Liverpool on brink of being sold (now actually sold) (what could possibly go wrong?)

Murphman

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But you weren't taking the piss. You were deadly serious, especially about your brand new 70,000 seater stadium that was definitely going to be built.

Coming in here, shouting your mouth off 'you're all secretly gutted, our yanks are better than your yanks' shows you probably haven't learnt your lesson.

I doubt many United fans are really that gutted about your ownership situation. Could have been alot better for you, could have been alot worse.

I don't think many would really want to see Liverpool go totally down the shitter, so a chance at some stability is hard to begrudge (despite how unbearable fans like you become at the first glimmer of hope).
I was taking the piss, largely. The stadium however was central to their plans, without it nothing worked, I think even Hicks was surprised it wasn't built. Sorry if you think I'm 'unbearable' Krafty, but feck me but you're touchy aintcha?

And it's not a case of 'our yanks' or 'your yanks', it's about THE English footballing institutions being raped. Take it or leave it, I'm not arsed either way.
 

Drifter

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New England Sports Ventures are prepared to finance the signing of a world-class player for Liverpool in January - but only if the price is right, claims director of football strategy Damien Comolli.

Comolli was brought in earlier this month to oversee recruitment and the development of the academy.

Principal owner John Henry and NESV chairman Tom Werner will not release funds for the right individual unless it fits into their business plan for The Reds.

"We have a pretty good idea of what we would like to do and we have identified targets," Comolli said.

"If there's a possibility of us getting a world-class player, we will have the backing.

"John and Tom want to win - and you win with top players.

"If it can be done in January, great. If it can't because we feel it is the wrong market or players are overpriced, then we will wait.

"I'm not going to say we won't do anything in January because that is not the idea at the moment.

"We will do what is right for the long term. What is right for the long term can be something we do in January."

From what he has seen in his short period at Anfield, the Frenchman does not believe the problems are as bad as they are sometimes portrayed.

"The club is not in a bad state. We've had some great results. It's not in ruins. Everything is there to be successful," he told BBC Sport.

"We have to win and bring back trophies. For a club this size, it's not about top six or top four - we must win everything that's winnable."
 

Doogie

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This is pretty interesting read from Martin Samuel
Imagine if Joel Glazer, the joint chairman of Manchester United, told a room full of journalists that he was a big supporter of the 39th game idea. Not only that, but he wanted to take a real humdinger of a match, perhaps one of the marquee fixtures of the season, abroad. 'The more important the game, the more excitement,' said Joel.

There would, understandably, be uproar. We would hear from columnists, custodians and every fan pressure group.

The disaffected at Manchester United would take to the airwaves claiming this is precisely the sort of stance that demonstrates why the Glazers should not be in charge of their club.

It would be claimed that they have no feel for the supporters or for English football, its history and heritage. All they are interested in, we would be told, is the bottom line, and if that comes from the Far East or the West Coast, they would sell out our fans in the blink of an eye.

So what happened when Tom Werner, chairman of Liverpool, said it? Exactly that statement. The quote falsely placed in the mouth of Joel Glazer in the first paragraph. Nothing. Not a squeak of protest, not a murmur of dissent.

Werner, the man who will run Liverpool on behalf of the new American owner John Henry, strongly advocated a scheme that has come to represent everything crass and commercial about the modern game, and was good-naturedly disregarded.

This is what is known as a honeymoon period.

Henry is fortunate that his stewardship is still being assessed in the most benign terms, because to peer beneath the surface may give concern.

Advocacy of the 39th game, of debt, a stadium project that may now take four years to complete, a reluctance to address the weakness of the squad in the January transfer window, these are all stories that have emerged from the Henry camp in recent weeks, and failed to attract juicier headlines than his wife Linda picking up singing tips from the Kop on Twitter.

Henry is new to football. It is clearly too much to expect that he should fall immediately in step with the traditionalism of the Spirit of Shankly.

Yet while scepticism meets the announcement that the Glazers are to pay off the cursed PIK loans with £220m from outside the club, the Henry regime can make statements that support seismic change in English football and we smile politely.

