit. There's no set window for decline. You can see that he's been getting worse and worse since 2015. His performance against Liverpool away last year was evidence of that.
The reality is that age is catching up with him and he's not got Ronaldo's athletic prowess so he has to rely on other attributes. The same ones posters of this forum said he could easily transform his game with... yet against very good sides he produces very little.
Messi creating every single chance in the second leg against Liverpool and being the best player in CL and winning ballon d’or is his decline? And you point to one game where he was still their best player? He’s scored against both Madrid’s, Dortmund, Juventus, Tottenham, Liverpool, united, chelsea in the last two years. Not sure where this crap about producing against the good sides is coming from.
Come off it, he was amazing last season, and isn’t playing well right now but he’ll be fine. The whole team is in a rut.
Against a better team which went on to win the league and CL, gets injured early, his own team off-form and Neymar injured, a must win away game.
One bad game and suddenly he's declining and past it?
Football fans really are the worst.
Football fans really are the worst.
Exactly. There's a difference between a slump and being past it.
Congrats on the win, you guys were fantastic in that second half.
I don't think he's declined really, he's declined physically of course but improved other things. The team around him is just worse, this season is the first time in over a decade that he's playing for a team that's not a top team. It's a lot tougher in these circumstances to look as consistently great as he did for the past 10 years.
He'll look a lot better once Suarez is back.
He'll look a lot better once Suarez is back.