LeftyBlaster
Full Member
We've turned so many corners we're actually going round in circles.Turned a corner
We've turned so many corners we're actually going round in circles.Turned a corner
Is this thread being repeated on Dave or something?We've turned so many corners we're actually going round in circles.
It'll stop soon. Hopefully. When Jose takes over.Is this thread being repeated on Dave or something?
What examples? He plays young players.Nonsense,nobody is brainwashed by the media.Examples in the past are there,most recent ones are at the start of this season,so we can comment on it way before join us,no need to wait and see what he will do here. If he changes his way,it would probably enforced by people above him.
Those 2 clubs are at mid table so I don't know why you see that as worth a mention. We came above Chelsea who were in a relegation fight and sacked their coach. We finished above Liverpool who also changed manager and has barely been above 8th all season. Hurrah! And people act like we have played young players all season. The narrative has changed again. The young players filled in here and there when we had players out. We have hardly gone the bulk of the premiership season playing young players. How many league games has each "young player" even started?Winning the fa cup and finishing above Chelsea, Liverpool and possibly one of city or Arsenal whilst bringing through young players wouldn't be all that bad, obviously nowhere near good enough for a club with our ambitions but acceptable still. Were in transition and have a promising young team so hopefully its the beginning of something, add a trophy to that and LVG's time here can be remembered in a positive light. We are all very happy with the young players coming through, we cant have it all our way and expect to be challenging for the title with young players, not in this super competitive era. I think its the emergence of the young players that has been the one big positive of the season. I really hope we can finish in the top 4 and win the fa cup, we would be happy and LVG can leave with his head held semi high.
Except, most that cite this don't (simultaneously) cite which players he's overlooked that subsequently wowed the world and showed up Jose's "folly" in overlooking youth. Frankly, I don't see Loftus-Cheek (the player most use as the stick to beat Jose with) as having taken the world by storm. Similarly, I don't think anyone rated Varane as a world-beater when Jose started bringing him in. People mention Lukaku, but both he and Jose have clarified what happened. He wanted to be a regular starter and both he and Jose felt he wasn't at that level yet for Chelsea, so he departed - although Jose wanted to retain him. Similar situation with KDB. Also, given that Chelsea won titles without them and looked great while doing it, can't really blame him, can you?Nonsense,nobody is brainwashed by the media.Examples in the past are there,most recent ones are at the start of this season,so we can comment on it way before join us,no need to wait and see what he will do here. If he changes his way,it would probably enforced by people above him.
We should actually try hiring someone from the top tier and see where we go from there. That's what we're meant to be isn't it? A top tier club? LVG is a level below Mourinho/Pep et al and guess where we are? A level below the top - which reflects in our team sheet and our league standing.The way people talk here, you do think they've been to the future and can confirm the next manager will be successful. What if the next one is also a failure? We continue to fire managers until we get lucky?
Better than sitting on our arses when the building is on fire hoping it puts itself out.The way people talk here, you do think they've been to the future and can confirm the next manager will be successful. What if the next one is also a failure? We continue to fire managers until we get lucky?
As opposed to what? Keeping a failing manager because sacking people is mean?The way people talk here, you do think they've been to the future and can confirm the next manager will be successful. What if the next one is also a failure? We continue to fire managers until we get lucky?
Sure he does,he trusts youth players so much,he also never parked a titanic,its all made up,its all lies. Examples? Most recent,if he had any trust in youth,hell if he had any trust in reserves,he would still be a Chelsea manager but what you can do when there is no one better then Ivanovic and Matic on 20% of their prev season (for example).What examples? He plays young players.
If you persistently employ people who can't do the job you've employed them for then you tend to sack them and get somebody else. It's kind of how it works in any job in any field.The way people talk here, you do think they've been to the future and can confirm the next manager will be successful. What if the next one is also a failure? We continue to fire managers until we get lucky?
When has being OK become acceptable?.It's also shortsighted to still blame a manager for having one bad month in a whole competition. December is the only month that we have been really bad resultswise, the other months have been OK. Look at where we would have been now if that month would have been the same as the other months. We would have had 6-9 points more and would have been at least 3rd. With a team full of 18 year olds, that's not bad. Yes, at times the matches have been boring, but also Barcelona was not created in one day: these players have been playing in the exact same system from age 12 and had years and years of practice. The same thing you see with Rashford and Fosu-Mensah, they have played in LvG's system in the youth under Warren Joyce for almost 2 years and now slot very well. Schneiderlin, Darmian and all other summer buys just had 8 months.