Nobody is saying Henry is a fool. Subjects such as global expansion and club debt are being debated constantly in football club boardrooms, while taking time to plan a £400m project is only sensible. Nor would he be the first to decide that the January transfer window is a minefield best left unexplored.

Yet it remains true that had such pronouncements or stratagems come from a Glazer or a sheik they would not have passed without comment. Henry has been painted as the antidote to a slew of dubious foreign owners, but he might not be that different after all.

This is his chairman, Werner, on the 39th game. 'Pre-season matches are great but why not have an actual match in the season? The Premier League is the strongest league in the world and its reach is global. The number of people globally who watch has impressed me and we hope to expand that imprint. I think the more important the game, the more excitement.'

This is Henry on debt. 'It is a big issue with Manchester United, but the New York Yankees have a debt of $3.5billion and I have never heard a Yankee fan complain because they built a $1.5bn stadium. The difference is between stadium and acquisition debt.'

No, the difference is the $2bn that the Yankees owe that is nothing to do with the stadium, but who is counting? Certainly not us. We're too busy admiring the lovely Linda to be thrown by the fact that the new owners of Liverpool quite fancy a match in Honolulu.

Look at Werner's quote again. He is not advocating an extra round of fixtures. His plan is not for the whole league to decamp to different continents on one, mad, weekend, but to cherry-pick a fabulous fixture - it could be one of Liverpool's home matches against Manchester United or Chelsea - and send it to Singapore, the way the NFL do with their one-off games at Wembley.

It is as unnerving a statement as has been made by any chairman in 10 years, a far more radical proposal than the one abandoned by Premier League chief executive Richard Scudamore in 2008.

Many owners would agree with Henry about the Yankees' debt, but fans would not. Fans are obsessed by red numbers right now. They have all been turned into accountants by the Glazer regime at Old Trafford and if club debt looks to affect the ability to run up more debt by spending on players, the balloon really goes up.

Yet Henry continues to enjoy an easy ride, because the debt he talks about will finance a new stadium. Maybe.

Henry 's people are currently revisiting the plans for a £200m facelift at Anfield, mothballed in 2005, taking the capacity to 65,000. This is a wise move. They are also reassessing the development at Stanley Park. Again, this is sensible. The time-frame for these projects, however, has now lengthened to 2014, meaning there could be another four seasons of Liverpool falling behind more robust rivals.

If the club spent that long without Champions League football, what calibre of players would grace the new stadium? History means little to the modern footballer. These days nobody joins Nottingham Forest because they are bewitched by the glory years under Brian Clough.

And by the sound of it nobody joins Liverpool at all until next summer. Roy Hodgson greeted the Henry regime by talking up the changes that needed to be made in January, but the manager has gone quiet on the subject of late.

Henry told a fans group that immediate investment was unlikely and he had been advised that to thrive in the volatile January market was difficult. Yes it is, but not impossible.

'The current players must each week live up to the history and respect the club has engendered,' Henry announced, by way of solution. They can't. They're not good enough. That was why the manager was rather hoping to open for business at the start of next year.

None of this makes Henry a bad guy, just a not so very different guy. Perhaps Liverpool's supporters are so grateful to Henry for saving them from Tom Hicks and George Gillett that they will accept any crack in the paintwork. Maybe they simply think Henry and Werner are new to our game and will learn; or maybe we will.

Read more: MARTIN SAMUEL: Are John Henry's Liverpool crew just Double Glazers? | Mail Online
 

711

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This is pretty interesting read from Martin Samuel
That's a fecking good article that's made me re-evaluate the whole '39th game' thing.

It wouldn't have to be a 39th game. Let's suppose United played their home game against Liverpool in New York, and their away game in Singapore. What difference would it make to the the rest of the league, and the league table?

Big difference to the home match-going fans of course, but it could work.
 

RedMist99

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Don't even begin to try and justify it in the slightest. The day that happens is probably the day I walk away from football completely.
 

Ole's_toe_poke

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This is pretty interesting read from Martin Samuel
Good read from Samuel. It is obvious though that Henry will enjoy an easy ride from the fans for a few months. After all he did save them from big bad Hicks and Gillette. And the nature of the takeover with all the drama was such that he has instant hero status.

