How good is he at pointing?
Lisandro Martinez | Man Utd player - Contract till 2027, with the option to extend for a further year
- Thread starter roonster09
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This is why I'm not completely sold on his domestic stats.
FBREF have last season's CL stats as 55.2% aerial duel success which is bottom 20th percentile for centre backs. Granted this is a smaller sample size of 8 games so it is possible it's not a fair reflection. The previous seasons CL stats are worse at 51.9% and 41.4% but again small sample size. Maybe he's not as aerially weak as the CL stats suggest however I'm almost certain he's not as aerially strong as people on here seem to think he is.
Logically I just can't see him coming into the premier league and being an aerially dominant centre back at his size. It would be a very rare exception. What we'd then have to hope is we're so dominant as a team that a weakness is rarely exposed to the point where it doesn't really matter. I think we're in for a surprise if we think our games will be so one-sided in our favour that teams won't be able to exploit a fundamental weakness.
Malacia will definitely dislodge Shaw in short order. Martinez and Eriksen will also start. Eriksen can play deeper.
FDJ is responsible for primarily linking up play from defenders (even though Eriksen also good in that aspect). Against weaker opponents a midfield of Eriksen And FDJ will do with Bruno at 10.
Spot on
Not going to obsess over the fee like many. We got VDB for only 30 and he was rubbish. What matters is the quality of the player.
He's also left footed like me, and I definitely wouldn't make it in the PL. That tells you everything you need to know about him.
Funny story about this.
So, this was around the time Joel Glazer claimed we had an amazing database of players.
Wan Bissaka was chosen out of something like 800 full backs from a database.
That database was not data gathered by our scouts. It was outsourced work from a company that provide scouting databases known as Wyscout.
They all get bought then played in different system. Ziyech is doing well despite his small size though.
I don't think that will be the case.
But I think we're trying to build the team to the point where that is the case. And in order to do so you have to sign players for the team you're trying to become rather than the team you currently are. Because you can't wait until the system works before signing the players who make the system work.
If it costs you goals in the short term then you have to live with that. It's part of why we'll only be aiming for a top four spot this season and not a title, there are inevitably going to be teething problems and flaws.
Though I think they're far more likely to come in the form of goals like the one we conceded against Melbourne or situations like the below against Liverpool, where our aggressive but inexact play puts us in tricky positions. Because regardless of how well Martinez' aerial ability translates to our team, some people are still massively overrating the importance of aerial ability relative to everything else a CB has to deal with.
The issue with this logic is I don't think you have to compromise. This isn't a video game where having strength in one attribute means you have to have weakness in another. This has shades of us trying to convince ourselves that Maguire's pace won't be an issue because it's all about the team's organisation or whatever the spiel is. Is Martinez the only centre back in the world that is good on the ball? Liverpool have managed to find themselves 3 centre backs who are aerially dominant, quick, good on the ball and can defend 1v1. They didn't opt to build their team around trying to compensate for fundamental weaknesses in their centre backs, they chose to recruit players who are good all round.
He's basically the same height as me so I'm a bit concerned about it but It seems like Ten Hag will be playing high line so ability to stop counters will be key and from what I've heard he's quite god at that side of the game.
We're going in circles. This is a repeat of the Timber discussion.
As I responded back then, doesn't every player come with a compromise? Nobody is perfect. Somebody having height, doesn't mean the player is perfect. Now I know that isn't what you mean, but that is the implication when you state only a player that checks off every attribute as "not being a compromise."
I don't know why you view players as if there is a checklist to mark off. Is there not a compromise between the CB profile (that is available) you want United to sign, and Martinez? Because how many players are as good on the ball as him? However, you will only view Martinez as the compromise and not another CB simply because of height difference, and not because of Martinez's superior ball playing ability. I just can never agree with that viewpoint.
I would rather look at players as fits onto a system, and how they provide the team attributes so that the sum of the parts is complete. For example, it is entirely possible to have his height as a negative, but if the team has sufficient height relative to the competition, then him being short doesn't matter. We've had midfields of Pogba, Mctominay, and Matic. Even though we didn't have short CB's at that time, would it even hurt to have one considering the midfield comprises of giants? Similarly, Chelsea have had midfield consisting of Kante, Jorginho, and Kovacic. Because their CBs were of normal height for the position, does that all of a sudden give them an advantage over United if United had Martinez as a CB with that United midfield? I don't think so.
I think Maguire is more of a problem than Martinez considering the high line Ten Hag wants to play. We're far more likely to concede due to speedy counter attacks than goals off headers.
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While we'll have to wait to see how he performs it's a positive sign that the board is signing players the manager actually asks for.
some of his passing from defence is a bit like Lindeloff.
Another one wrapped up. Hopefully comes in and justifies the fee. At the very least it is another player who we know understands how we are wanting to play.
It's not about being elite in every single attribute, it's about not having major weaknesses that are there to be targeted and exploited by the opposition. For example I don't think being lightning quick is absolutely necessary, but you certainly can't be as slow as Maguire. Maguire being unable to run certainly feels like a compromise because it's too far below the minimum standard.
If a player is poor on the ball then it's a compromise, sure. If, for example, they're good on the ball but not as good as Martinez, then I wouldn't consider that a compromise.
