We were also told that Suarez was not that big a factor and lots of stats were thrown around how without his goals they were still winning most games last season. That's why Liverpool fans are not worth having sensible discussion with. They offer good comic value though so laughing is all you can do after reading their posts.
Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense
- Thread starter Wumminator
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
None of Vidic, Evra nor especially Rio were top class last season, nor the season before. They were experienced though.
Agree on your comments last year, but the year prior, Rio and vidic were in great form, particularly in the run in and evra had a great season as an attacking full back, though was suspect defending, but he pushed his winger back consistently... Clearly they weren't top though, I accept that. It's the experience in consideration esp of injuries that we miss and that's the point I make, pickled makes it sound like we lost no one.
oh yeah, who was it that statistically proved suarez wouldn't be missed by tallying the goals coming into the squad and saying how the defense would improve? Rafa perhaps?
to be fair to Rafa, I think it was a stonewaller as particularly Smalling had his arms around ivanovics neck, rojo terry was more 6 of one, half dozen of the other, that said, it does happen every week, and Chelsea are on of the worst, terry and ivanovics make it an art, they also do that whole blocking as if they are in the nfl. I think skertl and lovers and Johnson are particularly blatant too, but as its United there's attention. I take it this means that were are turning a corner and people are worried again... Has to be a good thing.Hilarious that you're blind to where the hands of Ivanovic and Terry were. Laughable that you call it a stonewall penalty.
Well I my only argument is that it wasn't a stonewall penalty. If it was given, I'd understand but certainly don't think it was clear enough to distinguish that it was only the defenders who were infringing. And if it wasn't clear, I don't think it can be called 'stonewall'. You're right about the other things though. And it's funny that these guys are more wound up about this incident than the Chelsea fans!
Ok I agree with you, my stone wall comment is coming from my thought that had it been given against, I wouldn't have been too pissed, had it been at the other end, I'd be screaming for it. I think most chelsea fans recognise that terry and ivanovics grapple and have got lucky in the past, to be honest we don't do it enough!!
The experience is a more crucial factor when it comes to the defense though. Imagine losing all that multi title winning experience in one summer and left with a starting back 5 with an average age of 22-23. Obviously, its a fault to not add an experienced defender to the squad to make up for the loss.
We probably should!
Back on topic, didn't watch the game last night but looks like a good win for them
I agree with that, experience counts for lots and can be drawn-upon in more ways than simply performances on the field.
No idea. They all sound same to me.
You still spent 120m, though. Difference is, we bought two world class players, two very promising midfielders and a LB with unreal potential. Rojo ain't bad either.
Liverpool, on the other hand, bought Lambert, Balotelli, Markovic, Lallana and Lovren. You bought shit. (Moreno is alright).
That event occurred before they scored their actual goal. Who's to say we wouldn't have gone on to score an equaliser, again? You can't say it would have had a difference at all because, in this hypothetical world, Drogba wouldn't have scored the goal he did.
A post like that is the epitome of your User Name. Perfecto - well done !
Yep. T'was me. Though you are misquoting or misinterpreting my intent. I at no time ever said Suarez would not be missed - how could anyone even consider that based on his performances last season ?
What I did say is that we could still achieve the +38 to +40 GD that is required for a team to make the CL slots by the incoming & current players scoring more (minor improvement in some cases) or less (in some cases, because they are playing less) but by adhering roughly to their average goal-scoring records, also by the defence improving to reduce that awful 51 goals against of the last PL season to a more reasonable 40 something against, this. Well it's not working out that way on either count yet but there's still ¾ of the season to go and so hopefully we'll get into our stride soon.
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You did, though. Let's be honest.
What a load of bollocks. At no point did I say it was NOT a penalty. All I mentioned was these things every game and every team is guilty of it. No penalties are awarded most of the time and Skrtel is one of the worst in this regard and he got away with it the whole of last season. I did not see the outcry from Pool fans the so this sudden realisation is nothing but bitterness. I clearly mentioned that standards have been set where these things are not punished and thus it not being given as a penalty was fair in that regard. But you decided to back.Skrtel saying he is not this bad which is nothing but bs. So I didn't bother to reply to those posts of yours.
Those extra penalties Liverpool were gifted last season had an explanation too, it was because Liverpool spent most of the time in the opponents box. All despite Fergusons United being called corrupt for over two decades each time a penalty was awarded.
