Liverpool are a mess

[cyberman]

We have to remove 6 points from our attainable points. Away at city and away at Liverpool.

Scores of 2-4, 5-0, 4-0 and 7-0 in our recent games against our biggest rivals. Them tonking us so regularly with ease is shameful.

The 2-4 got them into the champions league for the 21-22 and they almost got the quadruple.

Taking them lightly had always been the theme for United players and this forum in general.

They currently have one of the top 2 managers in the world and yet writing them off so easily without any logic other than new players settling in is just

Two out of last them seasons have been disastrous for them.
Seems those writing them off last season were correct to do so

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Is this a wum thread? I’ve seen nothing to suggest the scousers are in a mess, unfortunately.

Liverpool are not in a mess, this thread is a bit of a nonsense (well the title certainly is). The have some excellent players, some good players and a few average players. Very similar to ourselves. They have added legs for the way they want to press, plus the fact they have one of the best managers in the world.

The thread was made in January when Liverpool were indeed treading water at best.
No idea why it’s appeared again, but I do think Liverpool currently will struggle if they don’t refresh their defence.
Others either feel the same or are hopeful that Liverpool don’t use their inhalers this year.

 

[Witchking]

Two out of last them seasons have been disastrous for them.
Seems those writing them off last season were correct to do so

Yes, but they have plugged in the holes that caused them issues last season and still they almost came close to finishing in the top 4.

Writing them off before even a single game has been played is a joke.

 

[The Purley King]

Van Dijk is cooked.
Think they’ll struggle defensively if he is still the lynchpin.
Question marks over the midfield even with lavia.
Up front if salah can keep going they’ll probably be ok, it’s the area of the pitch they are most stacked in, but overall unless everything really clicks (which it can do) am not overly bothered by their potential.
Top4 chasers just like us.

 

[Pexbo]

Fecking hate them but they will finish above us next season.

I just don’t think we have the midfield depth or enough goals in the team.

Our midfield is eons ahead of theirs.

 

[redcucumber]

I like the look of Lavia, but replacing Fabinho with him is begging for trouble. Can easily see that new midfield getting overrun and outbattled.

 

[marktan]

To be fair it’s not the first time you’ve been rumbled.

The classic I’ve watched him for years before he was born before it transpires the research goes as far as a 5 min YouTube video.

You're actually the worst poster on here, the whole page was literally me explaining how that was my view from YouTube, and then I watched Sancho a lot for Dortmund and got a negative view on him. Why not take 2 minutes to actually read the thread???

All you ever do is post insults with your shit takes. You were wrong on Sancho, wrong on Antony, stop quoting me all the time ffs.

Take the L and move on

What L? I was right on Sancho and Antony, you were wrong. So take your L, again. I don't even know why you're quoting me to gloat for an opinion I was right on.

You're also the chap who wanted us to sign Saint-Maximin.

Yeah that one I was wrong on, sadly. Thought he could go up a level, guess not. Bit of a waste of his career to go Saudi at 26.

 

[galwayfa]

Think they are closer than Man utd winning a league , they are a good base but i know new signings may do or not gel

 

[groovyalbert]

I think of all their outgoings they'll miss Fabinho the most. He had a poor season last time out, but he was honestly one of the best at his role in the game the previous 3 or so seasons.

Losing characters around the squad such as him, Henderson, Milner, Firmino and Mane is no easy task to undertake.

 

[Dumbstar]

Just trying to think of the options after all the changes this summer.

Lavia (most likely) - Fabinho
Thiago - Thiago
Mac Allister - Oxlade Chamberlain
Jones - Jones
Szoboszlai - Keita
Bajcetic - Henderson
Elliot - Elliott

Does seem a bit green and lightweight now.

To visualise more clearly I have listed our last season's pensioners, I mean midfielders side by side.

Which side would you prefer, left or right? I saw Hendo and Fab dominated by Sunday league players last season and God only knows which hospitals Thiago, Jones, Keita and Ox were at as backups.