In the end, we should always aim to return to title contenders, but we have had to do a massive rebuild. Now the dust clouds are fading, we can see a new team, built around Martial, Rashford etc. starting to form. Exciting times!
This squad needs disruption imo. Also, winning the FA cup isn't a major achievement. Arsenal won it twice and they've blown the league same as allways.I am still in the sack him now camp but I wouldn't be surprised if people moved over to the evaluate him at the end of the season camp. A pretty definite way to disrupt a squad is to sack the manager and to the person saying the teams we have beaten are palace villa and everton, palace is also the team we face in the final, so I think its pretty fine if LVG has a way to beat them again.
Those statistics are damning. I don't agree with people who say "this is the worst United side in X years", Moyes' team was probably worse but LVG has had more time and money without much improvement.We've scored 1 goal or less in 23 league games this season. We scored zero in 10 of those 23, 10! I agree, he is worse than Moyes, by a long shot. Moyes did not have a chance to build his squad. Moyes inherited a champion team that half of them felt they were bigger than what he was capable of doing with them. Rightly so I'm sure, but given the fact that LVG has been here longer, spent more, and put players in his desired position for that player, he is a failure.
When Moyes got sacked, most people put it down to him not being good enough. At least Moyes could be put down as a one off, LVG has lowered expectations and might still be here for another year. It's almost as if he's made it acceptable.How exactly has he done more damage than Moyes? Even if we finish 5th, we still have Europa League, it beneath us but it's still something. Did people forget that Moyes finished 7th?
He has not done better than Moyes though.
How is the potential high? I can't see Lingard, Darmian or Jones ever being good enough for a top European side and Memphis and Martial are no better than when they first came here. The team's level has been dragged down enough that kids can come in, without any coaching from him and outshine the players we have.
He's given out a few games to young players but anyone can do that. I don't see any improvement in them to justify the appalling performances we've put in.
I know on paper winning the FA cup isn't a huge deal but I went absolutely crazy after that Martial go in the semis and I think everyone did, I think winning the FA cup would be a really good moment. Its also important for the development of a lot of these players, they need to get used to winning, its like when we were winning I think the league cup final, convincingly, so subbed on Vidic and Evra so they knew what being a Manchester United player meant. Most of these players have never won any trophies with us and they need to realise its a minimum expectation, it could give them a lot of confidence.This squad needs disruption imo. Also, winning the FA cup isn't a major achievement. Arsenal won it twice and they've blown the league same as allways.
Those statistics are damning. I don't agree with people who say "this is the worst United side in X years", Moyes' team was probably worse but LVG has had more time and money without much improvement.
When Moyes got sacked, most people put it down to him not being good enough. At least Moyes could be put down as a one off, LVG has lowered expectations and might still be here for another year. It's almost as if he's made it acceptable.
recently he has saidLVG has lowered expectations and might still be here for another year. It's almost as if he's made it acceptable.
The last one is debatable but the living in the past comment is risible coming from a man who peaked when I was 2.recently he has said
'Fans are living in the past'
'Expectations are too high'
'Havnt had the quality of players to work with'
Or maybe that's exactly what he meant? Expecting him to take us to the top = living in the pastThe last one is debatable but the living in the past comment is risible coming from a man who peaked when I was 2.
It's relative to the club, Spurs are normally outsiders for CL qualifcation who always fall just short additionally they never challenge for the title. They've played some brilliant football too. Compared to us, we may win the FA Cup and finish fourth, but it hasn't been enjoyable and we haven't lived up to expectations.If we win the FA Cup and finish 4th and Spurs don't win the title would you say we've had a better season than Spurs ? Bizarrely I guess the answer will be that we will have had.
That would be an interesting press conference: "The fhans musht remember, I am a bit shit".Or maybe that's exactly what he meant? Expecting him to take us to the top = living in the past
We played well against WHU and in our last game.I have changed my vote. Not because we qualified for a final, but that he finally has the team playing in a way which brings excitement to my veins. If he keeps this style of play till the end of the season, I can be persuaded.
