Liverpool on brink of being sold (now actually sold) (what could possibly go wrong?)

Bearded but no genius

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According to the AP, though, it was a bit different:

Henry plans to be thrifty with Liverpool
Last Updated: Monday, October 18, 2010 | 9:38 AM ET Comments4Recommend7
The Associated Press
New owner John Henry watches Liverpool FC on Sunday. New owner John Henry watches Liverpool FC on Sunday. (Michael Regan/Getty Images)

American tycoon John Henry has cautioned that his Boston Red Sox ownership group will not throw cash at reviving the fortunes of fallen English giant Liverpool.

The urgency of the rebuilding task facing Henry was underlined Sunday, two days after New England Sports Ventures completed its 300-million pound ($487 million US) takeover of Liverpool, when the team lost 2-0 at neighbour Everton. The result kept the Reds marooned in the Premier League's relegation zone on just six points from eight games.

But Henry has warned that NESV will be frugal owners, quipping: "I don't have 'Sheikh' in front of my name."

"When we spend a dollar, it has to be wisely," he said. "We cannot afford player contracts that do not make long-term sense. We have to be smart, bold, aggressive."

So if manager Roy Hodgson wants funds to strengthen a squad that is currently heading toward the second tier, the commercial department will have to get busy.

"When we looked at Liverpool, the first thing that struck was there are opportunities here to really build a winner," Henry said. "The revenue potentials around the world — it is a global football club — and especially with the financial fair play rules, it is really going to be revenue that drives how good your club can be in the future. That is one thing that we think we are good at."

Red Sox fans across the Atlantic can testify to that.

"When we arrived at the Red Sox [in 2002], the New York Yankees were a juggernaut and it wasn't that much of rivalry," Henry said. "We turned it into a rivalry where we have gone toe-to-toe with the Yankees even though they have got a much higher revenue.

"They keep going up but we have gone up faster. We have got to the point where if you look at our wins and losses against the Yankees over the last nine years, we are almost dead even … If you think Boston is somehow on a par economically with New York, that's simply not true."

Financial fair play rules from European soccer's governing body are designed to end an era of so-called "financial doping" by teams with wealthy owners, like Premier League rivals Manchester City and Chelsea.

The UEFA regulations limit the ability of owners to subsidize losses incurred by paying high transfer fees and salaries — Manchester City lost 121 million pounds ($196 million) last season — and make them only spend what they earn from soccer-related income if they want to play in European competitions.

Owners will be allowed to cover losses of up to a maximum of 45 million euros ($63.8 million) over an initial three-year spell, starting in 2012. In the three years from 2015, just 30 million euros ($42.6 million) in losses can be covered.

"There is no constraint on us going after revenues, you have to be smart about it," Henry said.

Would buying into football have been less appealing without UEFA president Michel Platini's rules?

"Yes, it would be less, but it exists," Henry said.

Despite warming to the theme of thrift, Henry insisted that he hadn't taken the 18-time English champions from previous owners Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr. at a bargain price.

The heavily indebted duo, ousted in a bitter court battle last week, plan to pursue legal action after claiming that NESV conspired with club directors to undervalue Liverpool to force a sale.

"There were big financial issues [at Liverpool]," Henry said. "I know some people are saying this was a cheap price. There is no way we look at this as a cheap price."

NESV, which has cleared most of Liverpool's debts, is backed by 17 investors, but they shouldn't be expecting an instant return on their Anfield outlay.

"Our partners are extraordinary, some are extremely wealthy," said NESV chairman Tom Werner. "They are not in this to make money. That's not why they got involved in this. I'm trying to think of one partner who joined for financial reason."

So why buy Liverpool?

"I don't think any thinking individual buys a sports franchise these days — or an English football club — to make money," Henry said. "Maybe a few, but they should have their head examined. It's about competing at the highest level in the world's largest sport for us that's why we are here."

The idea of acquiring Liverpool was first planted in Henry's mind two years ago by Mike Dee, chief executive of the Miami Dolphins who had received a sale prospectus prepared by banks.

"I thought 'Oh, oh, we have enough headaches,"' Henry recalled. "This seemed like a lot of work and I just didn't think about it again."

It was back in January at a baseball owners' meeting in Phoenix that Henry's wife, Linda Pizzuti, started him thinking about a Liverpool bid.

"My wife was more serious than I was," he said. "She is not really a sports fan. She is a business fan. I don't know why she was so keen. I'll have to ask her."