 

[GoonerBear]

To visualise more clearly I have listed our last season's pensioners, I mean midfielders side by side.

Which side would you prefer, left or right? I saw Hendo and Fab dominated by Sunday league players last Sunday and God only knows which hospitals Thiago, Jones, Keita and Ox were at as backups.

I think you bought potentially very good players, but I think like others that changing too much at 1 time isn't a great thing.
Lavia has good potential but is inexperienced, Szoboszlai is super talented but Leipzig played him a lot in a wide midfield role to get others in centrally. Mac Allister should be good if you can get the balance with the others right.
Then there's the intangibles that you are losing with 3 leaders leaving.

Listen, it might work, it might all click straight away, all I'm saying is I'd be uncomfortable hitting the gorund running with a full new engine room, that's why I was very hesitant in Arsenal losing both Partey and Xhaka in the 1 window.

 

[Dumbstar]

I think you bought potentially very good players, but I think like others that changing too much at 1 time isn't a great thing.
Lavia has good potential but is inexperienced, Szoboszlai is super talented but Leipzig played him a lot in a wide midfield role to get others in centrally. Mac Allister should be good if you can get the balance with the others right.
Then there's the intangibles that you are losing with 3 leaders leaving.

Listen, it might work, it might all click straight away, all I'm saying is I'd be uncomfortable hitting the gorund running with a full new engine room, that's why I was very hesitant in Arsenal losing both Partey and Xhaka in the 1 window.

I hear what you're saying, we're all waiting to see if the new boys can click quick enough. But with these changes alone we're looking at fresh uninjured young legs that will guarantee us another 10 points minimum over last season. I'm pretty confident on that. Hendo, Fab, Keita and Ox last season were the worst 4 midfielders in any team in any league across Europe.

Those extra 10 points minimum will guarantee us top 4. Partey and Xhaka on the other hand last season were on fire! Of course you wouldn't want to change one or both. The extreme opposite case to our midfielders.

 

[RedNome]

I hear what you're saying, we're all waiting to see if the new boys can click quick enough. But with these changes alone we're looking at fresh uninjured young legs that will guarantee us another 10 points minimum over last season. I'm pretty confident on that. Hendo, Fab, Keita and Ox last season were the worst 4 midfielders in any team in any league across Europe.

Those extra 10 points minimum will guarantee us top 4. Partey and Xhaka on the other hand last season were on fire! Of course you wouldn't want to change one or both. The extreme opposite case to our midfielders.

Your overuse of the word guaranteed is amusing, who are you trying to convince here?

 

[Charlie Foley]

We have to remove 6 points from our attainable points. Away at city and away at Liverpool.

Scores of 2-4, 5-0, 4-0 and 7-0 in our recent games against our biggest rivals. Them tonking us so regularly with ease is shameful.

The 2-4 got them into the champions league for the 21-22 and they almost got the quadruple.

Taking them lightly had always been the theme for United players and this forum in general.

They currently have one of the top 2 managers in the world and yet writing them off so easily without any logic other than new players settling in is just

If we beat them 5-0 that day they’d have still finished top 4 on goal difference

 

[Witchking]

If we beat them 5-0 that day they’d have still finished top 4 on goal difference

A defeat against us and probably their morale might have gone. May have dropped more points. Lost more games. They had a bad home streak back in December that season. You never know.

 

[Daily_Blind]

I think Onana will help when playing against them b/c he'll be able to pass through that high press more easily than De Gea ever would.

 

[erikcred]

If we beat them 5-0 that day they’d have still finished top 4 on goal difference

If we'd beaten them that day, they'd have 57 points after 35 games and Chelsea already had 64 points after 36 games, Leicester had 66 points after 36 games.

We could've crushed their CL hopes that day and didn't. That's the truth.

 

[foolsgold]

Too early to say that they are a mess, but they're a club in transition. There's been a lot of changes over the last 18 months and it's hard to say exactly where they are just now. I think they still have one big change, a new manager, to go before they are realistic title challengers again.