The next few months will be interesting to see what he does. The fans can turn pretty quick. Like they did with H&G.
 

Dumbstar

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So Martin Samuel is basically saying (to try to fill column inches) we're f*cked once the honeymoon period is over and we have another version of the Glazers. We could potentially be f*cked like Man Utd are. Thanks Martin, didn't know.

Next week by MSamuel: Global warming could melt ice caps but are we conserving energy....ohhhhh no!
 

Ole's_toe_poke

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So Martin Samuel is basically saying (to try to fill column inches) we're f*cked once the honeymoon period is over and we have another version of the Glazers. We could potentially be f*cked like Man Utd are. Thanks Martin, didn't know.
That's totally what he didn't say. :lol:
 

M'n'M

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Perhaps the fans are waiting to see what the new owners do before assuming the worst. How long has it been now? About 6 weeks?

On the stadium issue, personally I have no problem waiting 4 years for a new stadium/extension if it means we concentrate on sorting the team out first. As for debt, anyone who thinks we can build a new stadium without taking on any debt is a fool, it's whether or not that debt is easily affordable is the issue. How many of you paid cash for your house?
 

Sam.G

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Liverpool fans whinge about the new owners, "people" bleat 'wait and see'.

Liverpool fans keep schtum and wait and see, "people" bleat 'honeymoon period'.

"People" are stupid.

If the cap fits, wear it.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Liverpool fans whinge about the new owners, "people" bleat 'wait and see'.

Liverpool fans keep schtum and wait and see, "people" bleat 'honeymoon period'.

"People" are stupid.

If the cap fits, wear it.
What does that make the whinging/keeping schtum Liverpool fans?

More to the point, what is the stance of the "not stupid" Liverpool fans? Are they suggesting to wait and see? Or worried this is just a honeymoon period? Or something else?

You're very quick to call people stupid. I'm curious to hear where the smart money is here.
 

CnutOfAllCnuts

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That's a fecking good article that's made me re-evaluate the whole '39th game' thing.

It wouldn't have to be a 39th game. Let's suppose United played their home game against Liverpool in New York, and their away game in Singapore. What difference would it make to the the rest of the league, and the league table?

Big difference to the home match-going fans of course, but it could work.
It's a fecking stupid idea.
 

Sam.G

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What does that make the whinging/keeping schtum Liverpool fans?

More to the point, what is the stance of the "not stupid" Liverpool fans? Are they suggesting to wait and see? Or worried this is just a honeymoon period? Or something else?

You're very quick to call people stupid. I'm curious to hear where the smart money is here.
I dunno where the smart money is. Ask the smart people.

I guess my point is/was that Liverpool fans are damned if they do or don't. If Liverpool fans were moaning about the new owners, the tone of Samuel's article would be 'why don't the Liverpool fans wait and see' rather than 'honeymoon period'.

It is not a pop at Martin Samuel or anyone else, as it's merely the nature of the beast. I just think it's a fairly stupid beast.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I dunno where the smart money is. Ask the smart people.

I guess my point is/was that Liverpool fans are damned if they do or don't. If Liverpool fans were moaning about the new owners, the tone of Samuel's article would be 'why don't the Liverpool fans wait and see' rather than 'honeymoon period'.

It is not a pop at Martin Samuel or anyone else, as it's merely the nature of the beast. I just think it's a fairly stupid beast.
I think that's true. Especially in this place ;)

Nonetheless, if there's any truth to your new owners embracing this overseas 39th game concept (and Samuels seems adamant he's reporting a quote verbatim) then I think that should be of real concern to all Liverpool fans.

Doesn't mean theyr'e necessarily going to be terrible owners but Samuels is spot on in pointing out that a similar quote from the Glazers that early on in their tenure would have caused ructions amongst United fans.
 

Sam.G

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Doesn't mean theyr'e necessarily going to be terrible owners but Samuels is spot on in pointing out that a similar quote from the Glazers that early on in their tenure would have caused ructions amongst United fans.
This maybe true but what is Samuel (or you) trying to get at here?

It is more a reflection of H&G's tenure than gullibility on anybody's part. In my view anyway.

I really don't get the notion that fans from different clubs react differently to different situations. They simply don't. Maybe that wasn't the point and I have missed it entirely of course.
 

