Liverpool 2018/19

[Rob]

You'd think combined we'd match them on the bench at least, but on the first game of the season, weren't Aguero, Silva, and Jesus all on the bench?

Yep. Their squad depth is insane and makes the rest of us fight it out for the prestigious 2nd place trophy I do wonder if the owners will ever get bored or if this is just the way it is for the foreseeable future.

 

[El Zoido]

Yep. Their squad depth is insane and makes the rest of us fight it out for the prestigious 2nd place trophy I do wonder if the owners will ever get bored or if this is just the way it is for the foreseeable future.

It’s gonna be this way for decades I feel. Better get used to it.

 

[Red Star One]

I hate Liverpool with a living breathing passion. My half brother is a Liverpool fan. His dad was too. As my dad was a Manchester United fan.

But growing up with a sibling supporting your arch rivals, you learn that these things come in cycles and sometimes you just have to give credit where credit due. He hates United but recognises the brilliance of Ferguson, has read his autobiography etc., because he’s an exceptional leader.

The crux of my point is that, this is a brilliant Liverpool team and you have to say that Klopp is a wonderful manager. He’d have been a great appointment for United. Can still hate them, but also recognise that their recruitment, entertainment and progression is just excellent right now. They will be aggressively competing in the PL and CL again this season. And it makes me jealous. Klopp inherited a worse squad than Mourinho, has a lower net spend, and the football is in another stratosphere.

Oh I give a lot of credit to Liverpool and Klopp and admit this is probably the strongest Scouse side I have seen, Klopp managed to elevate them to next level and made them win games they would lose/draw few years ago (even the last one against CPL), but before I call him a wonderful manager I need to see Liverpool actually win something. And I really won't be surprised if they keep on playing "heavy metal", attractive, offensive and very alluring to neutrals football for another 2-3 years, yet end up without any trophy (or only with a League Cup) and if that's a case - Klopp would be far from "wonderful manager".
They seem to be in a much better shape than us though and I admit they pose a bigger threat to City and probably have a better chance than us in the CL (although both United and Liverpool are far from favorites) at the moment, which hurts me a lot.

 

[montpelier]

Yep. Their squad depth is insane and makes the rest of us fight it out for the prestigious 2nd place trophy I do wonder if the owners will ever get bored or if this is just the way it is for the foreseeable future.

They still have key players it would hurt them a lot to lose but I don't think we should be raising our hopes. But given an even set of breaks, if anyone gets close to them (10pts) in the league, they'll have done very well.

 

[Enigma_87]

I hate Liverpool with a living breathing passion. My half brother is a Liverpool fan. His dad was too. As my dad was a Manchester United fan.

But growing up with a sibling supporting your arch rivals, you learn that these things come in cycles and sometimes you just have to give credit where credit due. He hates United but recognises the brilliance of Ferguson, has read his autobiography etc., because he’s an exceptional leader.

The crux of my point is that, this is a brilliant Liverpool team and you have to say that Klopp is a wonderful manager. He’d have been a great appointment for United. Can still hate them, but also recognise that their recruitment, entertainment and progression is just excellent right now. They will be aggressively competing in the PL and CL again this season. And it makes me jealous. Klopp inherited a worse squad than Mourinho, has a lower net spend, and the football is in another stratosphere.

Klopp would make an excellent DoF, but as a manager he hasn't really proved himself in winning something with Pool.

 

[Joseforever]

Klopp is a wonderful manager. He’d have been a great appointment for United. Can still hate them, but also recognise that their recruitment, entertainment and progression is just excellent right now. They will be aggressively competing in the PL and CL again this season. And it makes me jealous. Klopp inherited a worse squad than Mourinho, has a lower net spend, and the football is in another stratosphere.

Klopp is a wonderful manager remind me what's he won in the last six years? You don't get anything for playing great football because if you don't win honours you having nothing to show for it.

Mourinho get's harsh criticism when his teams are not winning the big trophies because he's built his career on winning the big prizes. Klopp on the other hand is the loveable loser who despite losing six cup finals in a row still gets lauded for it compared to if Jose lost six cup finals in a row you would never hear the end of it from the press.

 

[Alex99]

It’s gonna be this way for decades I feel. Better get used to it.

I'm not unduly worried about this. Chelsea looked unstoppable at one point, then imploded. City have already had a couple of mini-meltdowns. Even PSG, for all their riches, haven't enjoyed uninterrupted domestic dominance, and haven't come close to a Champions League.