 

[Bubz27]

13 posts on Instagram about their mew captain and vice captain. Only had a break to thank Fabinho. The strive to epicdom continues. This. Means. More.

 

[RobinLFC]

13 posts on Instagram about their mew captain and vice captain. Only had a break to thank Fabinho. The strive to epicdom continues. This. Means. More.

You don't need to follow a rival's Instagram account if it annoys you that much, you know.

 

[GoonerBear]

I hear what you're saying, we're all waiting to see if the new boys can click quick enough. But with these changes alone we're looking at fresh uninjured young legs that will guarantee us another 10 points minimum over last season. I'm pretty confident on that. Hendo, Fab, Keita and Ox last season were the worst 4 midfielders in any team in any league across Europe.

Those extra 10 points minimum will guarantee us top 4. Partey and Xhaka on the other hand last season were on fire! Of course you wouldn't want to change one or both. The extreme opposite case to our midfielders.

Fair points, although I'm not sure you can guarantee anything in this league.

13 posts on Instagram about their mew captain and vice captain. Only had a break to thank Fabinho. The strive to epicdom continues. This. Means. More.

I've literally come from there where the Trent post was on my suggested wall so went and had a look, did think that was a tad excessive.

 

[MegadrivePerson]

People talk about making too many changes but it's no different to how Ten Hag changed the midfield here really. Replacing Mcfred with Casemiro and Eriksen was a huge upgrade. Liverpool are essentially doing something similar by replacing Fabinho and Henderson with Lavia and Mac Alister.

They will also benefit massively from being in the Europa, so will be able to rest and rotate midweek.

 

[Dumbstar]

Fair points, although I'm not sure you can guarantee anything in this league.

I agree, I think I did over use the word guarantee @RedNome

I will add the context that these new (young) midfielders will guarantee us 10 additional points minimum even if we experience the same fatigue of last season along with the same long injuries to Diaz, Jota, Nunez, Jones, Thiago, Konate and Robbo.

I concede these 10 additional points may not guarantee top 4 though as Chelsea, Newcastle and Utd may all finish with above 80 points judging by their purchases and new management, settling in, etc.

 

[Bubz27]

You don't need to follow a rival's Instagram account if it annoys you that much, you know.

Oh really? How do you unfollow? Who do I have to write a letter to?

 

[sullydnl]

People talk about making too many changes but it's no different to how Ten Hag changed the midfield here really. Replacing Mcfred with Casemiro and Eriksen was a huge upgrade. Liverpool are essentially doing something similar by replacing Fabinho and Henderson with Lavia and Mac Alister.

They will also benefit massively from being in the Europa, so will be able to rest and rotate midweek.

Slightly different though given the age and experience profile of the signings.

When you sign players like Eriksen and Casemiro you expect them to hit the ground running, that's part of the the point of signing them rather than younger players with greater shelf life but less experience at the highest level. And they were being added alongside Bruno, another player coming into his peak years who was already bedded in to the club.

It's a bit unfair to have the same expectations of the Liverpool signings given their profile.

 

[Traub]

I agree, I think I did over use the word guarantee @RedNome

I will add the context that these new (young) midfielders will guarantee us 10 additional points minimum even if we experience the same fatigue of last season along with the same long injuries to Diaz, Jota, Nunez, Jones, Thiago, Konate and Robbo.

I concede these 10 additional points may not guarantee top 4 though as Chelsea, Newcastle and Utd may all finish with above 80 points judging by their purchases and new management, settling in, etc.

It's top 5 now, and Spurs look even worse this year. So it's 6 into 5 now most probably. It gives everyone an extra chance. Plus there is still the Europa League place.

I think you may be one season too early on the guaranteed 10 additional points. Agreed you will obviously be better. The bigger concern is replacing VVD soon and - more importantly - replacing Salah in 24 months most likely.

 

[cafecillos]

What if it's only 9 additional points?

 

[Dumbstar]

It's top 5 now, and Spurs look even worse this year. So it's 6 into 5 now most probably. It gives everyone an extra chance. Plus there is still the Europa League place.