Henry plans to be thrifty with Liverpool

------------------

So they're all bold and brash and amazing, yet keep emphasizing their own frugality.

Happy days are here again!
 

M'n'M

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Yup, and it's only fair on Liverpool that we don't include the £20m spent on Aquilani by Benitez.

Afterall, it skews their figures and he doesn't even play for them.
The continual use of the £20m fee is skewering enough.
 

Bearded but no genius

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The continual use of the £20m fee is skewering enough.
Do you think John Henry is playing you lot a bit, with his "we bought this to win! yeah! hooray gooooooo TEAM!!!!!!" stuff which is mixed in with "I'm not going to spend a cent".

You lot have been through the mill (no pun intended) so much that you'll latch onto anything positive, so he keeps everyone at home happy with "I'm not wasting money on those stupid foreigners" and yet he gets you lot salivating with "WIN WIN WIN WIN YES!!!!!!!!!!!" stuff.

I know it is still the honeymoon, but for example the story in the USA on the ESPN ticker in the USA was "Sox owner Henry will not spend to improve struggling English soccer team".

In the UK it seems to be that he and his 17 secret agents are the great salvation.
 

Excal

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quotes from Henry:
Yeeeah. You need to understand that baseball team owners have, for pretty much all of the last century, been bigger liars than poker players at tax time about how much money they make. MLB has long had a Congressionally-granted antitrust exemption that prevents them from being sued for being a monopoly. To justify this exemption, they make a habit of downplaying how much money they make off of punters. Donald Fehr, head of the MLB Players Association, famously said, "You go through The Sporting News for the last 100 years, and you will find two things are always true. You never have enough pitching, and nobody ever made money."

It is an utter lie.

Meanwhile, here are some fachts:

Red Sox tickets are among the most expensive in baseball.

Beer is more expensive at Fenway Park than at any other park in baseball.

Parking is more expensive at Fenway Park than at any other park in baseball.

The cost of taking a family of four to a game (two adults and two children at average ticket price, parking, four hot dogs, four sodas, two beers, two baseball caps and two programs) is $334.78 in Boston, the highest in the league. (MLB average is $194.98.)

The Red Sox are highly profitable.

What it all adds up to is that the Red Sox succeed (in a business sense) by taking a team in a mid-sized city and soaking their fanatical, working-class fanbase for every dollar they can squeeze out of them.

Enjoy your new owners, scousers.
 

M'n'M

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Do you think John Henry is playing you lot a bit, with his "we bought this to win! yeah! hooray gooooooo TEAM!!!!!!" stuff which is mixed in with "I'm not going to spend a cent".

You lot have been through the mill (no pun intended) so much that you'll latch onto anything positive, so he keeps everyone at home happy with "I'm not wasting money on those stupid foreigners" and yet he gets you lot salivating with "WIN WIN WIN WIN YES!!!!!!!!!!!" stuff.

I know it is still the honeymoon, but for example the story in the USA on the ESPN ticker in the USA was "Sox owner Henry will not spend to improve struggling English soccer team".

In the UK it seems to be that he and his 17 secret agents are the great salvation.
It's nice of you to speak for us all. I know you like to think it as it gives you material but not every Liverpool fan is "salivating" about anything, and we're certainly not heralding them as saviours. Most are just glad to get rid of the debt and curious as to how it is going to pan out. But if it helps you get through the day thinking that then good for you.

Yes, imagine using actual transfer fees.
You should try it.
 

B20

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Do you think John Henry is playing you lot a bit, with his "we bought this to win! yeah! hooray gooooooo TEAM!!!!!!" stuff which is mixed in with "I'm not going to spend a cent".
I am not naive enough to believe they have no hopes of profit. But he spoke truly when he said you'd have to have your head examined if you think that's gonna happen anytime soon.

What I think their ambition is, is that they are here to try and make a winning team. I believe that was true even for G&H to some extent. They were just immoral lying liars who ended up ruining the club with their irresponsible leveraged buyout and subsequently proved themselves to be conniving conmen when they realised the game was up.

I also think they have confidence that they can generate the revenue necessary for that to happen. What I don't know is how wellfounded that confidence is. They have a very good track record, but it's clear this team does need a saltwater injection and if they are not seeing it, they certainly need to get up to speed.

But frankly, I think not coming out saying 'we'll sign snooky doo!' like G&H did is just good sense. That's what Birmingham did and they ended up signing feck all. Whereas Chelsea and City just bit the bullet and paid over the odds because everyone knows they have the money.
 

