I wish the video posted in here started with that. That is where the goal is made for me.
Maguire wasn't at fault for the goal
- Thread starter thepolice123
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He absolutely was at fault. The ball was near him, he could have cleared it easily if he didn't switch off.
Saying that, De Gea could (and should) have been more aggressive there and not allow the goal to happen.
Saying that, De Gea could (and should) have been more aggressive there and not allow the goal to happen.
They can (and are) both be at fault of that goal, DDG and Maguire.
Maguire should have put is foot across the ball to either clear or concede a corner. De Gea should have come off his line as soon as the ball came into the box and sweeped it up as soon as Maguire failed to clear.
Too timid, both of them.
Maguire should have put is foot across the ball to either clear or concede a corner. De Gea should have come off his line as soon as the ball came into the box and sweeped it up as soon as Maguire failed to clear.
Too timid, both of them.
If Lindelof didn't leave the front post we wouldn't have had an issue at all.
If de Gea wasn't rooted to his line and scared to get hurt like a little school girl then he could have easily got there before the striker.
Many issues with that goal, but Maguire definitely isn't the biggest culprit.
At least this image will come in handy when my hypothetical children are old enough to start asking awkward questions like "what's a fanny?"
What?!? You don’t let the ball run across your box when you don’t know what’s behind you. He should be kicking that in to row Z or at least throwing everything at it to stop it going across. Just knock it out of play.
When it’s passed him which it should never do then he’s DeGea should be taking all of that but come on. Maguire is the first and worst mistake there.
When it’s passed him which it should never do then he’s DeGea should be taking all of that but come on. Maguire is the first and worst mistake there.
Unreal isn't it? why is he turning his back on little 5'7 Kluivert?! imagine big Pete or VDS in that situation
they'd be taking the ball and the man. goal keepers should never be turning their back in any situation - it just shows he's lost his bottle unfortunately.
It's a consequences of mistakes and brainless defending, but the bolded one is basics.
It's not a question of who has acted worse in the situation, rather than prevent a goal and Maguire is someone that should be held accountable for his actions.
You can't say it's Maguires fault or it's Williams' fault. It's both and neither.
We were outnumbered and overloaded in the box. It was 4 v 3 in the box. One defender can only mark so many people and cover so much space. One of their attackers would be in space. If this happens enough times in a game, eventually the ball will fall to the attacker in space.
You can see in the clip our entire midfield marking nobody in the centre of the pitch. I'm not even sure what formation we were playing by that point, a diamond? If so, McTominay needs to be dropping in between the centre backs there. Or, VdB needs to be picking up the RWB. I don't say that to blame McTominay or VdB it's the entire defensive organization. There never seems to be a plan, a structure, leadership, organization. Nobody seems to know what our shape should be and who should be marking who.
We were outnumbered and overloaded in the box. It was 4 v 3 in the box. One defender can only mark so many people and cover so much space. One of their attackers would be in space. If this happens enough times in a game, eventually the ball will fall to the attacker in space.
You can see in the clip our entire midfield marking nobody in the centre of the pitch. I'm not even sure what formation we were playing by that point, a diamond? If so, McTominay needs to be dropping in between the centre backs there. Or, VdB needs to be picking up the RWB. I don't say that to blame McTominay or VdB it's the entire defensive organization. There never seems to be a plan, a structure, leadership, organization. Nobody seems to know what our shape should be and who should be marking who.
DDG is more at fault but any CB in that situation just plays it safe and puts it our for a corner.
Yes. If not 100%
Defenders are facing their own goal, the keeper have to communicate if he wants them to kick it out of play and even then, a shite, weak cross like that should be handled by the keeper
Williams and de gea for sure
Of course it's mainly keeper's fault, even if you attach a bit to the defenders. Most keepers sweep that up easily. Not like it's the 20th time he's stayed frozen on his line. Heck, Ederson probably doesn't even concede that first goal! Crazy dude that he is. It's not the quickest cross and there's enough time to come out and clear it before Angelino, or with Angelino if need be. I'm fed up with DDG, but then again I've been for a good while now.
He slows down as if he's expecting De Gea to claim it. It doesn't look like that's communicated though. I'd have rather he kept running at it and just hoofed it into the stands for a corner.
