I swear I’ve read you in the Hojlund thread about spending 60m on a young striker and you come out with this?
Liverpool are a mess
- Thread starter OldSchoolManc
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Have you not read Mainoo his performance topic? Mainoo his season is over and gone he is injured for 2 months actuallyWe got Mainoo
They’ll be very good this season regrettably.
We are always doomed at the Caf
Nah that’s not me? I have concerns about his goal record but his age is no concern of mine I prefer signing younger players
Lavia is so overrated on here its actually laughable.
Sigh! You should look up a rhetorical device called hyperbole.
The point is that both these players underperformed so severely last season that no Liverpool fans have expressed disappointment about them leaving (on sporting grounds, ignoring the Saudi discussion happening on other threads). So, while oversimplifying everything to "they lost 4 players and signed 2 or 3, big deal" is very tempting, that completely ignores the fact that two of the four were on their last legs, the other two didn't have legs (again, not to be taken literally) and the two signings so far are exciting prospects, one of whom played a major role in a World Cup victory.
The grass is always greener on the other side.
As I've said in my original post, I've watched all three and think all 3 are good. Wouldn't surprise me at all for them to make a strong midfield 3.
Of course it looks like hindsight but it's just poor scouting. I watched Sancho a lot as he was English and I knew he wouldn't make it here. Ole signed him because of the hype and him being English. If you watched him regularly you'd see the lack of acceleration and the sorry state of the defences he scored goals against.
Antony I didn't want either, didn't follow him bit watched his goals and assists and immediately you could tell how limited he was. 90% of his goals and assists were him cutting in and shooting / crossing, poor defences, almost never dribbled his man.
Nunez there's this Chelsea fan on here who regularly goes to Benfica games as he lives there, he said that Nunez was seriously overrated and would struggle. Pool signed him because he had one great game against them.
In the end.. it's just bad scouting. Liverpool seem to have sorted out this summer, but we're still relying on getting whomever the manager wants.. which is a terrible idea because no manager has time to properly scout players. He's largely stuck to players that have played under him already, which mostly has worked, but with Mount and Hojlund I think we'll see the limitations of that strategy.
Btw r.e. Mount we already have enough cogs in Fred and Mctominay. Someone that actually does something with the ball too would be nice.
Sorry mate, I’m just a guesser like most folk and I must’ve been swept along by the hype, but it wasn’t just Ole (a bloke who’d spent some time involved in the football malarkey) and a bunch of very expensive full-time highly experienced professional football scouts who were raving about Sancho, it was every Utd supporter I knew at the time, also the vast majority of supporters on this very forum, longstanding football pundits across the piste and indeed the England camp and football supporters in the UK and Germany in general.
If you knew that he’d be a flop in advance then you were in a very small minority and you must be involved in the game at quite a high level and if not then you really ought to be.
That lack of acceleration thing that you’d noted in your own scouting of Sancho, well the scouting team at Utd must be kicking themselves for not noticing that particular debilitating trait when they watched him dozens of times, scrutinised his performances down to the last detail and studied his statistics going right back through his development. To focus a scouting operation on a major signing and to rely on the hype rather than doing the actual scouting was very remiss of them.
Re Antony, ditto, you knew best and the world should’ve listened.
Re Nunez, well I didn’t pay much attention to him being sworn into the order of those afflicted with that awful spitty accent, and I’m glad they didn’t listen to the Chelsea fan who comes on here sometimes because I quite enjoy having a laugh at the posts on rawk where they share their deluded ramblings about how his unconventional lack of ability in senior football will suddenly flower into a new type of brilliance.
Re Mount? Funny but me in my ignorance, I see him as being a better kind of cog than the very basic cogs that Fred or McTominay attempt to be. I see him as being much more press resistant, much more cultured, much more able to read a game. I see him as an intelligent player who knows when to hold and when to release quickly. The kind of not so flashy player who operates right in the middle of the game to make everything work around him.
But, then again, I‘m only a guesser and what with you knowing the failings of Sancho and Antony before the rest of football caught on I‘m now having a bit of a downer on the guy . . Suppressing my expectations and what have you ;-)
Anyhow Mark, I apologise right here for slipping into sarcasm. I know it’s not a good look but it kind of felt right to wrap my response in a bit of absurdity, mostly for the sake of injecting humour but also so that you’d know that I‘m trying to be open and affable and that I can disagree on a topic without taking any of this too seriously.
And ok so I’m a doubter but I’m also happy to be convinced. In fact it may be the case that I’d agree with every other utterance you’ve ever made and this might be the exception. So I’ll keep an eye out for your posts and read them with interest.
I was a regular reader of this forum for many years, before recently signing up, and I read the threads in here because thinkers such as yourself were posting (you do truly write very well and, whether I agree with what you write or not, I appreciate the way you explain yourself).
And btw I’d have ‘liked‘ your post but I’m a newby and I don’t think I have the requisite permissions to ‘like’ a post . . or I just haven’t sussed it yet.
Finally; if what you said about your foreknowledge with regard to Sancho & Antony holds true, prior to other unexpected declines in previously respected players, then I guess I’ll be doffing my cap to you on a regular basis in future.
Onwards and upwards eh?
Agreed.
You are hugely overrating Lavia.
He's Casemiro if he was actually god.
People seem to forget that Fabinho two seasons ago was amazing for them. He was key player in midfield. He was defensive midfielder with playmaking ability.
I don't see in Lavia that kind of player.
Currently being outplayed by Leicester in the opening ten minutes of their friendly
Writing off Liverpool before a minute of competitive football has been played is really stupid. There are question marks over the midfield, sure, but the rest of the starting XI looks pretty good to me, and they have a point to prove after last season. Europa League will be a hindrance though.