I think you may be one season too early on the guaranteed 10 additional points. Agreed you will obviously be better. The bigger concern is replacing VVD soon and - more importantly - replacing Salah in 24 months most likely.

Damn, I forgot it's top 5 next season. Shiiieet. There's very little excuse for the team that finishes 6th, even if that's us/Klopp.

VvD is a concern just like Fabinho and Henderson were last season and this summer. I think we will go big on defenders in January or next summer. If Jota, Diaz, Gakpo and Nunez start performing under Klopp then we will hardly notice the transition from Mane/Firmino/Salah. Big if though, as Klopp would need to hang around for longer. He's the only irreplaceable guy at the club.

 

[Keanes Magic Hat]

They are not a mess, they will finish above Arsenal I reckon.

 

[Rob]

Think I’ve mentioned it earlier, but if we end up signing Lavia and only Lavia for the dm position, it’s an accident waiting to happen imo.

In an ideal orld, we get Lavia + a more experienced face like Amrabat.

Tbh, I also think our cb situation is a bit suspect, but don’t see us acting on ot this window.

 

[Kostov]

I think Onana will help when playing against them b/c he'll be able to pass through that high press more easily than De Gea ever would.

We have something like 40+:3 goal difference at Enfield in the last 10 seasons, we need more than Onana to stop that crap run.

 

[erikcred]

Think I’ve mentioned it earlier, but if we end up signing Lavia and only Lavia for the dm position, it’s an accident waiting to happen imo.

In an ideal orld, we get Lavia + a more experienced face like Amrabat.

Tbh, I also think our cb situation is a bit suspect, but don’t see us acting on ot this window.

Agree. As long as you keep conceding first you're going to have trouble across the season. It seems strange that you're not adding to your defence this summer. I guess Klopp is hoping for the fresh legs in midfield to cover for the defence like they used to in 2018-2020.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

What if it's only 9 additional points?

He said the 10 points were guaranteed.

 

[Dumbstar]

Agree. As long as you keep conceding first you're going to have trouble across the season. It seems strange that you're not adding to your defence this summer. I guess Klopp is hoping for the fresh legs in midfield to cover for the defence like they used to in 2018-2020.

Conceding first often, and then sometimes second straight after, was a mind blowing experience last season. It was surreal. Defence was horrendous but it was all about that non-midfield that allowed it all to unfold. Hopefully we can protect that defence a little better this time around.

 

[Rossa]

Does Lavia have the same ability to avoid bookings like Fabinho? If not, they may be in trouble next season.

 

[cyberman]

Damn, I forgot it's top 5 next season. Shiiieet. There's very little excuse for the team that finishes 6th, even if that's us/Klopp.

VvD is a concern just like Fabinho and Henderson were last season and this summer. I think we will go big on defenders in January or next summer. If Jota, Diaz, Gakpo and Nunez start performing under Klopp then we will hardly notice the transition from Mane/Firmino/Salah. Big if though, as Klopp would need to hang around for longer. He's the only irreplaceable guy at the club.

The big obstacle for them is the EL. Even if they don’t take it seriously they’re up against Spurs and Chelsea only playing one game a week and not constant dead times of 12/2pm on a Sunday for most of the season.
It’ll be better for them going out altogether than playing some mixed starting 11 while pretending it has no impact

 

[erikcred]

Does Lavia have the same ability to avoid bookings like Fabinho? If not, they may be in trouble next season.

I hope he has Casemiro's ability to avoid bookings in the PL.

 

[Bubz27]

Conceding first often, and then sometimes second straight after, was a mind blowing experience last season. It was surreal. Defence was horrendous but it was all about that non-midfield that allowed it all to unfold. Hopefully we can protect that defence a little better this time around.

Are you a 10 year old Liverpool fan?

 

[Dumbstar]

Are you a 10 year old Liverpool fan?

Strange question. Does anyone else in this thread find it strange too?

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Seen a Klopp quote saying Trent can play as the 6, so yeah thread title probably correct