B20

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You lot have been through the mill (no pun intended) so much that you'll latch onto anything positive, so he keeps everyone at home happy with "I'm not wasting money on those stupid foreigners" and yet he gets you lot salivating with "WIN WIN WIN WIN YES!!!!!!!!!!!" stuff.
I don't think anyone is salivating. We're encouraged by the positive signs, a good track record and no leveraged debt, and otherwise we're just waiting on what they actually do before passing further judgement. We've been bitten by G&H's promises once and they will be put under the loop soon enough if signs are showing they are failing to come good on their promises.
 

sincher

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ALBERTO AQUILANI - The truth about his transfer fee. How much will he REALLY cost? | Liverpool-Kop

Not a lot of difference but when you're lazy or inaccurate it sort of puts all your other figures in doubt.
Further Add ons include:

* €300k for every year Liverpool qualify for the CL from 2010/11 to 2014/15.

* €250k every time the player reaches 35 appearancs; 70 appearances; 105 appeances and then 140 appearances.

* €1m the first time Liverpool either wins the Premier League or Champions League by 30 June 2014.

* 5% of any future transfer fee paid to Roma.

Well at least that should amount to feck all on top of the £18m (:lol:)

It's a bit like spending on £18m on Owen Harg... feck.
 

decorativeed

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It wasn't actually.

Transfer League Table 2003 - 2011 | League Tables

Liverpool net spend from 2003 to today is 98m. United's is 45. 45 + 80 = ...



I'm not saying "completely ignore it", I'm saying we should bare in mind that the Ronaldo sale was a freak occurance - a world record ffs, and therefore has a heavy effect on net spend, which as my previous example showed can lead to misleading interpretations.

Take Alonso or Masch out of the equation and things don't change much.



You dropped almost 10 points from the previous season.
I said before the Ronaldo transfer. That means you ignore everything after, as your point is that we should omit Ronaldo. Well then we omit everything after Ronaldo. And Liverpool have still spent more. The Glazers didn't take over in 2003 either, so your starting point is wrong.



I'm not saying to ignore it either. I'm just saying it doesn't really skew things in our favour. It just makes the figures more embarassing for Liverpool. Before Ronaldo, you'd spent more since the Glazers. After Ronaldo, you'd spent considerably more since the Glazers. Even before the Glazers, dating back to 1992, you've spent more.

Oh, and Alonso and Mascherano account for £50m in transfers. Yes, because that's an irrelevant amount of money. :wenger:



Seasons vary. In 08/09 we got a big points total but noone would argue our team was better than the lower point scoring sides of 06/07 or 07/08. That was just an easy year in the league, with no great teams - you should know, it's the only year Liverpool have looked like coming close to a title. 09/10 was a much more competitive year across the board, with the mid-level teams taking points off the big boys at will.
In the interest of saving everyone a lot of wasted time and effort going over this argument time and time again, I've added all the figures, comparisons and summaries of United and Liverpool's spending since SAF took over here in 1986 to a new thread: https://www.redcafe.net/f7/official-transfer-comparison-thread-311572/
 

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For the record on Rafa and his alleged old Spanish saying, my Spanish wife says "who is this fellow, where does he come from, why is he making my countrymen look like complete idiots?"
 

M'n'M

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So between £18m and £22.45m, according to that 'Liverpool Kop' website.

You're actually pulling me up for that? :lol:
No it'll be exactly £18m as none of the add-ons will apply.

Not that that is anything to be proud of, just making a point.

Both sets of fans do the same, use the maximum when referring to players the other teams have bought but use the minimum when referring to sales to back up their own argument.
 

Dumbstar

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I know it is still the honeymoon, but for example the story in the USA on the ESPN ticker in the USA was "Sox owner Henry will not spend to improve struggling English soccer team".
I'd rather have an American say he'll spend nothing on us....and lie, than have an American tell us he'll spend heavily on us....and lie!! :cool:

Anyway, I've yet to come across an LFC fan who is anything other than cautiously optimistic but wary of what Henry et al have got planned for us. Me included.
 

SiYuan

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Further Add ons include:

* €300k for every year Liverpool qualify for the CL from 2010/11 to 2014/15.

* €250k every time the player reaches 35 appearancs; 70 appearances; 105 appeances and then 140 appearances.

* €1m the first time Liverpool either wins the Premier League or Champions League by 30 June 2014.

* 5% of any future transfer fee paid to Roma.