I think a certain level of aerial dominance is just a fundamental attribute a centre back should have if you're building an ideal team. I feel like a fair few managers would agree and it's possibly why there are no first choice 5ft 9 centre backs currently in the premier league. Now, he may be a freak exception to the rule and not have any problems at all, it's just an opinion on a discussion forum at the end of the day.
Shona River is that you?
Hopefully his defending is not like it
Great stuff, I think he'll do really well for us. Seems to have that touch of Argie fire about him.
I just hope he isn't too tall for the PL.
I just hope he isn't too tall for the PL.
Happy with this signing. All top teams need at least 4 good rotatable CB in case of injuries. Also if we are playing a high line, a mobile CB is going to be crucial. Looking forward to see what ETH's masterplan is.
Good video, he ends the video saying "no one knows where he is going to play", i think that's the right answer for now. Would lean heavily on CB position for now as that's where he played in last couple of seasons.
Terrible he can only point at other players knees
Not a fan of the high transfer fee but I like the signing, and the profile of the type of player he is. He seems like someone who can thrive in a back 3 at the very least.
Fingers crossed
As ETH says, his system is dependent on the players he has. But like the video says, the left CB make sense especially for passing out fast.
Worth every inch
Wow is he fecking expensive..
Lets hope this one works out, although we've got so much competition in the CB spots right now it won't matter.
Hopefully he gets to play some in midfield as well. We need better players in that area.
If we add FDJ then nobody can say we haven't backed the manager this summer.
We've spent by far the most out of any club.
Lets hope this one works out, although we've got so much competition in the CB spots right now it won't matter.
Hopefully he gets to play some in midfield as well. We need better players in that area.
If we add FDJ then nobody can say we haven't backed the manager this summer.
We've spent by far the most out of any club.
Varane, Bailly and Maguire are all average on the ball. Lindelof is better but Martinez? He’s a legitimate BALLER. We need press-resistant passers at back to form the backbone of ETH’s possession styled systems. What’s the point of training to be a possession team if all the opposition need to do to stifle you is hard press your defence?
That's what she said
He's shorter than me so. Just a bit of information you needed this morning.
Anyone think martinez will play as much in DM as he will CB? I can see us playing de gea, dalot, Maguire, Varane, Malacia, martinez, Bruno, eriksen, sancho, martial, rashford, in a 4-3-3. That team should dominate most of the premier league teams. Obviously if we get de Jong then he’ll have to fit somewhere in that midfielder and martinez might drop down into defence. I think ten Hag will change it quite a bit depending on the opponent.
Yes you are correct. He is certainly bought for his versatility, since his attributes span across a few positions. He basically can play anywhere across the defensive half of the pitch which gives ETH a lot of options.
Pretty sure we paid 39m Stg for VDB.
Can someone explain to me why in such convincing fashion some of you are describing him as perfect for the "system" when others are claiming and from what I have seen of him also, he does not seem as pacey? Should pace be a relevant concern about him?
And another question, how good is he actually at CDM?
And another question, how good is he actually at CDM?
He’s perfect for the system as his build up play is quality and will help us massively in possession which is why ten Hag brought him in, he wants players who are comfortable on the ball. I also don’t think he’s as slow as people are making out, he’s pretty quick from what I’ve seen, I highly doubt ten Hag would of brought in another slow defender like Maguire to play an high line which is what he prefers.
He will fail VISA because of his height.
Overall I'm happy with this signing. I understand the reservations some fans have due to his height, transfer fee and coming from a less competitive league but I really think he will be a good player for us.
Although he isn't the tallest it seems like he is still strong in the air. He will also be our most aggressive defender alongside maybe Bailly. We also need a player who is comfortable with the ball at his feet to suit ETHs preferred style of play.
I think that CB is one of those areas that although we seem stacked with options it's really a false representation. Varane and Bailly have massive question marks over fitness, Maguire has question marks over ability and Lindelof although pretty good last season can suffer from lack of physicality and being too slow.
At the end of the day we have brought in ETH to transform the team based on how he performed at Ajax. There is always a risk with a manager raiding his old team and league to buy players but if we believe in ETH then we need to believe in his choice of transfers. I think Martinez will be an integral part of allowing us to build up play from the back and be a more possession based team.
Although he isn't the tallest it seems like he is still strong in the air. He will also be our most aggressive defender alongside maybe Bailly. We also need a player who is comfortable with the ball at his feet to suit ETHs preferred style of play.
I think that CB is one of those areas that although we seem stacked with options it's really a false representation. Varane and Bailly have massive question marks over fitness, Maguire has question marks over ability and Lindelof although pretty good last season can suffer from lack of physicality and being too slow.
At the end of the day we have brought in ETH to transform the team based on how he performed at Ajax. There is always a risk with a manager raiding his old team and league to buy players but if we believe in ETH then we need to believe in his choice of transfers. I think Martinez will be an integral part of allowing us to build up play from the back and be a more possession based team.
I was thinking the same, paying 50 mil on a player to keep him on the bench would be strange.
The rumours were that Maguire will still be the captain and if Varane is not injured than we already have the CB pairing. Would be interesting to see where will Martinez be used and how will he perform in front of the defence.