 

[Rouge McDuck]

''We won't pick the Best Actual GK by a fecking mile because he doesn't fit our tactics'' -

It’s not like you’re comparing DDG with Karius. You’ve got two players who are right at the top of the tree. DDG was the best GK in the Premier League last season, Alisson was the best in Italy, Oblak in Spain. So it’s not like we are talking about somebody who is poor in nets but can kick. It’s no insult to DDG to say if choose Alisson for some things.

Klopp would make an excellent DoF, but as a manager he hasn't really proved himself in winning something with Pool.

Liverpool weren’t in anywhere near a state to win anything when he took over two and a half seasons ago. He has gradually build them into what seems to be the best challengers to probably the best team in Premiership history. Before that he has absolutely proved himself.

 

[Jcrossley94]

Klopp would make an excellent DoF, but as a manager he hasn't really proved himself in winning something with Pool.

He did win two bundesliga titles against a very strong Bayern side.

 

[Rob]

It’s gonna be this way for decades I feel. Better get used to it.

That's my worry. But let's see, even Chelsea have slowed down a bit.

They still have key players it would hurt them a lot to lose but I don't think we should be raising our hopes. But given an even set of breaks, if anyone gets close to them (10pts) in the league, they'll have done very well.

And that's just the thing. Their squad depth is so good that even if a Silva or Aguero gets injured they still have a Mahrez or Sane or Sterling to take over. It's annoying really, as Liverpool haven't been in better shape for a title challenge in a long time, but City are still street ahead in every department.

 

[B20]

Klopp as a DoF would be such a waste.

 

[Jcrossley94]

Klopp as a DoF would be such a waste.

And utterly pointless. He’s got the personality, character and the vision to implement a playing style from the top of a club to the bottom.

 

[Enigma_87]

He did win two bundesliga titles against a very strong Bayern side.

What does that has to do with Liverpool tho?

 

[Jcrossley94]

What does that has to do with Liverpool tho?

Because you claimed that Klopp hadn’t yet proven himself a winner. But that’s a blatant untruth.

You can’t suggest that he has no record of winning - just because he hasn’t won anything yet at Liverpool. He didn’t win anything at Dortmund in his first couple of seasons either, but then he won back to back league titles.

I have no idea what you’re talking about when you say he’d make a great DOF but his record as a manager is questionable.

 

[Alex99]

He did win two bundesliga titles against a very strong Bayern side.

Nope. The first one he won, Bayern finished 3rd behind Bayer Leverkusen and were eliminated in the last 16 of the CL. Second one Bayern were getting back to their best, and then they blew Dortmund away every season after that.

 

[Enigma_87]

Because you claimed that Klopp hadn’t yet proven himself a winner. But that’s a blatant untruth.

You can’t suggest that he has no record of winning - just because he hasn’t won anything yet at Liverpool. He didn’t win anything at Dortmund in his first couple of seasons either, but then he won back to back league titles.

I have no idea what you’re talking about when you say he’d make a great DOF but his record as a manager is questionable.

Did you read my initial post?

 

[Can23]

Nope. The first one he won, Bayern finished 3rd behind Bayer Leverkusen and were eliminated in the last 16 of the CL. Second one Bayern were getting back to their best, and then they blew Dortmund away every season after that.

The season before he won the first one, Bayern came runners up in the UCL so they had a good team. When he won the 2nd one Bayern again came runners up in the UCL. Klopp did well with Dortmund i don't understand why people on here are so desperate to downplay his achievements.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Them dropping their first points can't come soon enough.

 

[Bergman]

Them dropping their first points can't come soon enough.

We have a stretch of games where we play City, Spurs and Chelsea in quick succession if we win our next 2 matches. It should do the job.

 

[Alex99]

The season before he won the first one, Bayern came runners up in the UCL so they had a good team. When he won the 2nd one Bayern again came runners up in the UCL. Klopp did well with Dortmund i don't understand why people on here are so desperate to downplay his achievements.

They might have been good the year before his first win, and good again the year after, but the fact remains that the year of his first win, Bayern were a bit naff, and not at all "very strong" as was suggested.

 

[Jcrossley94]

Did you read my initial post?

Yes

 

[Klopper76]

You can't have a joint United/Liverpool XI without De Gea in it. I'd definitely go for Lukaku over Firmino given the former's goal scoring record, amd Pogba's a given.

Them dropping their first points can't come soon enough.

As the post above said, we've got Chelse & Spurs away and Man City at home within a five game run and probably some CL/LC games thrown in amongst that. We'll drop points somewhere.