I've come to the conclusion that we won't ever get another penalty in this league, someone will have to die first it seems, but just watch the pissing and moaning the minute we get one.
I've come to the conclusion that we won't ever get another penalty in this league, someone will have to die first it seems, but just watch the pissing and moaning the minute we get one.
What constitutes a stonewall penalty in your mind, then? Shooting someone in the head?
You're also wrong that Chelsea were more incisive. We had the better opportunities and more number of them. Would they be able to finish us off if they didn't stop playing at 1-0? Possibly, but it's far from certain. They were hardly troubling us anyway.
That's been the case for every penalty decision United should have had this season.
You have to wonder if dopey Dowd had mixed the teams up for that shout.
This post reads like United are owning the league this season while Liverpool are relegation fodder.
The reality is far less polemic.
Then allow me to refer to one major and obvious incident from last nights game where Swansea were robbed by the referee. That wasn't a red card in a million years.
You've been awful to watch this year yet I thought your luck would surely run out after that amazingly jammy win over QPR. Guess I was wrong.
From the amount of pens you got last year to that red card last night, you have the cheek to bring up a penalty appeal of Chelsea regarding something that happens in every game and which your own centre back is the biggest culprit in the whole league.
And neither did you say it should have been. All you did was deflect to something totally unrelated to that specific incident - saying that it goes on in every game and that Skrtel is one of the worst (and I have still never seen him put anyone in a headlock) !
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And there we go again, another deflection. Can't you just discuss the actual event without having to try and switch tack to Liverpool ?
It most certainly wasn't a Red Card. So WTF are you on about ? Have you seen ANY 'Pool supporter say otherwise ? I haven't. As for luck, United have had it for years too ... it goes along with putting bodies and pressure in the opposition box.
And Swansea last night ? They created SFA and so in the end paid the price. Liverpool 22 shots (10 on target) vs Swansea 6 (5). I'd say 2-1 was a fair result in the end.
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So you do realise that Liverpool get their fair share of luck and big decisions then. Good. As Robin said, these things tend to even themelves out over the course of a season so for you to have the cheek to bring up the Invanovic - Smalling incident as if it was the defining aspect of the Utd v Chelsea game and the main reason we got something, is beyond.
You love your stats so take a look at Utd's from Sunday. We were the better side and deserved at least a point. Chelsea are still a much better side right now but on the day we matched them. We're going in the right direction and it seems like it worries you.
All teams have their share - the more you attack you more you 'earn'. A key element of United's success over the years and undoubtedly a factor in the number of penalties we were given last year (not many actually disputable BTW).
That 'headlock' incident is all over the press/media so why is it not worthy of discussion ? The fact it is indigenous to every league in the world, and more visibly so perhaps in the PL, is worth a thread on it's own - but I don't see why United fans are so defensive and feel the need to deflect.
Chelsea are a counter-offensive side. This is how they played at OT, however for me they looked far more dangerous than United and by far the most dangerous player, who looked like he was about to score or create almost every time he got the ball, was Hazard. Matic/Fellaini deservedly received Kudos but Hazard was the man for me. There were very few occasions I felt Chelsea's defence looked like it would be breached whereas it didn't look that way when Hazard & Ivanovic (esp. from the right) attacked United's backline. Maybe the difference is simply you viewing from a United fan's standpoint and me from a neutral's (if a Pool fan can be called that when watching United). Be interesting to see how the Chelsea fans viewed the match.
Of course United worry me. We are in direct contention (with Arsenal) for a CL place so every point United or Arsenal gain is a concern and every point we drop doubly so ! That doesn't mean I think you are suddenly going to start performing as potential champions, clearly (to me at least) that is a season or two away and dependent on more successful transfer windows.
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The Chelsea headlocks incident could have been a penalty - but it's a bit unfair to label it as 'stonewall' when the same thing happens at 90% of corners with nothing being said.
Also, we were due a break in the 'decisions' sphere without a shadow of a doubt, but that hasn't come to the attention of the media to the same extent.
Therefore, we're well entitled to pointlessly whinge about it.
Also, we were due a break in the 'decisions' sphere without a shadow of a doubt, but that hasn't come to the attention of the media to the same extent.
Therefore, we're well entitled to pointlessly whinge about it.
Racist!
It was me who said we'd be around 12 points worse off this season without Suarez.
At the time I admired your realism but I'm not even sure I can see Pool getting 74 points this season.
Tall order indeed.