I'd say solidly top four, but not a title challenger.
I'd say solidly top four, but not a title challenger.
I think they're fortunate that they could sell both Fabinho and Henderson for ridiculous fees, and therefore rebuild their whole midfield. They still miss a DM, but they will have a very good summer if they get Lavia. I still have my doubts about their defense though and although they have good attackers I'm unsure any of them are world class (Salah obviosuly before but is he still?).
They'll be right up there. Klopp won't be arsed with Europa - he never bothered with the FA Cup and League Cup in his first few seasons there, so I definitely can't see him playing a strong team in EL with the Thurs-Sun schedule.
Salah was the most productive attacker in the league after the new year - he's definitely world class. Diaz is probably their second best attacker, and they missed him nearly all of last season yet they still scored 75 goals in the league (2 more than we've ever managed post Ferguson).
Leicester playing through their press with ease here. Interesting how teams have adapted to being pressed in general since Klopp first came in and terrorised the league with it for a few seasons
Yeah I know, but we will see what happens now. Salah can't keep that up forever. With that said, their attack is obviously their strongest position (aside from GK)
They have loads of bodies in their squad though, except perhaps in one or two defensive positions. Quality of the first XI is the question for them, not really that of the second fiddle. Taking the central midfield as an example and forgetting Lavia for a second:
Thiago, MacAllister, Jones, Trent (admittedly leaves them short at RB if he's in midfield), Szoboszlai, Bajcetic. Numbers aren't the issue there, and even less so if they still make another signing as expected. Quality, experience, and tactical fit are the issue.
Saw this and looked up the score. Maybe the bloody German knows what he's doing this season.
They have a much better team than Leicester who are a championship side. Typical poor finishing / final pass choice during the first 20 minutes else Leicester would have been 1 or 2 goals up.
I think he’s a very good player with the potential to be one of the best DM’s in the league. 19 years old full Belgium international on the verge of a 50m move to Liverpool there’s no argument to be had.
Really wish we was In for him instead of Amrobat
So, looks like Klopp is going full Pep this year. 3-2-4-1 on offense. TAA inverting into DM; you know the drill.
Whilst they were certainly past their best losing key experienced figures from the squad in Milner, Henderson and Fabinho can disrupt things beyond the obvious. We've seen at united post fergie how difficult it is to correct the culture once things start to slip.
I still remain sceptical of TAA in the side. Some nice touches in midfield against dross for England and people start losing their minds. He's still as likely to lose you a game as he is to win you one imo
Nunez and Gakpo still have a lot to prove if they're to replicate mane and Fabinho.
Having said all that they still have an absolutely exceptional manager who produces relentless front foot football which blows away anything that fails to match their energy, once he gets some momentum going they put together huge runs of wins
They'll be in the pack with us and arsenal all being ahead of Chelsea and spurs
I still remain sceptical of TAA in the side. Some nice touches in midfield against dross for England and people start losing their minds. He's still as likely to lose you a game as he is to win you one imo
Nunez and Gakpo still have a lot to prove if they're to replicate mane and Fabinho.
Having said all that they still have an absolutely exceptional manager who produces relentless front foot football which blows away anything that fails to match their energy, once he gets some momentum going they put together huge runs of wins
They'll be in the pack with us and arsenal all being ahead of Chelsea and spurs
Lavia is a great pick, would have wanted us to get him over Mount.
You mean Firmino?
2 completely different players
Have they signed him?
He's a weird one, so many journalists that I respect think he's fantastic - but the few times I saw him I was underwhelmed and his stats are distinctly meh
Attempting to I believe.
Yeah my bad
I was not - you're looking at my earlier posts on him. I watched him a lot thereafter for Dortmund where I really got to see him. If you want to search, search the transfer thread where I said the price we were paying was way above what he's actually worth. I was quite vocal about it.
You do know we can see your old posts right? You were one of Sancho’s biggest fans.
E.g. see the transfer thread https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jadon-sancho-£72-9m-fee-agreed.463238/page-161#post-27392421
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/is-...lus-million-fee.457639/page-125#post-27288351
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jadon-sancho-£72-9m-fee-agreed.463238/page-38#post-27328808
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Or, July 2020:
or October 2020:
What’s extremely clear with you is that it doesn’t matter how much you rate a player, as we get closer to signing them for big money, you get more pessimistic by the day. It’s more than a bit odd. You literally went from calling him one of the best dribblers in the World and a game changer, to shitting your pants about him just 2 months later as his fee became apparent. It appears you care more about fees than anything else when forming your opinion.
Utterly utterly bizarre.
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FFS RAB
You do know we can see your old posts right? You were one of Sancho’s biggest fans.
Read my post again, I watched him a lot in his final year at Dortmund and so my opinion changed. Before that I was basing my opinion on YouTube highlights. I linked you to posts from the summer of 2021, I don't know why you're still quoting posts from a year earlier.
I mean literally look at one of the posts I linked to - I was spot on on my assessment of him -
And yes, I valued him at around £40m by the summer of 2021. Was I wrong? I valued Antony at around £40m, was I wrong? I value Hojlund at that too, I doubt I'll be wrong.marktan said:
Better than 90% of this place that never watched either Sancho or Antony and thought they were great signings. I don't know why you're quoting me anyway, my post was replying to someone who said that Sancho and Antony were rated by everyone.. they were not. This isn't really relevant to this Liverpool thread.
ha ha,FFS RAB
Casemiro was almost funnier still, ranting and raving at how amazing he was in every single post, until of course we signed on for bigish money, then….
he’s not big on the young new striker we’re about to sign either, but thought Bissouma would have been better than Cas.
I can only assume the lad just prefers Glazers to keep money in the bank.