Well, that's something completely different, but I'm not even sure that's true either.
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Liverpool 2018/19
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Liverpool's front three is excellent but so is the front three of other clubs. What seems lost on many fans and pundits though is that the quality of the attack can't be reduced to the quality of the front three. And the quality of the defence can't be reduced to the quality of the defenders either. A team attacks and defends as a whole. Liverpool have scored fewer PL goals than City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Bournemouth (!), as many as Spurs and only 1 more than Leicester. Even if their fixtures have been more difficult, the attack has been unimpressive. And there is no guarantee that if/when it starts to score more, the defence will remain stable. This mantra that they can only get better is dubious.
17/18 after 8 games:
Position 8th
Pts - 13
GF - 13
GA - 12
18/19 after 8 games:
Position - 3rd
Pts - 20 (tied top)
GF - 15
GA - 3
Interesting, huh?
Position 8th
Pts - 13
GF - 13
GA - 12
18/19 after 8 games:
Position - 3rd
Pts - 20 (tied top)
GF - 15
GA - 3
Interesting, huh?
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Liverpool in 2008/9
Premier League 2nd
FA Cup Fourth round
League Cup Fourth round
UEFA Champions League Quarter-finals
Utd in 2008/9
Premier League 1st
FA Cup Semi-finals
League Cup Winners
Community Shield Winners
UEFA Champions League Runners-up
UEFA Super Cup Runners-up
FIFA Club World Cup Winners
But it's true that LFC had fewer defeats & a better GD in the League while presumably playing significantly fewer games on the OVERALL basis.
And them 11 annoying LFC draws - ie: not just the odd one. It could have been your Auntie with some bollocks, innit? Instead of Utd winning it by 4pts with a game to spare, but still doing all the other stuff too.
Still the ''Torres Making a Mug of Vidic Cup'' though eh? Is it kept on display at Melwood alongside ''Big Ears'' ?
Premier League 2nd
FA Cup Fourth round
League Cup Fourth round
UEFA Champions League Quarter-finals
Utd in 2008/9
Premier League 1st
FA Cup Semi-finals
League Cup Winners
Community Shield Winners
UEFA Champions League Runners-up
UEFA Super Cup Runners-up
FIFA Club World Cup Winners
But it's true that LFC had fewer defeats & a better GD in the League while presumably playing significantly fewer games on the OVERALL basis.
And them 11 annoying LFC draws - ie: not just the odd one. It could have been your Auntie with some bollocks, innit? Instead of Utd winning it by 4pts with a game to spare, but still doing all the other stuff too.
Still the ''Torres Making a Mug of Vidic Cup'' though eh? Is it kept on display at Melwood alongside ''Big Ears'' ?
This is an entirely general point OK.
**I'm lucky no one has noticed, obviously
But when the feck is this going to be realized on this forum. It's driving me fecking batty**, it really is.
**I'm lucky no one has noticed, obviously
The main point of improvement that I see where we can get better without having to tinker too much is one we can't fix till january. We desperately need a 10 who can put in some of the graft you'd want from an 8 (Iniesta is the model for that blend) to link up midfield and attack.
Chamberlain did it very well when Coutinho left and Lallana before him prior to injuries, but they aren't available and/or reliable. And even when and if Keita finds his feet, that's not what he was signed to be either.
We have a boxfull of midfielders whose job it is to keep the ball moving, but no one who fancies the final pass, taking a shot or generally just taking the responsibility of mixing it up with the front three in and around the penalty area. We are essentially playing with a man less in the final third than most teams.
I don't expect our attack to be brilliant anytime soon, unless Lallana explodes into his early Klopp self. Should still be good enough to get us through the next run of fixtures, but we're going to have to try and ride it out until we can get reinforcements. Not signing a 10 was a serious mistake.
Firmino is your 10 though essentially, is he not?