Utd fans get defensive about it for the very reason you state it is worthy of discussion. It is all over the press meaning that refs will be looking to show they don't favour Utd. It happens all the time. We were fecked over at Leicester and it barely warrants a mention.
Chelsea looked the more dangerous side for about 15 minutes in the game, which MNF highlighted very well. They started the second half really well and had me worried but didn't push on after their goal. We had a lot of clear cut chances and could've been ahead with better finishing. I think the 1-1 was overall a fair result and I don't think Chelsea played as well as they could have... but that was in great part due to how Van Gaal set up the team with the pressing on their midfield and our use of the ball when we got it back.
I thought it was a penalty clear as day myself. Ivanovic is trying to play the ball and still got quite close to it despite Smalling not even looking at the ball and doing a tackle that would even be illegal in rugby as it was high and around the neck.
It's in the past now, we got our point now lets focus on City.
Seems reasonable. But when someone pointed out the same stats being rather lobsided in United's favour during the Chelsea match...
So those stats only prove something when you want them to?
Improved performance last night from Liverpool (albeit I was only half-watching) but still nothing to get me worried yet. More controlled then recent weeks, but that explosive high tempo play of last season is looking more and more like a brief run of good form not to be repeated. There was nothing along those lines here.
With no Sterling and Sturridge, they're a mid-table team in attack. Borini was decent on the night, but hardly looked like a Champions League quality striker. Lambert was anonymous, Markovich is looking like a waste of money. Balotelli has a long way to go yet and even at his peak (if he's ever had one) doesn't look like a player to carry an otherwise under-performing team.
It was a shame Swansea couldn't take them to extra time, but otherwise I'm glad they got through. I don't see them winning the cup, and wouldn't care if they did. So the extra game they have to play suits us fine, its just more congestion for them to deal with. It comes midweek with games against us and Arsenal either side of it. Apart from the international break they now have 2 games a week til the new year. For a team that's looking tired and, more importantly, one whose squad players are not delivering, additional games is just a burden. I just hope they draw a decent team so they have to field a strongish team again.
With no Sterling and Sturridge, they're a mid-table team in attack. Borini was decent on the night, but hardly looked like a Champions League quality striker. Lambert was anonymous, Markovich is looking like a waste of money. Balotelli has a long way to go yet and even at his peak (if he's ever had one) doesn't look like a player to carry an otherwise under-performing team.
It was a shame Swansea couldn't take them to extra time, but otherwise I'm glad they got through. I don't see them winning the cup, and wouldn't care if they did. So the extra game they have to play suits us fine, its just more congestion for them to deal with. It comes midweek with games against us and Arsenal either side of it. Apart from the international break they now have 2 games a week til the new year. For a team that's looking tired and, more importantly, one whose squad players are not delivering, additional games is just a burden. I just hope they draw a decent team so they have to field a strongish team again.
We were pretty average throughout. We were good the first half, but disappeared during the second. Coutinho, Henderson, Manquillo, Toure, Lucas and Borini all come out of that game with credit as they all played well. Lambert's lack of movement as the lone striker helps no one though and Coutinho and Henderson especially struggle. I'd drop Skrtel immediately for Toure.
I thought we were more dominant against Hull.
Look who's back after a LFC win!
So you missed the two occasions when RVP cut open their defense and but for good goalkeeping he would have scored, the volley my Di Maria right at the beginning and the pull back for Mata. In response Chelsea had a pull back to Drogba in the first half and a one on one for Hazard. There were little to no other clear cut chances. United were far more threatening than Chelsea.
It seems because United got a break and managed a draw that equates to us being outplayed and far inferior to the team at the top of the table. Sure, on paper they are a better team/squad, maybe individually they shade it as well, but on the day, they didn't get things their way. Easy to say Chelsea didn't turn up, but also easy to say United didn't let them play.
He's back!
Where have you been Barney?
Where have you been Barney?
Thing is though, the game you're talking about - the Chelsea game - ADM had a poor game, Falcao didn't make the bench and Herrera didn't play.
Plus looking at the investment you needed to claw past Swansea's B-team in the CoC last night...
Manquillo, Lovren, Markovic, Lallana, Lambert and Balotelli - that's 85m!
Before shouting about other teams spending their way to results you might wanna look at yourselves first, because you lot have spent an absolute fortune last Summer and are flailing around looking very disjointed and playing woeful football compared to last year.