 

[Cassady]

No team is in with a great chance of winning the Premier League and Champions League, as evidenced by the fact that it's only been done twice in the history of both competitions (Manchester United 1998/99 & 2007/08). Liverpool finished 5th when they won it in 2004/05, and Chelsea finished 6th when they won it in 2011/12. Even if you include losing English finalists, you've only got Manchester United 2008/09 & 2010/11 as losing CL finalists and PL winners. Arsenal 2005/06 finished 4th, Liverpool 2006/07 finished 3rd, Chelsea 2007/08 finished 2nd, and Liverpool 2017/18 finished 4th. The only one of those four that got remotely close to the title was Chelsea in 2007/08.

Liverpool have recruited well, but we've only seen one English club reach successive CL finals, and that was arguably the best English club side ever (Manchester United 2007-09), and Liverpool finished 25 points adrift of City last season. Unless City truly go all out for the CL, I can't see them losing too much ground on last season, with even 12 points dropped still leaving Liverpool needing to make up 13 points on them and finish on ~90 points for the league.

1977 and 1984.

 

[bond19821982]

This current liverpool team is actually likeable from an attitude standpoint . No cnuts and pretty much grounded as well.

They will finish second quite comfortably.

 

[Alex99]

1977 and 1984.

And when did the Champions League start?

 

[Jcrossley94]

They might have been good the year before his first win, and good again the year after, but the fact remains that the year of his first win, Bayern were a bit naff, and not at all "very strong" as was suggested.

I think you’re being disingenuous to suggest that Bayern Munich weren’t strong during that period... “bit naff” is a ridiculous thing to say, especially when they scored a lot more goals than Dortmund in 2011 and in 2012 finished second ahead of the next team by nearly 10 points.

 

[Alex99]

I think you’re being disingenuous to suggest that Bayern Munich weren’t strong during that period... “bit naff” is a ridiculous thing to say, especially when they scored a lot more goals than Dortmund in 2011 and in 2012 finished second ahead of the next team by nearly 10 points.

Bayern were a bit naff in the year Klopp won his first title with Dortmund, which is the claim I made. I said they were good the year after, although obviously not as good as they were the year after again. They finished third in the league behind Bayer Leverkusen in 2010/11, and were turfed out of the CL in the first knockout round, changing manager partway through the season.

Klopp did well to win with Dortmund, but there's a bit of a myth surrounding it that makes out like he single-handedly put a stop to a period of Bayern dominance, which I think has come about because of how dominant Bayern have been since 2012/13. The facts are, however, that there were three different winners in Bundesliga in the four seasons prior to Klopp's first win, with Bayern in fact finishing 4th in one of those seasons and failing completely to qualify for the CL. They were a picture of inconsistency, which is demonstrated by the five managers they went through in that time. Heynckes got them going again in 2011/12, but Klopp's Dortmund proved themselves better over the course of the season, but in 2012/13 Klopp's Dortmund fell off a cliff and were nowhere near Bayern in any season again up until his departure.

None of this means Klopp didn't do a very good job, but history is slightly rewritten in his favour quite a lot.

He's done a good job at Liverpool too. Before his arrival they were firmly behind United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal and Spurs, and now they're very much in the mix at the top of that group. Time will tell if he can cement that place with some concrete success.

 

[Jeolous Ones Envy]

Salah
Martial
Mane
Firmino
Keita
Robertson
Vanydijk
Trent
Matip
Alisson
Sturbridge


4313 with Martial on the left, mane on the right, sturridge upfront, firmino in midfield. I would have started pogba there but he wrestles with the ball abit too much and would slows the tempo down

 

[Jcrossley94]

Bayern were a bit naff in the year Klopp won his first title with Dortmund, which is the claim I made. I said they were good the year after, although obviously not as good as they were the year after again. They finished third in the league behind Bayer Leverkusen in 2010/11, and were turfed out of the CL in the first knockout round, changing manager partway through the season.

Klopp did well to win with Dortmund, but there's a bit of a myth surrounding it that makes out like he single-handedly put a stop to a period of Bayern dominance, which I think has come about because of how dominant Bayern have been since 2012/13. The facts are, however, that there were three different winners in Bundesliga in the four seasons prior to Klopp's first win, with Bayern in fact finishing 4th in one of those seasons and failing completely to qualify for the CL. They were a picture of inconsistency, which is demonstrated by the five managers they went through in that time. Heynckes got them going again in 2011/12, but Klopp's Dortmund proved themselves better over the course of the season, but in 2012/13 Klopp's Dortmund fell off a cliff and were nowhere near Bayern in any season again up until his departure.