Maguire should shout for the keeper to come if that's his intention. De Gea should have been alert and not glued to his line anyway, but he's probably never going to stop doing that. Williams should have sensed that Maguire was marking two players and to get tight to Kluivert behind him who he couldn't see. Or give him a shout at least.
But De Gea should still be winning that ball regardless of communication. Kluivert taps it in on the edge of the 6 yard box after sprinting from the edge of the 18 yard box. De Gea just had to step forward and dive on it or boot it clear.
I'd peg it all on 3 of them than anyone one individually. A defence is a unit. Communication is key, and I don't think Maguire tells De Gea to come, nor does it appear Williams communicates anything about Kluivert. It was a shambles from all of them.
Maguire should shout for the keeper to come if that's his intention. De Gea should have been alert and not glued to his line anyway, but he's probably never going to stop doing that. Williams should have sensed that Maguire was marking two players and to get tight to Kluivert behind him who he couldn't see. Or give him a shout at least.
But De Gea should still be winning that ball regardless of communication. Kluivert taps it in on the edge of the 6 yard box after sprinting from the edge of the 18 yard box. De Gea just had to step forward and dive on it or boot it clear.
I'd peg it all on 3 of them than anyone one individually. A defence is a unit. Communication is key, and I don't think Maguire tells De Gea to come, nor does it appear Williams communicates anything about Kluivert. It was a shambles from all of them.
Lindelof was more at fault as he passed the ball to the oppostion to set them on the attack. Pogba failed to tackle back and then Lindelof left his man who Maguire followed. The deflection then took it past Maguire whilst Williams let his man go who scored. DDG is most at fault for me because despite all that it's meat and drink for the keeper to take that ball.
State of that goal
Day by day that defense looks like a collection of 5 blokes picked up from the pub and asked to play together rather than a unit. No communication, no strategy and absolutely no command. This is the weakest link in the squad by far.
Not to mention he literally walks off and leaves 2 strikers standing in the middle of the box to mark somebody further away from goal, leaving maguire 2v1.
It's utterly bonkers.
No, the goalkeeper should manage it, since he’s the one that has the full view of the situation. Maguire hasn’t got eyes in the back of his head. Gk should organise his defence, it’s just weak goalkeeping. Silent as a mouse then stands there while a player roams in to his six yard area.
The state of this goal, my god. I can’t stop replaying the video, it’s like watching a car crash in slow motion.
to be fair i still think it comes of the arm of the player which means the goal stood have been ruled out, but maguire has to just clear that, he has no idea what is behind him, quote you here from a young age if in doubt clear it out, he does that we dont concede that goal, De gea has to do better in this scenario as well, needs to be more aware of the surroundings, qucker of his line and be alot braver.
De Gea really bottles that challenge. There's no way Oblak or Neuer don't sweep that up.
Maguire should have booted it into row Z, DDG should have clattered into Kluivert and caught the ball.
Coulda woulda shoulda aside, the reality is nobody took responsibility for it and we are 3-0 down.
Coulda woulda shoulda aside, the reality is nobody took responsibility for it and we are 3-0 down.
He shows zero positional awareness and understanding of the episode. If we judge them individually, I'd say that De Gea's part was worse. Still, Maguire should've sprinted and cleared it – he started to sprint after the ball had changed the direction and then decided to not to for whatever reason. However, Maguire shouldn't switch off the moment he misses the ball – if he moves forward he'd be able to block the ball, for example (seeing as De Gea already rushes forward* trying to make a save). Sadly, he doesn't seem to be able to make quick decisions when the situation suddenly changes around him & to even physically make any sudden movements like sprints and turns.
If we rate him not only as an individual, but also as a supposed captain, organizer and leader of our defense...
*5 minutes too late
If we rate him not only as an individual, but also as a supposed captain, organizer and leader of our defense...
*5 minutes too late
Only United under Woodward could be paying the highest wage in world football to a goalie who can't even do some of the most basic elements required of the role.
I do wonder if the defence would look a bit more assured if dodgy Dave missed 10-15 games. He's the one constant in that backline over all these years.
I do wonder if the defence would look a bit more assured if dodgy Dave missed 10-15 games. He's the one constant in that backline over all these years.
Fair play. I lambasted Maguire last night because it looked like a shocking leave. But looking at it from the angle it’s hard to blame Maguire due to that huge deflection.