Pogue Mahone

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This maybe true but what is Samuel (or you) trying to get at here?

It is more a reflection of H&G's tenure than gullibility on anybody's part. In my view anyway.
How has Werner talking up the "39th game" got anything to do with H&G? Sure the previous owners were unpopular but does this mean that the new owners are beyond reproach, no matter what kind of shite they come out with?

I really don't get the notion that fans from different clubs react differently to different situations. They simply don't. Maybe that wasn't the point and I have missed it entirely of course.
Are you serious? You don't think the Liverpool and United fans reacted differently when their clubs were first bought out by American owners?
 

Sam.G

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How has Werner talking up the "39th game" got anything to do with H&G? Sure the previous owners were unpopular but does this mean that the new owners are beyond reproach, no matter what kind of shite they come out with?
It's all noise from Werner at the moment. There is no point in reacting to it right now. Let's see what transpires and if it goes any further, of course it won't be popular.

Are you serious? You don't think the Liverpool and United fans reacted differently when their clubs were first bought out by American owners?
Yes, I am serious. The American ownership comparisons are circumstantial. Utd was a very well run, very successful club with nothing to gain by being in the hands of new owners.

Liverpool had been run relatively poorly by financially hamstrung owners. We had nothing to lose. Well, as it turns out, we did. But I personally couldn't have foreseen that.

Fans are no different. Anywhere. From any sport.
 

Sam.G

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I want you to climb on top of a table in The Albert before next home game and say that :D

Of course they are wrong - but I've not heard a Liverpool fan admitting it before.
In defence of those Liverpool fans, and of Utd fans who think similarly, it's easy to believe you are somehow different when you are cleaning up all before you.

It's in times of adversity you pin your colours to the mast. And those colours are generally cut from the same cloth as all other sports fans the world over.
 

CnutOfAllCnuts

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In defence of those Liverpool fans, and of Utd fans who think similarly, it's easy to believe you are somehow different when you are cleaning up all before you.

It's in times of adversity you pin your colours to the mast. And those colours are generally cut from the same cloth as all other sports fans the world over.
I've actually not heard United fans claim that to the same degree as Liverpool fans do.
 

CnutOfAllCnuts

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What is it you normally say?

Let's agree to disagree...

ALthough I find it amusing that you have experienced hearing United fans claiming to be different and better fans than other fans as often as you've heard Liverpool fans claiming it.
 

Sam.G

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What is it you normally say?

Let's agree to disagree...
Always happy to do that in a futile debate. Was just about to mention it myself..

ALthough I find it amusing that you have experienced hearing United fans claiming to be different and better fans than other fans as often as you've heard Liverpool fans claiming it.
I'll even let you squeeze in this last word!
 

M'n'M

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Are you serious? You don't think the Liverpool and United fans reacted differently when their clubs were first bought out by American owners?
True, perhaps if we'd donned our yellow and green scarves we'd still have G&H. ;)
 

holdsteady

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It's been a year.

Meanwhile, in the States, Henry's Red Sox have just absolutely crumbled and thrown away a monstrous lead to miss the playoffs. Since then, Henry has gone absolutely mental. He's cut ties with Terry Francona and is attempting to sell off his star General Manager Theo Epstein, the brains behind their entire resurgence. The other day Henry called into a local radio station and went off on everyone and said he never wanted to sign one of their outfielders.

He's not the mastermind that the scousers think he is. Boston is not thrilled with him:

John Henry is worth $1.1 billion, which this year put him on the Forbes 400 for the first time. He comes in at No. 375, tied with another estimable sports owner, Tom Benson of the New Orleans Saints. They’re ranked just ahead of Redskins owner Daniel Snyder.

Check out the list: It’s full of clown sports owners.

Along with the Red Sox [team stats], John Henry owns the marketing rights to zero-time NBA champion LeBron James, some soccer team in England, and a really big boat, which comes in handy when his beloved ballplayers get cranky.

On the surface, Henry appears to be a mover, a shaker, a Master of the Universe, but in a rambling radio appearance last Friday, the principal owner of your Red Sox wanted to make one thing clear:

He’s virtually powerless.

