You make a very valid point
Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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He doesn’t use 3 at the back as such but when his teams are in possession it turns to 3 at the back with either one full back tucking in and the other one helping out in attack or the DM drops back to create a 3 which is probably the reason we want martinez, makes sense to have someone who’s comfortable on the ball and can play in a few positions.
That’s exactly what we need. Seems like since fergie we’ve always had managers that prefer to counter so they’ve never been coached in possession so they have no clue what to do with the ball and run out of ideas. LVG being an exception as he tried to play a possession game but wasn’t very attacking.
Definitely will not be given the time he is used to so if he is going to cut it then what he does well at the moment he will have to do it quicker in England.
he may be in for a shocker.... and so will ETH.
That's the danger of being too ducth-centric even though it's understandable -- it's people he knows & trusts. But ETH will be on a learning curve himself and a steep one at that.
So it makes more sense to buy players that the manager does not want but might fit his successor?
Why are Arsenal bothering to compete with United for him?
No smugness, and I don’t even think United are a better team as of today
But if Arsenal hired Ten Hag and were trying to sign him, I’d see little point in competing. Seems obvious the player will choose to play under Ten Hag if he has a straight choice between two Europa League teams
No smugness, and I don’t even think United are a better team as of today
But if Arsenal hired Ten Hag and were trying to sign him, I’d see little point in competing. Seems obvious the player will choose to play under Ten Hag if he has a straight choice between two Europa League teams
That wouldn't reduce the need for a DM! A front footed CB and a DM are completely different, the don't occupy the same space or function the same.
It's also just too aggressive tactically for a side as poor as us to pull off, let alone to put that pressure on a young lad stepping up from the Dutch league to the Prem. Plus, Maguire and Lindelof as underwhelming as they are, are better than McFred, so I'd be much happier with Martinez in midfield and Maguire/Lindelof over McFred.
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Having a left footed CB is a pure dream.
The last we had one was Blind from Ajax as well.
The last we had one was Blind from Ajax as well.
Why is this a thing now? Its said everywhere. Its not understandable to me. So every manager should just get in his ex players or players he knows? Like fk the scouting system? Im pretty sure Klopp and Guardiola dont have a best buddie scouting agenda. Sure you go for your ex players now and again. De Jong for example - fine. But as a policy? How weak and pathetic a manager do you need to be to have to get your buddies around you? Im sure it would be nice. They could have Dutch barbeque Sundays. Clog Thursdays anyone? But realistically its stupid to be so close minded with transfers. You should be able to form the trust and bond with the squad you have and any player you bring in even if they are from somewhere else than you. And you should have a top notch scouting system and not have to rely on your new manager to tell you all his buddies he wants to bring in. Seriously - Who works like that!
I too try to forget our last argentine, left footed CB.
We are only going for Ajax or Dutch players? Gonna be a long season this....
Even if that's true, why it is gonna be a long season cause of it?
Because ETH will be found out.
Haha really?
Interesting conclusion I must say. He's going for players he knows and trusts and that's why he'll be found out...
Never a good sign only going for players he knows and trust. This is not Eredivisie, it's a far better league you know.
I guess this is a one more thing to complain about and season hasnt even started. You're right, its gonna be a long season.
That’s the spirit
Out of 4 players we're chasing at the moment you have Malacia whom he saw in action (not his barbecue buddy) and Erikssen. So nothing to be so up in arms about.
I don’t think so, Frenkie is another player that naturally likes to drop to CB. It would be overkill to play 3 at the back on top of that.
I actually think we should sign players who directly contradict Ten Hag's playing style. That way, at least when everything goes wrong because we assembled a squad full of players who don't fit our system the next manager won't have any issues!
(I'm kidding)
(I'm kidding)
Why is De Jong fine, but Martinez is not?
Because De Jong is a player that went to Barca. A top club wouldnt we agree. Proved himself - maybe didnt light it up. But has given every indication that he will walk in and be a first teamer. Straight into the midfield. Martinez is a gamble. We dont know if he will make it or not because he is comming from a weak league and is short as fk. But also he is a back up. He wont be starting over Maguire and Varane. Plus there are a ton of other CB's but we are just going for his players. What about other options? With De Jong there are not so many players of his style and experience. Not saying Martinelli might not be a good signing. Maybe he will but just going for your old buddies should not be a policy.
So you would be ok if some other club sign Martinez and then we signed from them for bigger fee?
He won't be a back up, every position is up for grabs and Maguire has done nothing to show he is undisputed starter. Martinez has advantage as he is left footed, this is something that is considered by managers and also his passing is levels above Maguire.