Well at least that should amount to feck all on top of the £18m (:lol:)

It's a bit like spending on £18m on Owen Harg... feck.
:lol::lol: Smart feckers
 

MarylandMUFan

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Yeeeah. You need to understand that baseball team owners have, for pretty much all of the last century, been bigger liars than poker players at tax time about how much money they make. MLB has long had a Congressionally-granted antitrust exemption that prevents them from being sued for being a monopoly. To justify this exemption, they make a habit of downplaying how much money they make off of punters. Donald Fehr, head of the MLB Players Association, famously said, "You go through The Sporting News for the last 100 years, and you will find two things are always true. You never have enough pitching, and nobody ever made money."

It is an utter lie.

Meanwhile, here are some fachts:

Red Sox tickets are among the most expensive in baseball.

Beer is more expensive at Fenway Park than at any other park in baseball.

Parking is more expensive at Fenway Park than at any other park in baseball.

The cost of taking a family of four to a game (two adults and two children at average ticket price, parking, four hot dogs, four sodas, two beers, two baseball caps and two programs) is $334.78 in Boston, the highest in the league. (MLB average is $194.98.)

The Red Sox are highly profitable.

What it all adds up to is that the Red Sox succeed (in a business sense) by taking a team in a mid-sized city and soaking their fanatical, working-class fanbase for every dollar they can squeeze out of them.

Enjoy your new owners, scousers.
While I hate the Red Sox (and Yankees) these numbers are somewhat skewed. Fenway Park is downtown with very limited parking so of course that is going to be expensive. The stadium is very small so they havel imited gate receipts so they charge more for tickets. Why would a family of 4 buy 4 sodas and 2 beers as well as hats?

Seems kind of silly to me.
 

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No it'll be exactly £18m as none of the add-ons will apply.

Not that that is anything to be proud of, just making a point.

Both sets of fans do the same, use the maximum when referring to players the other teams have bought but use the minimum when referring to sales to back up their own argument.
Except if I went for the max figure it would have been £22.45m.

I went with the widely reported (and fairly accurate) figure of £20m.

But if it makes you feel better about Rafa's transfers by trying to discredit the comments over something so trivial then go ahead.
 

Murphman

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This thread is going to bite your manc arses big style. Secretly you're absolutely GUTTED we at least have the chance now to move forward without this massive debt to service, how John Henry and co. perform remains to be seen, you are still in the firing line and if you don't realise that then you're totally with the fairies. But in this thread what do we get, Krafty still rambling on about Rafa's spending and his take on it (as if anybody bothers reading it all over again and again) and Jason just rambling on generally.

Talking of Jason, Jase could you run me through again your utter disgust that Steven Gerrard was threatened physically if he left Liverpool and that's the only reason he stayed? Imagine that eh, a footballer being threatened, good job that won't happen in your world, or Wayne's. :nono:
 

charleysurf

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This thread is going to bite your manc arses big style. Secretly you're absolutely GUTTED we at least have the chance now to move forward without this massive debt to service, how John Henry and co. perform remains to be seen, you are still in the firing line and if you don't realise that then you're totally with the fairies. But in this thread what do we get, Krafty still rambling on about Rafa's spending and his take on it (as if anybody bothers reading it all over again and again) and Jason just rambling on generally.

Talking of Jason, Jase could you run me through again your utter disgust that Steven Gerrard was threatened physically if he left Liverpool and that's the only reason he stayed? Imagine that eh, a footballer being threatened, good job that won't happen in your world, or Wayne's. :nono:
It's ON!
 

Kraftwerker

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This thread is going to bite your manc arses big style. Secretly you're absolutely GUTTED we at least have the chance now to move forward without this massive debt to service, how John Henry and co. perform remains to be seen, you are still in the firing line and if you don't realise that then you're totally with the fairies. But in this thread what do we get, Krafty still rambling on about Rafa's spending and his take on it (as if anybody bothers reading it all over again and again) and Jason just rambling on generally.

Talking of Jason, Jase could you run me through again your utter disgust that Steven Gerrard was threatened physically if he left Liverpool and that's the only reason he stayed? Imagine that eh, a footballer being threatened, good job that won't happen in your world, or Wayne's. :nono:
Rantastic Murph. Are you drunk?

Some of the old threads from your last takeover were bumped last week. I'd be very embarrassed if I were you Murph. Some of the stuff you were ramming down our throats back then should make you cringe and think twice before doing it again.

But people like you never learn. So deluded and so easily manipulated.
 