To be fair, we've played well in more than 2 games this season. That those decent performances have been the exception to the rule, and not the rule itself has been really disappointing.We played well against WHU and in our last game.
That's 2 games out of roughly 50 games, this season?
Are you seriously forgetting all the other games we have played the most boring football seen at OT, for decades?
This is exactly why I turned against LVG (before December I was a huge LVG supporter because I believe we needed possession football, to eventually beat Barcelona, but as it stands we cant even beat teams like Norwich, Stoke, Bournemouth, etc).It's the conviction (or strong belief anyway) that he isn't the right man to take us any further - which is largely based on what we've served up on the pitch during his two seasons in charge.
The answer is simply not enough to prove a point. Ancelotti in particular has only accepted offers from clubs where the cash was always flowing. Of course that's not something to hold against him, his man management skills are outstanding and he's achieved to label himself, throughout the years, as the safest choice for a squad full of superstars and egocentric owners/presidents.For the record, which academy player has Ancelotti trusted and brought through? Or Blanc? Or any of the assorted managers cited as alternatives to Mourinho? NB: The question is specific to academy graduates as that's the stick being used to beat Mou. Most of them too buy the most talented youngsters - and once they do, they play them.
Their cup form is seperate from league form though. You can never really gauge Cup semi finals and finals. Wembley + adrenaline etc got Everton pumped. That was their game of the season, nothing else to play for if they lost.For me, it's absolutely damning that Everton - who are utterly without the swagger of Martinez's early days - dominated the second half our our latest match. That wasn't Everton being excellent - it was us displaying one of our fundamental weaknesses under van Gaal yet again.
When Hiddink took over Chelsea we were 11 points ahead of them. We're now 12 points ahead of them. Just saying.He's a glorified interim manager. And still, proper interims like Gus and Rafa managed to outperform him.
Cup competitions are completely different. Wigan won the FA cup beating City, the season they got relegated. Its the old magic of the FA cup I suppose.For me, it's absolutely damning that Everton - who are utterly without the swagger of Martinez's early days - dominated the second half our our latest match. That wasn't Everton being excellent - it was us displaying one of our fundamental weaknesses under van Gaal yet again.
... living in the past comment is risible coming from a man who peaked when I was 2.
post of the year..The last one is debatable but the living in the past comment is risible coming from a man who peaked when I was 2.
Truly inspiringrecently he has said
'Fans are living in the past'
'Expectations are too high'
'Havnt had the quality of players to work with'
VP89 said:Their cup form is seperate from league form though.
ravelston said:When Hiddink took over Chelsea we were 11 points ahead of them. We're now 12 points ahead of them.
Well that's my opinions f*cked. I'll see myself out...prath92 said:Cup competitions are completely different. Wigan won the FA cup beating City, the season they got relegated.
Great post. Not a single point I disagree with... It astounds me that most can't see this...So, i believe that Mourinho is still an "enemy" for many United fans. And although we bounced back with one of Fergie's best United sides, i guess there are still some grudges held. It's understandable to a point but it can not be used as an excuse not to appoint Mourinho when the only alternative you have is Moyes or not be content with him when the obvious alternative is another season of LvG and then Giggs.
Well that's my opinions f*cked. I'll see myself out...
*shuts door quietly*
For what it's worth, I thought the same. I didn't think we played well and our players didn't look as motivated as they should be given it was a semifinal in a competition we haven't won for some time. Our first half wasn't as good as most thought it was IMO. Obviously people are right in saying cup games are different, but Everton's lack of form and confidence were evident during the first half and they became better during the second half, once they realised that we aren't that much better.For me, it's absolutely damning that Everton - who are utterly without the swagger of Martinez's early days - dominated the second half our our latest match. That wasn't Everton being excellent - it was us displaying one of our fundamental weaknesses under van Gaal yet again.
Post of the year? Now I've peaked.post of the year..
It's relative to the club, Spurs are normally outsiders for CL qualifcation who always fall just short additionally they never challenge for the title. They've played some brilliant football too. Compared to us, we may win the FA Cup and finish fourth, but it hasn't been enjoyable and we haven't lived up to expectations.