Dropping off & feeding the ball through for runners.
edit - I don't mean that in a way that esp challenges what you are saying @B20
Someone running at the 'line of defence' from the AM/F area is always handy
Dropping off & feeding the ball through for runners.
edit - I don't mean that in a way that esp challenges what you are saying @B20
Someone running at the 'line of defence' from the AM/F area is always handy
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Not really. He's a creative force that makes our wingers more of a goalscoring threat than they otherwise would be, but he doesn't make up for the fact that we basically attack with 3 players instead of 4 these days.
We've always played with an 8/10 player in midfield when possible under Klopp. Lallana, Coutinho, Chamberlain. That we wanted Fekir clearly shows that this need hasn't gone away.
Yes, got it now.
Gary Neville is also experienced enough to know that you can only really rotate when you have adequate players available to replace the better players who are regular starters. We certainly didn't have them last year, but it's possible - with only 8 league games gone remember - that the likes of Shaqiri & Sturridge will start more games this season, thus giving the likes of Firmino, Salah, & Mane, a break every now & then. Be interesting to know how many times Ferguson actually rested Ronaldo, Rooney, & Tevez in the league when you won the PL & CL in 2008.
Man united 2017/2018 after 8 games
Position 2nd
Points 20
GF - 21
GA - 2
Next Fixture: Huddersfield away
Spooky. And I sure did enjoy that open topped bus parade when we won the league last season after what was clearly a title winning start followed by an easy 9th game of the season away to some relegation fodder... oh wait!
Also our 18/19 stats are almost exactly the same as Liverpools in 17/18
Position - 8th
Points - 13
GF - 13
GA - 14
Does that mean we're reaching the CL final?
I don't see us dropping points in either of our next two. Arsenal away after that though which will be difficult.
Christmas will be tough for everyone and a real test of fitness/squad strength. If City are going to pull away I think they might be the period they do it.
It seems we have been focusing on defending rather going out on an all-out attack in every game. Games against the likes of Southampton we can use Shaq in midfield to provide ammunition to the forward players, but against the likes of City we don't press them as much. It seems different tactics are being used, especially in the tough fixture period. Probably start to see more of Sturridge, Keita and Fabinho after the int break.
I'm not sure exactly how many times Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez were rotated in 2008. But we didn't play a high pressing game like you lot are. What I can confirm is the League fixture against Chelsea, our title rivals, at Stamford bridge was a few days before the second leg of the champions league tie against Barcelona. Fergie made 9 changes. Imagine klopp doing that..?
Well in 15/16 Liverpool reached the Europa final and lost, and you know what happened in the 16/17 Europa finalAlso our 18/19 stats are almost exactly the same as Liverpools in 17/18
Position - 8th
Points - 13
GF - 13
GA - 14
Does that mean we're reaching the CL final?
& your 8th match was against one of your top 4 rivals & you drew 0-0
And defence was regarded as the best in England, if not in Europe...& your 8th match was against one of your top 4 rivals & you drew 0-0
Last season Firmino started 32 league games, Salah started 34, & Mane 28. Although Sadio was injured for a while which would account for a few of his non-starts. Just looked at United's appearance record in 2007/08. Tevez made 28 starts. Ronaldo also made 28 starts. However he served a 3 match suspension for a red-card offence, & I also believe he missed a couple of games through injury. Rooney only made 23 starts, but he missed a few games early on with a broken foot. Given that you had pretty good back-up with Nani & Saha, I'd say that Ferguson had the squad quality that we didn't have last season. But his main strikeforce of Tevez, Ronaldo, & Rooney - when available - didn't really get rested that much more than our 3 did last season. Despite the lack of rotation, we achieved more points in the 2nd half of the season than we did in the first. & this with us playing 3 games a week on a regular basis. So that flies in the face of this suggestion that our players get tired because of how we play. I do think though, that we'll see Klopp utilise the likes of Shaqiri & Sturridge quite a bit this season. It remains to be seen if Neville is right in the sense that rotation is a major factor in achieving success. I personally believe that players want to play as much as possible, especially if they're in a good run of form.
That's not exactly true though. WBA beat you in the FA cup in January and you played only in the PL and the CL for the rest of the season. And you didn't fare very well before/after CL games, did you?