Ole's_toe_poke

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This thread is going to bite your manc arses big style. Secretly you're absolutely GUTTED we at least have the chance now to move forward without this massive debt to service, how John Henry and co. perform remains to be seen, you are still in the firing line and if you don't realise that then you're totally with the fairies. But in this thread what do we get, Krafty still rambling on about Rafa's spending and his take on it (as if anybody bothers reading it all over again and again) and Jason just rambling on generally.

Talking of Jason, Jase could you run me through again your utter disgust that Steven Gerrard was threatened physically if he left Liverpool and that's the only reason he stayed? Imagine that eh, a footballer being threatened, good job that won't happen in your world, or Wayne's. :nono:
So your yanks are better than ours?
 

alastair

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Rantastic Murph. Are you drunk?

Some of the old threads from your last takeover were bumped last week. I'd be very embarrassed if I were you Murph. Some of the stuff you were ramming down our throats back then should make you cringe and think twice before doing it again.

But people like you never learn. So deluded and so easily manipulated.
I get why he's excited. But you'd have thought after last time he might show a little bit more caution in his adulation of new owners. Perhaps after Liverpool win the title his post might be somewhat more reasonable.
 

Murphman

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Rantastic Murph. Are you drunk?

Some of the old threads from your last takeover were bumped last week. I'd be very embarrassed if I were you Murph. Some of the stuff you were ramming down our throats back then should make you cringe and think twice before doing it again.

But people like you never learn. So deluded and so easily manipulated.
haha, no not drunk Krafty, not yet anyway. My sig back then was 'significantly richer than youse' so you'll forgive me if I was ever so slightly taking the piss a lot of the time and I'll forgive you for not realising it.

I'm under no illusions these lads may be wolves in sheeps clothing but having done due diligance I'll make one statement which isn't a piss take, having had our fingers so badly burned everybody is in a state of paranoia about new owners, if these guys are Hicks and Gillette Mk2 we really are on the road to oblivion, we're still in serious trouble even now. Everything points to them being a different sort of animal, I've even sounded them out on a personal level and from what I can find out about them Tom Hicks Mk2 they most certainly aren't. I think/hope...

Having now hopefully got the chance to escape the nightmare of spiralling debt crippling the club and moving forward I repeat, it's wrong, all these LBO merchants are a cancer and I wouldn't wish it on anybody, even United. I hope the Glazers feck off 'cos they could easily drag you to where we were and beyond if things go wrong for you.
 

Bearded but no genius

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This thread is going to bite your manc arses big style. Secretly you're absolutely GUTTED we at least have the chance now to move forward without this massive debt to service, how John Henry and co. perform remains to be seen, you are still in the firing line and if you don't realise that then you're totally with the fairies. But in this thread what do we get, Krafty still rambling on about Rafa's spending and his take on it (as if anybody bothers reading it all over again and again) and Jason just rambling on generally.

Talking of Jason, Jase could you run me through again your utter disgust that Steven Gerrard was threatened physically if he left Liverpool and that's the only reason he stayed? Imagine that eh, a footballer being threatened, good job that won't happen in your world, or Wayne's. :nono:
LOL!

It's ON!
 

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haha, no not drunk Krafty, not yet anyway. My sig back then was 'significantly richer than youse' so you'll forgive me if I was ever so slightly taking the piss a lot of the time and I'll forgive you for not realising it.

I'm under no illusions these lads may be wolves in sheeps clothing but having done due diligance I'll make one statement which isn't a piss take, having had our fingers so badly burned everybody is in a state of paranois about new owners, if these guys are Hicks and Gillette Mk2 we really are on the raod to oblivion, we're still in serious trouble even now. Everything points to them being a different sort of animal, I've even sounded them out on a personal level and Tom Hicks Mk2 they most certainly aren't. I think...

Having now hopefully got the chance to escape the nightmare of spiralling debt crippling the club and move forward I repeat, it's wriong and I wouldn't wish it on anybody, even United. I hope the Glazers feck off 'cos they could easily drag you to where we weer and beyond if things go wrong.
But you weren't taking the piss. You were deadly serious, especially about your brand new 70,000 seater stadium that was definitely going to be built.

Coming in here, shouting your mouth off 'you're all secretly gutted, our yanks are better than your yanks' shows you probably haven't learnt your lesson.

I doubt many United fans are really that gutted about your ownership situation. Could have been alot better for you, could have been alot worse.

I don't think many would really want to see Liverpool go totally down the shitter, so a chance at some stability is hard to begrudge (despite how unbearable fans like you become at the first glimmer of hope).