None of this means Klopp didn't do a very good job, but history is slightly rewritten in his favour quite a lot.

He's done a good job at Liverpool too. Before his arrival they were firmly behind United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal and Spurs, and now they're very much in the mix at the top of that group. Time will tell if he can cement that place with some concrete success.

I think we're having two different discussions.

My point to the OP was that to claim that Klopp wasn't a proven winner is just lazy and untrue. I take your point about the 11 season but you can't tell me that it's a great achievement and not an accident winning a league two seasons in a row.
Irrespective of Bayern's strength or weakness. Remove my comment about Bayern being strong (which I believe they still were especially in the 11/12 season) and the point still stands,

Or do you agree with me that it's an untrue argument to aim at Klopp that he's not a proven winner?

 

[Alex99]

I think we're having two different discussions.

My point to the OP was that to claim that Klopp wasn't a proven winner is just lazy and untrue. I take your point about the 11 season but you can't tell me that it's a great achievement and not an accident winning a league two seasons in a row.
Irrespective of Bayern's strength or weakness. Remove my comment about Bayern being strong (which I believe they still were especially in the 11/12 season) and the point still stands,

Or do you agree with me that it's an untrue argument to aim at Klopp that he's not a proven winner?

No, I don't really think Klopp is a proven winner. He enjoyed success over two consecutive seasons, having not won anything in the 10 years he managed prior to his first trophy (didn't top the division when he earned promotion with Mainz), and no hasn't won anything other than German equivalent to the Community Shield in the six years since his last trophy. He has lost six consecutive finals though.

Roberto di Matteo has an FA Cup and Champions League to his name, but he isn't a proven winner.

Klopp's a very good manager, don't get me wrong, but to keep harking back to two seasons in the sun as evidence of him being a proven winner is nonsense, especially when he's lost as many finals as he has since his last bit of silverware, without getting near a league title.

 

[Varun]

It’s gonna be this way for decades I feel. Better get used to it.

Only till Pep is there. Money alone doesnt guarantee domination.

 

[Enigma_87]

Yes

So, how many titles has Klopp won at Liverpool, spending 220m till last year?

 

[Jcrossley94]

So, how many titles has Klopp won at Liverpool, spending 220m till last year?

What is that relevant to?

 

[Enigma_87]

What is that relevant to?

simonlich compared Jose and Klopp at United and Pool, which let my reply that he hasn't really won anything at Pool to warrant that praise yet, and to want him at United. We are lacking a DoF and to me he would be a fine one, but I wouldn't welcome him here until he proves he can be a winner at a big club. Your posts in regards to Dortmund are really irrelevant as:

1. That happened 6 years ago.
And
2. the last memories from him at Dortmund were leaving them in relegation zone.

 

[hasanejaz88]

simonlich compared Jose and Klopp at United and Pool, which let my reply that he hasn't really won anything at Pool to warrant that praise yet, and to want him at United. We are lacking a DoF and to me he would be a fine one, but I wouldn't welcome him here until he proves he can be a winner at a big club. Your posts in regards to Dortmund are really irrelevant as:

1. That happened 6 years ago.
And
2. the last memories from him at Dortmund were leaving them in relegation zone.

Please, please stop this. They finished 7th and were finalist in the DFB Cup in the season he left.

 

[Jcrossley94]

simonlich compared Jose and Klopp at United and Pool, which let my reply that he hasn't really won anything at Pool to warrant that praise yet, and to want him at United. We are lacking a DoF and to me he would be a fine one, but I wouldn't welcome him here until he proves he can be a winner at a big club. Your posts in regards to Dortmund are really irrelevant as:

1. That happened 6 years ago.
And
2. the last memories from him at Dortmund were leaving them in relegation zone.

I don’t quite understand your logic...

Help me out

So you’re saying Jose has done a better job at united purely because he’s won two trophies?

 

[Enigma_87]

Please, please stop this. They finished 7th and were finalist in the DFB Cup in the season he left.

They were 16th till February.

 

[hasanejaz88]

They were 16th till February.

He didn't 'leave' them in the relegation zone. He left them with a European spot and a DFB final.

 

[Enigma_87]

I don’t quite understand your logic...

Help me out

So you’re saying Jose has done a better job at united purely because he’s won two trophies?

erm yes? He finished 2nd and won 2 trophies? Managers are judged by results. Liverpool finished 4th, 4th and 1 CL final lost in convincing fashion to Real.

 

[Enigma_87]

He didn't 'leave' them in the relegation zone. He left them with a European spot and a DFB final.

Point taken. Bad use of words.