We lost away to you, which was no great surprise really. Then we had 3 consecutive draws against Everton, West Brom, & Stoke, where Klopp made a multitude of changes in those 3 games. So 3 things on that. 1. We obviously didn't have the squad quality to cope. 2. It kinda backs up my point about rotation not being as important as some people think. 3. Regardless of all that, we still achieved more points in the 2nd half of last season than we did in the first.
TBF though, with the exception of ourselves, you'd have been expected to have comfortably won most of those first 8 matches. You even had a piss-easy CL group. It's not like you had to play Chelsea, Spurs, & City in league is it ? With a couple of tough CL fixtures against PSG & Napoli thrown in for good measure
Football isn't simple. I still think City will win the league. Just pleased with our start.
There're tired. I thought they have an incredible depth on their bench following a fantastic summer?
No one said that, stop making up things. If there was talk about our depth, the consensus was that we improved which we had to do, but that it still wasn’t close to City or even Chelsea.
We’re also not tired. It’s the beginning of October for crying out loud.
Well didn't Klopp say you're tired?
As for the depth, it was said all around, that you added to your depth so you can fight on all fronts.
Don't be so agressive.
It’s just a bit tiresome to see people putting words in our mouths when it were actually United fans collectively shitting themselves and bigging us up before the start of the season, not us.Well didn't Klopp say you're tired?
As for the depth, it was said all around, that you added to your depth so you can fight on all fronts.
Don't be so agressive.
To be expected though tbf, and I certainly didn’t mean to come off agressive
I was talking about the media and again about Klopp.It’s just a bit tiresome to see people putting words in our mouths when it were actually United fans collectively shitting themselves and bigging us up before the start of the season, not us.
To be expected though tbf, and I certainly didn’t mean to come off agressive
As for United fans shitting themselves, I agree, it's downright embarrasing.
Don't believe all you read, Ban. Make up your own mind!
Our depth is greater than what it was. But it's still nowhere near that of City's. We've had a hellish run in terms of fixtures and we've come through reasonably unscathed. You lot have your own to come, straight after the int'l break. Will be interesting to listen to what Jose has to say at the end of that period.
Jurgen Klopp celebrates his third anniversary of becoming Liverpool manager and the fact of the matter is that Klopp is yet to put any silverware into the Anfield trophy cabinet.
Now there’s something you don’t hear every day
Well I made up my mind and that is Klopp has a nice excuse.
Yet he's brought them back in to the CL (and even got them to a CL final, the first English team since Chelsea in 2012), massively improved the quality of the squad and had them playing fantastic football.
I know some on here have this narrow view of trophies or failure, but that completely underestimates the task Klopp was faced with when he took over. He's had investment recently, but at first he was really relying on a relatively modest budget aided by the sales of players they already had. Rodgers left a total mess of a squad behind (They lost 6-1 to Stoke, FFS!) and nobody would have been predicting they'd compete for the CL anytime soon.
Fact of the matter is he's done a great job, of course trophies would be fantastic, and will be more expected now he's spent good money, but it's far too simplistic to only focus on that.
Don't worry I'm in the process of making a banner which echo the sentiments of most Liverpool fans with regards to the trophy drought.
3 years of excuses of excuses & it's still crap. Ta-ra Jurgen.
What do you think ?
Indeed. You only have to look at the players in the squad when he arrived to what he has now. It's quite a stark difference.
The biggest thing he's done is align everybody / everything at the club. Something that Rodgers said he would do and didn't deliver. Klopp has and the improvements as a result are there to see.
But ultimately he will be remembered (outside the Liverpool fan base) for silverware. That's his biggest challenge now.
Could you not play Shaquiri there?
If it was Mourinho he'd be crucified by the media and everyone!!Now there’s something you don’t hear every day
Tried it for a 1st half against Southampton and despite playing very well he was hooked, because he wasn't savvy enough out of possession.
A question to Liverpool fans.
Chelsea v Man Utd a week on Saturday, Which team will you want to win ?
Chelsea v Man Utd a week on Saturday, Which team will you want to win ?
Chelsea to dish out an epic spanking.
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