If it was Moyes and we went for ex-Everton players, then it's a problem but Ajax is a talent hub in Europe. We are trying to change our entire system, it wouldn't hurt to sign couple of players who might be key components of the system.
Eriksen is a free and he knows him from Ajax. He let him train for them. Malacia is Dutch that he knows from hs old league. If you cant see he is targeting Dutch and ex players and players from his old league which means basically fk scouting then I dont know what to tell you. Also I was being facetious abot the barbeque buddies. I dint mean it literally. But the point still stands.
Not to mention 'short as fu.k' thing he mentions. Player can be tall and bad at heading and vice versa, fact he's short doesnt mean he doesnt jump and doesnt make up for his shortness with other defending qualities.
Yeah, heading is not the only way to defend and winning headers is not just about height.
Tbf there are some concerns about height, can't say there isn't but people think it would be unrealistic to play him as CB. Lindelof is tall, doesn't mean anything. He is bullied so many times (tbf to him, he has improved on that).
You clearly dont know what to tell me, with that you're right. You're complaining just for the sake of it. He knows Malacia from his old league yes. What should he do, sing players he doesnt know from his old league? Managers do it all the time, they see a player in action, they like him and wants to bring him in.
Erikssen is free? All the better then. Maybe instead he should go for unknown player for a big fee?
Him bringing players he knows or seen in action doesnt mean fk scouting system but it's a way of him starting in a new club, in time he'll get to know how it all works, including scouting system.
Exactly.
I absolutely agree.
With Malacia and Lisandro it seems EtH forms another Ajax team. Well, this is Manchester United, a different level. They are probably back-up options - rotation for Shaw and what? 50 millions for a third choice CB? We should target a starter RB in defence. I see no point in this transfer and hope it doesn't haplen.
Ajax now reportedly want 50m pounds for him. Those who follow Dutch football; is he really worth that much? I mean, that's significantly more than Gabriel Jesus or Kalvin Phillips is going for. At that price, you'd be expecting someone to come in and be an immediate impact player.
Who said they want pounds... They want 50m Euro.
If Martinez is the next icon CB then sure go get him. Ten Haag should know. But if he is then sell Maguire. Why keep a 80 mill England captain on the bench? Not going to happen. Even if it does by some miracle then all we do is drop his fee even further.
Ajax is not a great a talent hub as everyone says. Of these recent great sides who has made it outside of Ajax? De Jong and De ligt have done ok. Not exactly lit up the world though have they? Who else?
Not really. Hardly any of the players we bought under LvG were suited to his style of play. Blind was the obvious exception, and he’s been a key player for ETH as well.
Definitely. I really can’t see us going down the Jose/Conte route.
As far as I can tell, the reason we’ve gone for the manager’s targets is because our scouting is still not fit for purpose. If Arnold and Murtough are serious about their jobs they aren’t going to stand around and do nothing about that.
Ah, my bad. Well, do you think he's worth 50m Euros?
So ETH should be burdened with Maguire just because Ole and Woodward thought it was good decision to pay 80 million for Maguire?
Lets say we sign Pau Torres, is he next Icon CB? Why should we add unnecessary tags like that? I don't know how good or bad he is, maybe ETH doesn't rate passing ability of our CBs, so he might be thinking Martinez is the player who can give that option. It's not even random, he tried to sign Timber and once it failed, he moved on to Martinez. So looks like he doesn't rate ball playing ability of our CBs.
I have absolutely no ideaAh, my bad. Well, do you think he's worth 50m Euros?
Kimpembe is rumoured to be valued at the same price but we have to consider that Martinez will likely ask for way less money, so the total package around his signing will not be as high. Ajax might agree to various addons, payments in installments etc., which could further facilitate the deal.There is also the player himself. His value is currently determined by his performances. Maguire was signed for 80 mil but no club will pay close to that for him currently. If he is transferred again and has 1-2 great seasons, his value will rise again. I try not to think in terms of money but in terms of tactical fit.
That seems unlikely to me - passing is considered one of Maguire's fortes, and Lindelof is good at it too. Not a weakness of Varane's either, though he is probably the weakest of those 3 in that department. My money would be on our problems playing a high line, not just because of limited pace in the backline, but equally because of what's in front of and behind them: A midfield with little ability to control space defensively, and a keeper who largely stays on his line.
But who knows. There's talk now of wanting two new CBs, so it has to be something.
That team looks very worrying if that’s what we go with. Horrible.
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