It looks good on the masthead and on the business card, but apparently “principal owner” of the Sox is a ceremonial thing, like Duchess of York or Dupe of Liverpool. He put up most of the money, he got the best parking space, but it seems Henry never gets his way.


Let’s see if we have this straight: Henry insists he wanted Theo Epstein to stay on as general manager, but Epstein, who had a year left on his contract, is all but gone now, off to Chicago. Henry says he didn’t want to fire manager Terry Francona, and the Red Sox held an option on Francona’s contract for two more seasons. But somehow Francona is gone now, too.

Oh, but now we learn that Henry didn’t love every member of the 2011 Red Sox. That Carl Crawford character out in left field? As Tony Montana said of Omar Suarez just before they tossed him out of the helicopter: Never liked that guy.

The only difference is Tony never saw Omar again. Crawford is under contract for six more seasons. The former Tampa Bay Ray appeared to lack confidence during his first season in a Sox uniform, and now this ought to help. Crawford knows the guy signing his paychecks, the strange man sitting right there in the front row next to the dugout, never wanted him here. The guy who did? Off to Chicago.

But don’t let it bother you, Carl. Just relax and play your game. And if you’re really upset, how about a new iPad or something?

“Anyone involved with upper management with the Red Sox will tell you that I personally opposed that,” Henry told 98.5 FM’s Michael Felger and Tony Massarotti last Friday afternoon. “This was driven, and Theo will tell you this, this was driven by our baseball people.”

Aside from the obvious — that the Crawford signing makes little baseball sense but plenty of NESN sense — Henry’s contention is hard to believe. We recently asked someone in Red Sox upper management about the Crawford signing, and Larry Lucchino said on WEEI it was a “collective” decision and implied they were all in agreement.

Not so, said Henry, who would like us to believe he was dead-set against the signing but powerless to stop it. So the top man in the Red Sox organization doesn’t appear interested in sharing the blame or defusing the situation. No, sir. You thumb through any good business manual, and you’ll probably find it in Chapter 1: In time of crisis, point fingers. Blame underlings. Try not to get anything on you.

Some people have said he helped himself in his first solo radio appearance, which is true only if his goal was to become a laughingstock. He claimed, among other things, that he didn’t see “one player not busting his butt” in September. This was after we learned Josh Bucket and the boys were indulging in fried chicken and beer during games.

When reminded that the players “whined” about having to play a day-night doubleheader after returning from a road trip, Henry said, “They had reason to whine . . . They were exhausted.”

Reason to whine? This was Friday, Aug. 26, two days before Hurricane Irene ripped through the Northeast. More than 40 people died in the storm that weekend, including nine New Englanders. But look at the bright side: At least they didn’t have to play a doubleheader after a night game on the road.

Henry tried to placate his exhausted players with a boat ride and really cool headphones, and the players responded with the worst September collapse in team history. So was he furious? On the contrary, two weeks later, the owner was still offering excuses, citing “rain delays” and “hurricanes” among the obstacles that his team just couldn’t overcome.

For 10 years, Henry mostly stayed in the background, and now we know why. When the quiet man finally spoke up, it wasn’t about setting the record straight or defending the honor of the Red Sox [team stats] organization. It was about looking out for No. 1 — or should I say No. 375.

You need a billion dollars to make the Forbes 400 these days. Clearly, it doesn’t require any class or common sense at all.
John Henry a bumbling billionaire - BostonHerald.com
 

Cal?

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John Henry owns the marketing rights to zero-time NBA champion LeBron James, some soccer team in England... :lol:
 

SteveJ

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No comment on the article as a whole, as I'm clueless about baseball, but the following is awful journalism - it's like blaming United players for a poor result after a long air journey, and comparing them unfavourably to those who experienced the Munich disaster:

When reminded that the players “whined” about having to play a day-night doubleheader after returning from a road trip, Henry said, “They had reason to whine . . . They were exhausted.”

Reason to whine? This was Friday, Aug. 26, two days before Hurricane Irene ripped through the Northeast. More than 40 people died in the storm that weekend, including nine New Englanders. But look at the bright side: At least they didn’t have to play a doubleheader after a night game on the road.