Nevertheless, that was absolutely woeful from De Gea. It’s not been the first time he’s been worried about getting hurt. As a keeper he has to come and take everything out by making himself huge to block the shot.
Yeah he pussied right out it looks like... but to be fair he should never have been put into that position.
The whole point of the thread is to highlight that the ball was deflected out of his path so he couldn't have got to it. Watch the video.
Maguire can easily clear the ball though and probably doesn't realise where Kluivert is so there is some blame for sure
Also DDG clearly doesn't call for it - but that is a lot of the issue, general lack of communication
Also DDG clearly doesn't call for it - but that is a lot of the issue, general lack of communication
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I think Maguire is the least at fault over De Gea and Williams. He obviously can't see Kluivert, and De Gea and Williams can. But still, some sort of gesture from Maguire to indicate he's letting it come across him for De Gea to claim would have been useful. Particularly as Maguire runs towards the ball, and then stops. It looks like he wants to clear it, and then changes his mind.
Williams has to shout, or track Kluivert. He does nothing.
It's poor, and I'd say Maguire is the least culpable, but still somewhat responsible. The deflection makes it hard for him to judge though, I suspect. Hard to tell if he could actually get across and kick it out, but he doesn't look that far away from it.
It's just awful. I thought the goals in Istanbul were bad, but this might just be worse.
I don't really know what people expected Maguire to do there. There was no way he could get to that.
I disagree actually. Watching that clip a few times and I feel he had enough time to at least get a foot on that and put it out for a safe corner.
So you think he just thought 'ahh feck it, it'll work out somehow'.
Exactly, baffling and not the only time his done that. It's like he refuses to learn from his mistakes cause Fernandes will bail him out.
I think he leaves it to De Gea because he wasn't up for taking the risk. But a stronger mind (and captain) would have taken the responsibility to himself and at least made all effort to put it out of play.
Granted, De Gea should also have been prepared for the leave and be ready to collect it, no matter how many players he has to clatter. But De Gea is also mentally weak. As is Lindelof and AWB and Shaw and Jones and ugh I give up.
100% agree and for a captain to duck that responsibility is really, really shameful. We brought him in to lead because we had too few leaders. Over and over he has failed at that.
The reason De Gea has a decision to make in the first place is because Maguire decides to leave the ball without having a clue whats going on behind him. When did letting a ball roll across goal without knowing whats behind you become an acceptable way of defending? De Gea was weak, but his failure was in attempting to cover for Maguire's mistake.
Edit: The ball definitely is in his path, watch the 2nd bounce after the ball gets deflected, he's nowhere close to full stride and the ball is literally next to him...
Edit: The ball definitely is in his path, watch the 2nd bounce after the ball gets deflected, he's nowhere close to full stride and the ball is literally next to him...
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Seriously, lads? He slowed down deliberately and left it behind. I know he's slow but the ball was easy to boot in the stands or just nod it for a corner. The ball didn't travel at ferocious speed either. It's blatantly obvious he left it for the keeper, without zero awareness of who is behind him.
Watch the video. As soon the ball went wide he walked into the box and from there on he didn't look around him, probably expecting Williams to follow his man or De Gea to come and collect it. It was ball watching at its finest. Going by his impression he didn't knew where Kluivert was before seeing the ball in the back of the net.
Having watched it a few times yeah Maguire got caught out by the deflection not much he could have done maybe if he throws himself at it he looks better but I think the ball would have already passed him. DeGea and Williams on the other hand could have done better especially DeGea a top keeper should get to that and put his body on the line.
If Maguire wasn't as flat footed as he is and as slow as he is he'd have cut out that cross (that was weak). We've been sold a an average Centre Back for which Leicester City must be having a good laugh about. Need a world class CB (which Maguire will never be) to play alongside him. How he's captain is beyond me too when you have Fernandes playing. Does nothing to inspire and in the last minutes he was out on the left wing when he should have just made a nuisance of himself up top.
Oh, I did watch the video multiple times – and he certainly could've. And he also could've done something after the fact, which I also specified in my comment.
He notices the deflection, sprints (if you can call it that) towards the ball after that and then slows down back again, covering the ball from the attacker behind him, leaving the ball for De Gea.